Study: Welfare pays more than minimum wage in most states

[CaptLouAlbano]

What I am more interested in is: Do you advocate an end to the SS?

Or would you, like Tod, only want it to end after a list of XYZ qualifications, exceptions, and prerequisites occurs?

My utopian view would eliminate it immediately. But I am a realist and I find little value in pondering over the ideal, when it has no chance of happening. Realistically, what will occur is phase out, restructuring, privatization, etc.

 

[Melissa]

Yes and the socialists will all point to this and say "See, our wage system is corrupt because the private sector isn't even paying the minimum of what our poor are receiving".

Omg this is so true..they posted this on my local news stations and everyone that was not against it just kept repeating...hey this should show why minimum wage laws should be higher...ugg ugg ugg..

 

[helmuth_hubener]

It just totally undermines your position. In this thread you're saying rah rah rah! slash! slash! slash! burn! burn! burn! let's kick all the families on welfare out on the street yesterday! If not sooner!

And that's fantastic! I'm all for that!

But compared with the "mainstream" view certainly it looks like a pretty reckless position to take. What about those depending on it? Etc. And so for a normal person hearing you call for an "immediate" end to welfare, an obvious question to ask would be:

So, what about Social Security? Do you want to eliminate that immediately as well? Won't eliminating it immediately cause problems?

And if you then answer "Oh, no, no, no, don't worry. I don't want to eliminate that so immediately. That would be crazy! In fact, I don't want to eliminate Social Security at all until we've gotten rid of most of the other waste, gov't employees, etc.", then you've just undermined your position. There's no consistency left in your message. Any practical argument for not immediately eliminating the SS (people will starve in the streets, etc.) applies ten times over for welfare. So then you no longer have a leg to stand on.

 

[Eagles' Wings]

How do answer the Elders who say they have paid in for decades? Are they to just be cut off?

 

[juleswin]

Think of the multiplier you get for that welfare payment. We know 100% of that money will be used in the community and will be taxed to generate even more tax revenue for the city. From my calculation, one gets 110% return for every dollar spend on welfare unlike 40% from military spending. So more welfare spending and this sluggish economic condition would be firing on all cylinders in months

Oh yea, its the sort of idiotic economic nonsense I learnt from reading liberal websites (I am looking at you DU)

 

[helmuth_hubener]

My utopian view would eliminate it immediately.

Cool!

But I am a realist and I find little value in pondering over the ideal, when it has no chance of happening. Realistically, what will occur is phase out, restructuring, privatization, etc.

I think we're probably on the same page on this. But I personally happen to like political theory and working out how things should be. It's fun for me.

And I also think there is value in communicating correct and true ideas to people. The more people are exposed to, and come to believe in, the ideas of liberty, the more likely we are to get it.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

How do answer the Elders who say they have paid in for decades? Are they to just be cut off?

Yes! Obviously! I answer them: you were stolen from! Don't steal from me!

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Give 'em the ax!

All of 'em.

The breeding class......

And the Surgery class. Kick them all off. No favorites.

Right?

 

[tod evans]

All of 'em.

And the Surgery class. Kick them all off. No favorites.

Right?

Absolutely!

If ya' can do it at the same time I'm good with that.

 

[Eagles' Wings]

Social Security pfft , I just want my money back, since I am a Great Patriot I ask for no interest, and will call it even.

love it - plus rep

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Absolutely!

If ya' can do it at the same time I'm good with that.

Really? I am surprised. I never read you say that before. I thought you were dead-set against killing the SS until and unless other welfare were eliminated first. Of course simultaneous elimination of everything would be fine and dandy by me, too!

Well, bygones be bygones and a hearty:

AMEN!

 

[lib3rtarian]

[h=1]Cloward–Piven.
[/h]

 

[tod evans]

Really? I am surprised. I never read you say that before. I thought you were dead-set against killing the SS until and unless other welfare were eliminated first. Of course simultaneous elimination of everything would be fine and dandy by me, too!

Well, bygones be bygones and a hearty:

AMEN!

My issue has always been one of priorities, the fact that these government programs and jobs need to end has never been in dispute.

 

[Sola_Fide]

"Welfare recipients in Hawaii get the most benefits, according to Tanner, at $29.13 per hour — or $60,590 pre-tax income annually."

That's a solid paycheck right there.

 

[Seraphim]

It's above the median income! Damn right it's solid!

I stated in the WHEN WILL YOU FIGHT thread that the only thing that will change ANYTHING is refusal to pay the Federal Income Tax.

Nothing short of a tax revolt will due.

That's a solid paycheck right there.

 

[austrian_theorist]

What about these recipients' morals? I understand that some would feel as if they're suckers if they don't take advantage of these benefits, but what about self-respect, dignity and theft? I know I would never want to accept such benefits, especially considering that I want to have a strong character and constitution.

Is anyone else with me on this one?

 

[helmuth_hubener]

How do answer the Elders who say they have paid in for decades? Are they to just be cut off?

And how do you answer the Mothers with young children who are dependent on welfare, who ask you: "How am I to feed my children? And where are we to live? Are we just to be cut off?"

Tod's answer and mine: Yeah, you bet you're going to be cut off!

It's the only decent answer.

 

[Tod]

That's racist.



Planning ahead is considered racist?

By ANDREW J. COULSON, GUEST COLUMNIST

Published 10:00 pm, Wednesday, May 31, 2006

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/opinion/article/Planning-ahead-is-considered-racist-1204942.php

Are you salting away a little money for your retirement? Trying to plan for your kids' education? If so, Seattle Public Schools seems to think you're a racist.

According to the district's official Web site, "having a future time orientation" (academese for having long-term goals) is among the "aspects of society that overtly and covertly attribute value and normality to white people and Whiteness, and devalue, stereotype and label people of color."

Huh?

Not all the district's definitions of racism (and there are lots of them) are so cryptic. The site goes on immediately to say, "Emphasizing individualism as opposed to a more collective ideology" is another form of "cultural racism."

Have you ever read "Out of Africa"? In that book, the author wrote that she found that Africans had a very different notion of justice than Europeans. Under the African system, if someone was injured, another party had to pay compensation for the injury whether they were at fault or not so that the injured person was not without.

 

[Carlybee]

Yes but they are owned. If a natural disaster hits their city or town, they have to wait for the government to do anything...no welfare check..no money...they have to wait for the FEMA truck before they can eat. And @austrian_theorist...I've known people who will max out their unemployment benefits even if they are perfectly capable of working. The work ethic is dying in this country.

 

[Deborah K]

If we ended the welfare state, we might actually see some REAL CHANGE. No more slow crawl into the darkness.

They will never end the welfare state. They're using it to help collapse this system into the new one they are setting up for us.