Stef Molyneux's Critique on Zeitgeist: Moving Forward

[Fredom101]

I don't agree with any of the ZG solution, but I'm glad the movies were made as it is sparking a fun and interesting discussion!

 

[demolama]

His response to Stef is basically... you are in your own little money-loving world and have no clue what you are talking about

 

[EndDaFed]

No it's actually logical, based on the words of marx himself.

“The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property”. Karl Marx

Yea... TZM shouldn't have to address this criticism at all. It's soo stupid. Stef should know better than to apply basic logic and reason to his arguments.

It's not name calling, it's a legitime critique. Peter Joseph should address the REASONS as to why TZM is different than marx's theory, not just laugh it off with sarcastic comments, and call it stupid.

The burden of proof is on the person that makes the claim. In this case it would be Stefbot. Given that he has not sufficiently went over the material and pointed out where Zeitgeist fits all 10 planks of the communist manifesto or how it in any way is anything like communism's end goal his criticism is more from emotion than rationality. A mere declaration does not make it so.

Prove to me you're not a blood thirsty anarchist who wants chaos! You are against the state. You must be an evil car burning anarchist!!!! What rational response is there to that other than to laugh it off? It's absurd.

 

[ClayTrainor]

The burden of proof is on the person that makes the claim.

And Peter Joseph claims TZM is not Marxist. When will he prove it with reason, instead of mockery?

In this case it would be Stefbot. Given that he has not sufficiently went over the material and pointed out where Zeitgeist fits all 10 planks of the communist manifesto or how it in any way is anything like communism's end goal his criticism is more from emotion than rationality. A mere declaration does not make it so.

TZM wants to get rid of the concept of private property and.....

“The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property”. Karl Marx

The 10 planks are just Marx's plan for achieving communism, but above is the basic principle of communism, according to marx.

The burden of proof is on the TZM to explain how they aren't in line with Marx's theory as they have claimed, because according to Marx in his own words, it absolutely is. Just saying "no i'm not" and then mocking the people asking the questions, is not a valid intellectual response, it is a cop-out.

Prove to me you're not a blood thirsty anarchist who wants chaos! You are against the state. You must be an evil car burning anarchist!!!! What rational response is there to that other than to laugh it off? It's absurd.

Actually, that's very easy to respond to in a rational way. I support the non-aggression principle, and reject violence and aggression as legitimate ways to solve social problems.

No mockery required!

 

[ClayTrainor]

Marxism=Central Planning. There's no way around that.

Exactly! Marxism is just central planning taken to a radical extreme, that even Keynesians are wary of.

 

[Travlyr]

The man with two first names has just upped the ante. Peter Joseph is an expert at obfuscation. He has tons of believers world wide.

I'm a little curious how the robots will know when the produce is ripe enough to pick, how they will package and load the trucks, and when will they learn to drive the big rigs to deliver these resourced based goods to the people for free. I do like the concept of everything for free ... as long as I'm first in line.

 

[ClayTrainor]

I do like the concept of everything for free ... as long as I'm first in line.

haha, that's a very effective way of getting the point across. Well said!

 

[paulitics]

The man with two first names has just upped the ante. Peter Joseph is an expert at obfuscation. He has tons of believers world wide.

I'm a little curious how the robots will know when the produce is ripe enough to pick, how they will package and load the trucks, and when will they learn to drive the big rigs to deliver these resourced based goods to the people for free. I do like the concept of everything for free ... as long as I'm first in line.

You know what else is great. Evil, theft, corruption won't exist in Peter Joseph's utopia, so everyone will get just the right amount, in just the right time. Those in control of the robots will never cheat. Everyone will get the exact right amount for their needs, and this will just be scientifically known at all times.

 

[dannno]

I'm a little curious how the robots will know when the produce is ripe enough to pick, how they will package and load the trucks, and when will they learn to drive the big rigs to deliver these resourced based goods to the people for free. I do like the concept of everything for free ... as long as I'm first in line.

Actually, they do have robots that know when the produce is ripe enough to pick by color/size/softness of the outer shell, they can use robots to load the produce and they plan on using mag lev trains and pressurized tubes for transport.

