SPLIT: Religious discussion from Glenn Beck Thread

[nate895]

Why you are absolutely correct. So when someone says Catholics, Baptists and others are not really Christian, we should just consider that to be their opinion and brush it off as such.

What was I thinking?

Carry on.

Galatians 1:9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

Mormons preach another Gospel. Roman Catholics preach another Gospel. Therefore, Roman Catholics and Mormons ought to be accursed.

 

[low preference guy]

Mormons preach another Gospel. Roman Catholics preach another Gospel. Therefore, Roman Catholics and Mormons ought to be accursed.

Success with a capital S.

 

[Mini-Me]

Galatians 1:9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

Mormons preach another Gospel. Roman Catholics preach another Gospel. Therefore, Roman Catholics and Mormons ought to be accursed.

I repeat again what we declared before: anyone who preaches to you a gospel other than the one you were first given is to be under God's curse.

So, errr...either the Catholic Gospel is pretty much the same as your own, or we have two groups shouting heresy at each other... The translations are different of course, but considering the Gospel and Galatians 1:9 both predate either of them, the verse might as well apply to both if it applies to either.


...or as Borat would say, "Great success!"

 

[nate895]

So, errr...either the Catholic Gospel is pretty much the same as your own, or we have two groups shouting heresy at each other...

The Catholic Gospel involves all sorts of blasphemous sacrifices called the "Mass" or "Communion." That is totally different from the Gospel of the writer of Hebrews, where Christ's one-time sacrifice at Calvary is good enough on its own to perfect His people through the work of the Holy Spirit, as opposed to the Old Testament sacrifices which never perfected the people for whom it was made. The same is true of the modern day Mass in Roman Catholic dogma. So, if Roman Catholicism is true, then the writer of the Hebrews was making an illogical argument. Since Hebrews cannot be making an illogical argument, Roman Catholicism must be a false gospel.

 

[LDA]

"Something that is beyond man is happening," Beck told his supporters as the rally opened. "America today begins to turn back to God. For too long, this country has wandered in darkness."

I mean, if this is not overtly religious, I don't know what is. Point is, this is not the kind of unifying rhetoric we need in the liberty movement. I'm an atheist, and people are free to believe what they want, but we're never going to agree on something like religion, because it's man made, and usually when someone wants to combine government and religion, it's not to restore liberty, it's to empower government. Government loves religion, because it's just another excuse to impose its will on the masses.

Separation of church and state. People are free to believe what they want, but let's not bring it into political movements. I wish Glenn Beck could realize the damage he's doing, and the people he's alienating in the process: the upcoming generation of liberty-minded people that don't want anything to do with religion or "traditional values."

 

[Mini-Me]

The Catholic Gospel involves all sorts of blasphemous sacrifices called the "Mass" or "Communion." That is totally different from the Gospel of the writer of Hebrews, where Christ's one-time sacrifice at Calvary is good enough on its own to perfect His people through the work of the Holy Spirit, as opposed to the Old Testament sacrifices which never perfected the people for whom it was made. The same is true of the modern day Mass in Roman Catholic dogma. So, if Roman Catholicism is true, then the writer of the Hebrews was making an illogical argument. Since Hebrews cannot be making an illogical argument, Roman Catholicism must be a false gospel.

Looks like you caught me before my edit. The point was that if Galatians 1:9 applies to a Bible translation you don't like, it might as well apply to any and all Bible translations, since both are technically different from the Gospel (and Galatians 1:9) as originally written.

 

[nate895]

I mean, if this is not overtly religious, I don't know what is. Point is, this is not the kind of unifying rhetoric we need in the liberty movement. I'm an atheist, and people are free to believe what they want, but we're never going to agree on something like religion, because it's man made, and usually when someone wants to combine government and religion, it's not to restore liberty, it's to empower government. Government loves religion, because it's just another excuse to impose its will on the masses.

Separation of church and state. People are free to believe what they want, but let's not bring it into political movements. I wish Glenn Beck could realize the damage he's doing, and the people he's alienating in the process: the upcoming generation of liberty-minded people that don't want anything to do with religion or "traditional values."

 

[M House]

I think I'm gonna vomit if another one of these kooks mentions America's Judeo-Christian values or something. The only thing dooming the USA is intentional ignorance of history.

