Student suspended after refusing to step on Jesus

[Sola_Fide]

That is blatant bullshit.

Jesus Christ certainly IS the God of the Universe to Mormons and He also has a Father, who is God the Father. And He certainly DID atone for the sins of the world.

Mormons believe that God is a loving Father who wants His children to have the same life and blessings that He has- they are NOT polytheists in the sense that there are millions of Gods who run the Universe.

They also believe that we all existed in a previous state and we are ALL brothers. Lucifer, who was the Son of the Morning, wanted to force mankind to be like him- so he fell in grace and became Satan. Jesus Christ, who is perfect, said: Not my will but THY will be done.

Mormons do not believe that Jesus is the ONLY God that exists, like the Bible says. Mormons are polytheists, therefore they are not Christians.

 

[Anti Federalist]

”Faculty and students at academic institutions pursue knowledge and engage in open discourse. While at times the topics discussed may be sensitive, a university environment is a venue for such dialogue and debate.”

Unless you disagree, then we throw your ass out of the class you paid top dollar for.

 

[jmdrake]

Whatever. I already conceded that SDA's defend a Trinitarian view now. It is investigative judgement that forever separates Seventh Day Adventism from Christianity.

The problem is that you claim that we defend it "now". SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTISTS HAVE ALWAYS HELD THE TRINITARIAN VIEW! It's a lie to claim or imply otherwise.

And just because you are ignorant of the fact that Hebrews teaches that Jesus lives to make intercession for us, doesn't make that truth non Christian.

 

[jmdrake]

Did Calvin really believe that? This would be sort of funny considering how many people I know that admire Calvin...

http://articulifidei.blogspot.com/2009/05/john-calvin-vs-emotional-exegesisjesus.html

John Calvin:
As we stated yesterday, Michael may mean an angel; but I embrace the opinion of those who refer this to the person of Christ, because it suits the subject best to represent him as standing forward for the defense of his elect people. He is called the mighty prince, because he naturally opposed the unconquered fortitude of God to those dangers to which the angel represents the Church to be subject. We well know the very slight causes for which terror often seizes our minds, and when we begin to tremble, nothing can calm our tumult and agitation. The angel then in treating of very grievous contests, and of the imminent danger of the Church, calls Michael the mighty prince.

The 18th century American Calvinist theologian Jonathan Edwards went even closer to what would become the Seventh Day Adventist view.

When Lucifer rebelled and set up himself as a head in opposition to God and Christ, and set himself as a head in opposition to God and Christ, and drew away a great number of angels, the Son of God, manifested himself as an opposite head, and appeared graciously to dissuade and restrain by his grace the elect angels from hearkening to Lucifer’s temptation, so that they were upheld and preserved eternal destruction at this time of great danger by the free and sovereign distinguishing grace of Christ. Herein Christ was the Saviour of the elect angels, for thought he did not save them as he did elect men from the ruin they had already deserved, and were condemned to, and the miserable, state they were already in, yet he saved them from eternal destruction they were in great danger of, and otherwise would have fallen into with the other angels. The elect angels joined with him, the glorious Michael, as their captain, while the other angels hearkened to Lucifer and joined him, and then was that literally true that fulfilled afterwards figuratively. Rev xii. “When there was war in heaven : Michael and his angels fought against the dragon ; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not ; neither was there place found any more heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world ; he was case out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” (The Works of Jonathan Edwards, Vol. 2, Banner of Truth, 1979 reprint, p. 606.)

So this isn't a belief made up by Ellen White or even William Miller as it was around in Protestantism at least 100 years before either of them were born. (Jonathan Edwards died in 1758).

 

[presence]

"P - O - O - L - E"

*step*

 

[Sola_Fide]

The problem is that you claim that we defend it "now". SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTISTS HAVE ALWAYS HELD THE TRINITARIAN VIEW! It's a lie to claim or imply otherwise.

And just because you are ignorant of the fact that Hebrews teaches that Jesus lives to make intercession for us, doesn't make that truth non Christian.

What does Jesus living to make intercession for the saints have to do with investigative judgement? Investigative judgement is Jesus investigating your WORKS to see if you merit His atonement. There is no way around what Ellen G. White taught. You are not a Christian until you reject that belief and embrace the Jesus of the Bible who has fully atoned for the sins of His people.

 

[Ender]

Mormons do not believe that Jesus is the ONLY God that exists, like the Bible says. Mormons are polytheists, therefore they are not Christians.

Uh..... first of all the Bible never says that Jesus is the ONLY God that exists. And the Bible that most claim as "truth" was put together under Constantine's direction, who was a pagan. Many books were left out of the work that was to become the "Bible".

