Terbolizard was arrested for DUI this weekend??

[MrZach]

DUI laws are unneeded. Stiffer penalties for property damage and personal injury would be just as much of a deterrent.

That's total BS and you know it. People don't drink and drive because they think the penalty isn't stiff enough if they have an accident or injure or kill someone so it is an "acceptable risk." They drink and drive because they are idiots who exercise poor judgment.

It has been shown numerous times that the stiffer the drinking and driving laws get, there is a very correlated reduction in alcohol related MV accidents.

 

[CountryboyRonPaul]

A car is an extremely dangerous and deadly piece of machinery. I have no problem with there being restrictions and regulations on it. Even with all that, automobile accidents are one of the leading causes of death in America. So... we should make it even less regulated, making the roads even LESS safe is what you're saying, right? What planet are you living on?

During the 4 years I was in high school, I ran out of fingers to count the number of friends I had die in automobile accidents - alcohol was involved in the majority of them, and not always on the part of my friends. One of my closest friends was in a coma for almost 6 months and now has severe brain damage, limited motor function and speech capability.

So... what you're basically arguing is that we should wait until AFTER people are dead and brain damaged...?

When a police officer pulls someone over and arrests them for a DUI - they are SAVING LIVES.

Get educated. Ger real.
http://www.statisticstop10.com/Causes_of_Death_Young_Adults.html
http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/causes.html
http://www-ksl.stanford.edu/people/kpfleger/auto/causes_of_death.html
http://www.usroads.com/journals/p/rilj/9712/ri971204.htm
http://www.disastercenter.com/cdc/
http://www.weitzlux.com/motorvehiclecrashes/leadingcauseofdeath_960.html

Regulations are your answer to safety? Why are you in Ron Paul's camp.

Sacrificing Liberty for Safety guarantees you will receive neither.

Do you think Regulations are needed for the 2nd Amendment too?



IMO, a DWI should be a $200+ ticket, and brought to jail for the night. That is what the law was like until MADD started lobbying, and now 3rd time offenders are treated the same as Murderers.

IF someone is killed in the accident, charge them with Manslaughter.

 

[MrZach]

DUI is a "pre-crime." No one has actually been harmed.

This is ludicrous BULL SHIT!!!

It isn't PRE-CRIME. Charging someone with a DUI isn't charging them with "potentially harming someone" - it is charging them with violating their LICENSE AGREEMENT!!!

Did you sign your driver's license? Then you signed an agreement to follow the state's laws on drinking and driving. Grow up.

 

[MrZach]

Regulations are your answer to safety? Why are you in Ron Paul's camp.

Sacrificing Liberty for Safety guarantees you will receive neither.

Do you think Regulations are needed for the 2nd Amendment too?

IMO, a DWI should be a $200+ ticket, and brought to jail for the night. That is what the law was like until MADD started lobbying, and now 3rd time offenders are treated the same as Murderers.

IF someone is killed in the accident, charge them with Manslaughter.

You aren't sacrificing any liberty by regulating driving automobiles. Stop making ridiculous comparisons. It is a VOLUNTARY AGREEMENT. You sign your driver's license, you agree to comply by the regulations. If you don't get a driver's license and you don't operate a motor vehicle - you aren't "losing your liberty" so get the hell over it.

Next thing you'll be saying anyone should be allowed to fly a plane - thats another piece of machinery that requires a license and has strict regulations on it. Where does it stop?

 

[DealzOnWheelz]

Driving isn't a right. It is a privilege. You have to get a driver's license to drive. You don't HAVE to drive - you voluntarily drive, therefore you voluntarily submit yourself to the regulations on driving. You cannot operate a motor vehicle without a license, therefore if you voluntarily obtain said license (at which point you are basically signing a contract to obey the regulations) and operate the massive and highly deadly piece of machinery and violate your license agreement - you can be CRIMINALLY punished however the State that granted your the license or privileged of operating your vehicle on their roadways sees fit.

I happen to be a HUGE fan of DUI laws. In fact, I think they should be must stricter.

You also have to get a license to be married does that mean marriage is not a right??

You don't have to get married you voluntarily get married, therefore you voluntarliy submit yourself to the regulation on marriage. You cannot get marriedwithout a license(in some states), therefore if you voluntarily obtain said license(at which point you are basically signing a contract to obey the regulations) and don't allow the State control of your children(thats what happens when you sign a marriage license your child becomes a property of the state)- you can be criminally punished however the state that granted you the license or privilege of being allowed to marry in their jurisdiction.


I happen to be a STAUNCH opponent of laws that infringe on ones civil liberties as well as constitutional liberties. The DUI laws destroy your life under the assumption that you would have hurt somebody sooner or later.

I would be much more inclined to support a law stating that if you are caught under the influence your keys will be taken for the night and you must walk home BUT IF YOU HURT ANYONE INCLUDING KILLING AND INCLUDING YOURSELF WHILE DUI THEN YOU GET AN EXTREMELY HARSH SENTENCE

 

[MrZach]

CountryboyRonPaul - I'm pretty sure that Ron Paul hasn't been calling for the abolition of driver's licenses and regulations on operating motor vehicles... When you find the quotes on him discussing such, please enlighten me.