If building all this technology (takes resources) resulted in a less expensive product (less resources to produce), then private companies would already be doing it.

It doesn't make sense that private industry would hold back technology on their own, it only makes sense that the large producers might use government coercion to stop technology that would make it easier for other producers to compete with them.

 

[dannno]

You know what else wouldn't exist in the Zeitgeist world? Poker. You know what my roommate is doing right now? Calling his friends over to play poker.

 

[Travlyr]

Peter Joseph's stern statement at the end of the video is a bit concerning. Paraphrasing - We are going to have a resource based economy one way or another no matter how much death and destruction must happen first. Hummmm....

 

[Travlyr]

You know what else is great. Evil, theft, corruption won't exist in Peter Joseph's utopia, so everyone will get just the right amount, in just the right time. Those in control of the robots will never cheat. Everyone will get the exact right amount for their needs, and this will just be scientifically known at all times.

I can't wait! Utopia at last!

 

[dannno]

Peter Joseph's stern statement at the end of the video is a bit concerning. Paraphrasing - We are going to have a resource based economy one way or another no matter how much death and destruction must happen first. Hummmm....

To be fair, he's supposedly kinda saying the same thing as when Ron Paul says the wars will end one way or another, one of these days we will be broke, or the Fed is going to end itself, etc..

I'm not saying that the Zeitgeist movement won't make some massive army and go out and kill dissenters, but currently none of the people I know involved in the movement would support that.

 

[Travlyr]

To be fair, he's supposedly kinda saying the same thing as when Ron Paul says the wars will end one way or another, one of these days we will be broke, or the Fed is going to end itself, etc..

I'm not saying that the Zeitgeist movement won't make some massive army and go out and kill dissenters, but currently none of the people I know involved in the movement would support that.

Okay. Fair enough.

 

[ClayTrainor]

Peter Joseph's stern statement at the end of the video is a bit concerning. Paraphrasing - We are going to have a resource based economy one way or another no matter how much death and destruction must happen first. Hummmm....

It's also interesting how he made that statement right before Stefan was about to introduce the "against me" argument in his clip. Peter never addressed the against me argument, and chose not to even play it for his viewers... that tells me everything i need to know about Peter Joseph and his TZM

 

[Travlyr]

It's also interesting how he made that statement right before Stefan was about to introduce the "against me" argument in his clip. Peter never addressed the against me argument, and chose not to even play it for his viewers... that tells me everything i need to know about TZM.

Yeah, he told me everything I need to know about it too. And Peter talks on and on about sustainability and resources but not one mention of industrial hemp. He is not honest, imo.

 

[Romulus]

You know what else is great. Evil, theft, corruption won't exist in Peter Joseph's utopia, so everyone will get just the right amount, in just the right time. Those in control of the robots will never cheat. Everyone will get the exact right amount for their needs, and this will just be scientifically known at all times.

I'm sure you're being sarcastic... but

What if your neighbor has a hot wife, you go and bang her 4 times a day until her husband finds out and kills you? How will Peter Joesph end that 'evil, theft and corruption'?

He essentially brings up the 'utopia' argument in ZG3 then laughs it off with no rebuttal as to why his ideals are pure fantasy devoid of any human instinctual nature.

 

[TortoiseDream]

Here's peter joseph's response to stefan's critique of the movie. I can only hope that this triggers a live conversation between these 2.

My head started to hurt after so much facepalming...

 

[osan]

How exactly do they plan on eliminating the competitive nature of humans and technological advancement? I don't see how it's possible without coercion/statism....

They want to do it through a consciousness revolution.

Break out the Brigade of Bunnies and Light!

Break out the thorazine.

 

[dannno]

My head started to hurt after so much facepalming...

Ya I'm not sure what my roommate was thinking. We've already agreed that corporations control government and bring about monopolization of industries and that a free market would be preferable to our current system, yet that fucktard PJ started saying how government regulations RESTRAIN corporations from becoming monopolies, and without it our system would have flopped 4 times over already.. Losing a lot of respect I had for PJ.. he does "get" a lot of stuff, amazing how wrong he can be knowing how much control they have over the whole system.