 

[Sola_Fide]

Originally Posted by jmdrake

And just because you are ignorant of the fact that Hebrews teaches that Jesus lives to make intercession for us, doesn't make that truth non Christian.

Ellen G. White taught various degrees of subordinationism. For example, she said:

"The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty." -Ellen G. White (1903, ms 150, SDA Commentary V, p. 1129)

She also taught in her book Spirit of Prophecy that Christ became God, not that He was God from all eternity:

"The great Creator assembled the heavenly host, that he might in the presence of all the angels confer special honor upon his Son. The Son was seated on the throne with the Father, and the heavenly throng of holy angels was gathered around them. The Father then made known that it was ordained by himself that Christ, his Son, should be equal with himself; so that wherever was the presence of his Son, it was as his own presence."

These are not Trinitarian beliefs...they are not Christian beliefs. Ellen G. White was a false prophet and all who follow her will go to hell.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Uh..... first of all the Bible never says that Jesus is the ONLY God that exists.

Yes it most certainly does, sir. The Bible is unequivocal in its assertion that there is ONE God only.

 

[phill4paul]

Yes it most certainly does, sir. The Bible is unequivocal in its assertion that there is ONE God only.

Christ.. you Christians are some of the most contentious farts I have ever encountered. I just lol at you/

 

[Anti Federalist]

Christ.. you Christians are some of the most contentious farts I have ever encountered. I just lol at you/

Hey!

That made Baby Jesus cry.

 

[Cody1]

What do you expect from people telling SDA's like myself that we are going to burn in hell (eternal torment is debatable since the eternal soul is pagan in origin) because we supposedly follow false prophets and deny the trinity. That's the stuff of unicorns and rainbows. Can't say I wish the same on them.

 

[phill4paul]

Hey!

That made Baby Jesus cry.

Christ would be appalled at the misunderstanding of his followers as some of the founders would be of theirs.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Uh..... first of all the Bible never says that Jesus is the ONLY God that exists. And the Bible that most claim as "truth" was put together under Constantine's direction, who was a pagan. Many books were left out of the work that was to become the "Bible".

It is true that many jews during and before Jesus' time were polytheistic and there is no one "Judaism", but the work of the Church Fathers makes a compelling case for the triune God. IOW, the bible implicitly says that Jesus is the one true God (who took on flesh to atone for the sins of man). And the reason many books were left out of the canon is because they were inauthentic (but that's complicated enough for its own thread, so I won't start a debate about that here)

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Yes it most certainly does, sir. The Bible is unequivocal in its assertion that there is ONE God only.

I agree. Augustine goes into pretty good detail on this.

 

[Ranger29860]

I can maybe understand what the teacher was going for in this "activity" , being that symbols or words hold no power unless you give it to them. But he seriously needs his head examined if he thought a predominately christian class that he would not cause a huge problem by using the word jesus as an example. He could have very easily used a slew of other things.

 

[Ranger29860]

Yes it most certainly does, sir. The Bible is unequivocal in its assertion that there is ONE God only.

For I will pass through the land of Egypt that night, and I will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and on all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments: I am the LORD.

Exodus 12:12

Give thanks to the God of gods, for his steadfast love endures forever.

Psalm 136:2

God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment: "How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked?

Psalm 82:1-2


Not wanting to get into an argument on the bible but I really hate when people don't know what the hell they are talking about.

*edit*
Not mentioning the ten commandments due to the way they are worded imply a created god (aka golden calf) but the others above don't make those assertions.

 

[acptulsa]

Rather unfortunate that people mis-understood my previous posts.

Yeah. But much less unfortunate than being dead wrong, eh?

So, what's the most offensive? A professor requiring people to step upon a name written on a piece of paper? This is nothing holy; a graven image at best. What does it mean to step on it? Nothing. Indeed, it's an insult to God to get upset over a graven image as that implies there's no substance to God.

How about a sophist arguing that three religions that obviously are talking about the same group of ancients have diverged enough in minor details that their identical God is three different gods? This is a bit more substantive than a name on a piece of paper; here we have someone disdaining the history behind these religions and therefore trying to rob them of some real legitimacy.

And then we have one fundamentalist trying to disparage the fundamentals of other sects to the point where he can make his own little sect an exclusive club and exclude as many people as possible from salvation. Is this more or less Christian than having people step on graven images? Seems a damned sight more rude to me. After all, graven images should mean nothing to a Christian. And to imply one needs a lawyer to get him into heaven is rather insulting to God.

This professor is a jerk. But the prof is not the only jerk, or possibly not even the biggest jerk.

 

[Sola_Fide]

For I will pass through the land of Egypt that night, and I will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and on all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments: I am the LORD.

Exodus 12:12

Give thanks to the God of gods, for his steadfast love endures forever.