In the meantime, read Adam Smith - I mean ACTUAL Adam Smith. It'll blow your mind...

 

[Paulitical Correctness]

Obviously there's going to be grey area, as with all things regarding the police and the "laws" they uphold.

 

[Eponym_mi]

They drink and drive because they are idiots who exercise poor judgment.

Yeah, and once you remove them from the pool of drivers, that problem is solved. Drinking isn't a crime (driving or not)...damaging property or injuring someone is the crime...and the real problem is lack enforcement of those laws. Besides, DUI laws are blatantly unconstitutional.

 

[MrZach]

You also have to get a license to be married does that mean marriage is not a right??

You don't have to get married you voluntarily get married, therefore you voluntarliy submit yourself to the regulation on marriage. You cannot get marriedwithout a license(in some states), therefore if you voluntarily obtain said license(at which point you are basically signing a contract to obey the regulations) and don't allow the State control of your children(thats what happens when you sign a marriage license your child becomes a property of the state)- you can be criminally punished however the state that granted you the license or privilege of being allowed to marry in their jurisdiction.


I happen to be a STAUNCH opponent of laws that infringe on ones civil liberties as well as constitutional liberties. The DUI laws destroy your life under the assumption that you would have hurt somebody sooner or later.

I would be much more inclined to support a law stating that if you are caught under the influence your keys will be taken for the night and you must walk home BUT IF YOU HURT ANYONE INCLUDING KILLING AND INCLUDING YOURSELF WHILE DUI THEN YOU GET AN EXTREMELY HARSH SENTENCE

You don't have to have a license to get married. You have to have a license to be recognized by the state as married. You are perfectly free to get married by a church and call yourselves married and enjoy a married life not recognized by the state.

Also, I'm not aware of the statistics of how many people were accidentally killed by a marriage... Maybe you could share...

Again - a DUI violation isn't a crime because you potentially committed a crime. It is a violation of contract. When you sign your driver's license, you are signing a contract to not drive under the influence. You violate that contract, you get what's coming to you. THINK before you open your mouth.

 

[DealzOnWheelz]

That's total BS and you know it. People don't drink and drive because they think the penalty isn't stiff enough if they have an accident or injure or kill someone so it is an "acceptable risk." They drink and drive because they are idiots who exercise poor judgment.

It has been shown numerous times that the stiffer the drinking and driving laws get, there is a very correlated reduction in alcohol related MV accidents.

The same can be said about any law

MORE ENFORCEMENT ALWAYS MEANS LOWER RATE OF SAID INCIDENT TO ENFORCE

SO that means you would be fine with cops being allowed to search anyone walking the street to see if they have an illegal firearm

The founders were for FREE TRADE TRAVEL WITH ALL ENTANGLING ALLIANCES WITH NONE

 

[Paulitical Correctness]

You don't have to have a license to get married. You have to have a license to be recognized by the state as married. You are perfectly free to get married by a church and call yourselves married and enjoy a married life not recognized by the state.

Also, I'm not aware of the statistics of how many people were accidentally killed by a marriage... Maybe you could share...

Again - a DUI violation isn't a crime because you potentially committed a crime. It is a violation of contract. When you sign your driver's license, you are signing a contract to not drive under the influence. You violate that contract, you get what's coming to you. THINK before you open your mouth.

Let's just bring this back while we're at it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

 

[MrZach]

Yeah, and once you remove them from the pool of drivers, that problem is solved. Drinking isn't a crime (driving or not)...damaging property or injuring someone is the crime...and the real problem is lack enforcement of those laws. Besides, DUI laws are blatantly unconstitutional.

Blatantly unconstitutional, huh? It is unconstitutional to enforce a contract? Really... Whatever you say, bub...

PS - I'm pretty sure that automobiles weren't around when the constitution was written, so I'm not exactly sure you all get off saying the constitution regulates the automobile. Last time I checked, the constitution outlines the powers of the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT and allows states to have the power to regulate the rest. You're arguing the US constitution in light of state laws. Brilliant one there... You're so smart...

 

[neil]

Per http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics.html "There were 16,885 alcohol-related fatalities in 2005 – 39 percent of the total traffic fatalities for the year."
That's a lot of individuals personal liberty being violated.

 

[pinkmandy]

CountryboyRonPaul - I'm pretty sure that Ron Paul hasn't been calling for the abolition of driver's licenses and regulations on operating motor vehicles... When you find the quotes on him discussing such, please enlighten me.

In the meantime, read Adam Smith - I mean ACTUAL Adam Smith. It'll blow your mind...

Um, actually...he has said he doesn't like licensing in the medical profession, he'd prefer not to have it all- not for midwives or doctors. This was when asked a question about midwives and birth choices. Consider yourself enlightened.