Psalm 136:2

God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment: "How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked?

Psalm 82:1-2


Not wanting to get into an argument on the bible but I really hate when people don't know what the hell they are talking about.

*edit*
Not mentioning the ten commandments due to the way they are worded imply a created god (aka golden calf) but the others above don't make those assertions.

So you don't understand that the Bible teaches there is one God and many false gods that are idols?

 

[jmdrake]

Ellen G. White taught various degrees of subordinationism. For example, she said:

You took the quote out of context. Not surprising because you've done that in the past. Ellen White taught the same thing Paul taught. Here's Ellen White.

"Christ left His position in the heavenly courts, and came to this earth to live the life of human beings.
This sacrifice He made in order to show that Satan's charge against God is false--that it is possible
for man to obey the laws of God's kingdom. Equal with the Father, honored and adored by the angels, in our behalf Christ humbled Himself, and came to this earth to live a life of lowliness and poverty--to be a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. Yet the stamp of divinity was upon His humanity. He came as a divine Teacher, to uplift human beings, to increase their physical, mental, and spiritual efficiency. There is no one who can explain the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. Yet we know that He came to this earth and lived as a man among men. The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one. The Deity did not sink under the agonizing torture of Calvary, yet it is nonetheless true that "God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Here's Paul.

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Jesus, as God, consented to be humbled to the form of a man that was powerless to do anything without His Father.

Even Jesus said this Himself.

John 5:19 Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

John 5:30 I can do nothing on my own. I judge as God tells me. Therefore, my judgment is just, because I carry out the will of the one who sent me, not my own will.

You have committed the same fallacy Muslims commit, which is to say that acknowledging that Christ voluntarily humbled Himself and placed Himself under His Father's authority while on earth was a sign of weakness and proof that He wasn't God. Nothing could be further from the truth.

She also taught in her book Spirit of Prophecy that Christ became God, not that He was God from all eternity:

Again you left out much of the quote. Here's what you left out. Now quit being dishonest.

Satan in Heaven, before his rebellion, was a high and exalted angel, next in honor to God’s dear Son. His countenance, like those of the other angels, was mild and expressive of happiness. His forehead was high and broad, showing a powerful intellect. His form was perfect; his bearing noble and majestic. A special light beamed in his countenance, and shone around him brighter and more beautiful than around the other angels; yet Jesus, God’s dear Son, had the pre-eminence over all the angelic host. He was one with the Father before the angels were created. Satan was envious of Christ, and gradually assumed command which devolved on Christ alone.

The point Ellen White was making is the same as the Jonathan Edwards quote that I gave earlier. That is that Jesus, being ominpotent, has the power to take on any form that He very well pleases including an angel. That doesn't mean He's not God. Ellen White made it clear, in the part you clipped out, that Jesus was one with the Father and preexisted all creation including angels. But the angels didn't know that. How could they? They weren't there. They had to accept that truth on faith. Satan chose not to accept the authority of Jesus or of any member of the Trinity.

These are not Trinitarian beliefs...they are not Christian beliefs. Ellen G. White was a false prophet and all who follow her will go to hell.

False accusers are the ones destined to hell, and that would be you. If you are going to attack Ellen White, put her in context. It's not that hard. You have a search engine. Satan, when he tempted Jesus in the wilderness, did exactly what you are doing. He took a verse out of the Bible, took out a key phrase, and presented it as truth. It didn't work then and it doesn't work now. Edit: And before you jump in and say "jmdrake is saying EGW is equal to the Bible!" I am not. EGW didn't believe that herself. The point that I'm making is that anything must be quoted in context. If you selectively quote things and take them out of context that is dishonest. When I quoted what John Calvin said about Jesus and Michael I gave the full context. It's interesting that you haven't even attempted to respond to that. One minute the "Jesus as Michael" was your "solid proof" that SDAs rejected the Trinity, then when I knocked that argument down you smoothly went to the next one without even acknowledging your error.

And you should give everybody full disclosure. While you like to pick on SDAs because you know I am one, you actually think that Catholics, Baptists, Pentecostals, Orthodox Christians and anyone else who believes that Jesus died to save everyone (not just the "elect") are non Christians and destined to hell. Going by "Smart3's" definition of a cultist (someone that thinks that Christians that don't believe exactly as he does is not a Christian) that makes you the biggest cultist of them all. Even though you love to quote John Calvin and Martin Luther, you doubt their Christianity because at times they wrote things that at least implied that they believed that salvation was available to everyone and not just the "elect". It's a sick and twisted belief system you follow that makes God into the worst tyrant imaginable. He becomes someone who creates beings for the sole purpose of making them kindling for eternity, including babies.