These threads can be fun. I really think some people show where they stand in the freedom movement, what their core ideals are. When I see people who just aren't getting it, well, that reminds me of politicians who don't get the revolution and media people trying to figure out where the money comes from...seems some of our own supporters don't "get" the movement, either. For those who don't understand, being for freedom means innocent until proven guilty and anti-police state. Hope I didn't blow your cover.

Being so harsh on someone because of a DUI, in a situation we know nothing about IS judgmental and and some of the responses are borderline fascist.

 

[MrZach]

Let's just bring this back while we're at it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Oh brother, lol... grow up and argue the issue and stop distracting onto topics that are totally non germane.

People are perfectly free to put whatever they want into their bodies as far as I'm concerned. It is when they are unable to control their motor functions and go out in public hurling massive hunks of metal at high speeds down the roadways that I begin to get concerned.

 

[DealzOnWheelz]

You don't have to have a license to get married. You have to have a license to be recognized by the state as married. You are perfectly free to get married by a church and call yourselves married and enjoy a married life not recognized by the state.

Also, I'm not aware of the statistics of how many people were accidentally killed by a marriage... Maybe you could share...

Again - a DUI violation isn't a crime because you potentially committed a crime. It is a violation of contract. When you sign your driver's license, you are signing a contract to not drive under the influence. You violate that contract, you get what's coming to you. THINK before you open your mouth.

It is a contract and so is your W2 does that mean it is right???

The income tax is illegal and unconstitutional but because you fill out your w2 you sign a contract saying you will pay it

And as far as the marriage license without one NONE OF YOUR PENSION AND OTHER POSSESSIONS AND ASSETS CAN BE GIVEN TO YOUR CHILDREN or WIFE IF YOU DIE


When a Church files 501 c 3 they are signing a contract to not endorse politicians for office among other things and they become tax exempt yet by the constitutions definition of seperation of church and state they should be tax immune

 

[CountryboyRonPaul]

You don't have to have a license to get married. You have to have a license to be recognized by the state as married. You are perfectly free to get married by a church and call yourselves married and enjoy a married life not recognized by the state.

Also, I'm not aware of the statistics of how many people were accidentally killed by a marriage... Maybe you could share...

Again - a DUI violation isn't a crime because you potentially committed a crime. It is a violation of contract. When you sign your driver's license, you are signing a contract to not drive under the influence. You violate that contract, you get what's coming to you. THINK before you open your mouth.

You can also drive a car without a license, I did it for two years before I turned 16.

Ron Paul calls for less regulations at all levels of government. No, He has never specifically stated DWI laws...

However, he has called for the end of the Drug War, and I think this should tell you a little bit about how he values individuals to make their own decisions about health and safety, rather than letting the government tell you what you can and can't do with your life.

Blatantly unconstitutional, huh? It is unconstitutional to enforce a contract? Really... Whatever you say, bub

Signing a contract and paying the government under the threat of force to use YOUR OWN property is blatantly unconstitutional.

 

[FireofLiberty]

The real question is will licenses or laws like DUI laws stop people from driving or driving drunk. The answer, as has been proven time and time again, is no.

By the same token, someone could easily fly a plane without a license if they wanted to. Not having a license won't stop them if they're bound and determined.

By the way, Michael Badnarik has long argued you don't need a license to drive. In fact, he doesn't have a drivers license (yet still drives) for this reason.

 

[Paulitical Correctness]

Oh brother, lol... grow up and argue the issue and stop distracting onto topics that are totally non germane.

People are perfectly free to put whatever they want into their bodies as far as I'm concerned. It is when they are unable to control their motor functions and go out in public hurling massive hunks of metal at high speeds down the roadways that I begin to get concerned.

Exactly!

A "DUI" doesn't necessarily mean someone is speeding down the roadways and unable to control their motor functions.

You're making ignorant generalizations.

 

[MrZach]

Um, actually...he has said he doesn't like licensing in the medical profession, he'd prefer not to have it all- not for midwives or doctors. This was when asked a question about midwives and birth choices. Consider yourself enlightened.

These threads can be fun. I really think some people show where they stand in the freedom movement, what their core ideals are. When I see people who just aren't getting it, well, that reminds me of politicians who don't get the revolution and media people trying to figure out where the money comes from...seems some of our own supporters don't "get" the movement, either. For those who don't understand, being for freedom means innocent until proven guilty and anti-police state. Hope I didn't blow your cover.

Being so harsh on someone because of a DUI, in a situation we know nothing about IS judgmental and and some of the responses are borderline fascist.

I'm so enlightened by Dr. Paul's comments on the medical profession and how they OBVIOUSLY apply to driving a vehicle.

Everyone of you idiots keeps making the same challenge to the DUI thing - it is pre-crime, blah blah blah... I'm arguing that it is not - it is the violation of a license agreement that you receive upon signing for and receiving your license.

Can you argue with that? No, you cannot. If you sign a contract - whether it be with another individual or the state - you sign a contract and should be bound to that contract. IF you're really opposed to this crap, put your money where your mouth is and revoke your own license.

As soon as you do that, I'll shut up.