 

[nate895]

Looks like you caught me before my edit. The point was that if Galatians 1:9 applies to a Bible translation you don't like, it might as well apply to any and all Bible translations, since both are technically different from the Gospel (and Galatians 1:9) as originally written.

I think this is a communication problem then. I am not referring to the written Gospels, but rather the good news that is contained therein. For the most part, heretical Bible translations are ok. They aren't as good as Evangelical translations, but I would say that they contain the truth. The problem is that heretics do not preach the same Gospel as the one contained in the Scriptures they supposedly believe.

 

[LDA]

Right, I'm dumb. Not the people that are finding their morals in 2,000 year old desert scribblings. Every follower of every religion thinks they're right and everyone else is wrong. Show me the evidence and I'll believe your religion.

The problem with trying to get any kind libertarian movement off the ground is that most "conservatives" are also "social conservatives," i.e. they want to tell everyone else how to live, as determined by a book. If you really believe in liberty, though, you should know that the government should give no preference to any religion. Ron Paul might be a Christian, but you don't hear him talking about it. You know why? It's totally irrelevant to the job he's doing. He's fighting for everyone's freedom, not just the people that believe in the right book.

 

[low preference guy]

Jeremy is going to hell!!!!!!!!!

 

[nate895]

Right, I'm dumb. Not the people that are finding their morals in 2,000 year old desert scribblings. Every follower of every religion thinks they're right and everyone else is wrong. Show me the evidence and I'll believe your religion.

The problem with trying to get any kind libertarian movement off the ground is that most "conservatives" are also "social conservatives," i.e. they want to tell everyone else how to live, as determined by a book. If you really believe in liberty, though, you should know that the government should give no preference to any religion. Ron Paul might be a Christian, but you don't hear him talking about it. You know why? It's totally irrelevant to the job he's doing. He's fighting for everyone's freedom, not just the people that believe in the right book.

The problem is that you think that somehow you are not following "2,000 year old desert scribblings." Atheists existed 2,000 years ago as quite a powerful force. In fact, Christ himself confronted them at the Sanhedrin (controlled by the anti-supernatural Sadducees). Christianity beat them through logical debate once, and we have already done so again. If you really want evidence that shows the world is consistent with Biblical Christianity and yet inconsistent with atheism or any other belief system, there are tons of ministries that are dedicated to answering your toughest questions that I simply don't have time for today www.answersingenesis.org is a good place to start.

 

[Dr.3D]

Jeremy is going to hell!!!!!!!!!

Now you have voiced your opinion. LOL

Emmm... seem to remember something about judging other lest you be judged.

Carry on.

 

[nate895]

Now you have voiced your opinion. LOL

Emmm... seem to remember something about judging other lest you be judged [likewise].

Carry on.

I am judging myself likewise.

 

[Mini-Me]

I think this is a communication problem then. I am not referring to the written Gospels, but rather the good news that is contained therein. For the most part, heretical Bible translations are ok. They aren't as good as Evangelical translations, but I would say that they contain the truth. The problem is that heretics do not preach the same Gospel as the one contained in the Scriptures they supposedly believe.

You'll get no argument from me there. I really do not understand why the Catholic Church thinks it has any kind of legitimate theological basis for its non-Biblical butt-pull doctrines and rituals.

Anyywayyyyyyyyyy....

 

[nate895]

You'll get no argument from me there. I really do not understand why the Catholic Church thinks it has any kind of legitimate theological basis for its non-Biblical butt-pull doctrines and rituals.

Anyywayyyyyyyyyy....

It's tradition, man!!! No matter that we can't find it except in heretical sources that we condemn, it's still tradition!!!

You can get a debate on Mary right now by going to aomin.org and going to the webcast link to see a Romanist trying to defend the Marian dogmas.

 

[Mini-Me]

It's tradition, man!!! No matter that we can't find it except in heretical sources that we condemn, it's still tradition!!!

You can get a debate on Mary right now by going to aomin.org and going to the webcast link to see a Romanist trying to defend the Marian dogmas.

Heh...no, thank you. This thread's about as close as I'd like to get to religious debates today.

 

[LDA]

The problem is that you think that somehow you are not following "2,000 year old desert scribblings." Atheists existed 2,000 years ago as quite a powerful force. In fact, Christ himself confronted them at the Sanhedrin (controlled by the anti-supernatural Sadducees). Christianity beat them through logical debate once, and we have already done so again. If you really want evidence that shows the world is consistent with Biblical Christianity and yet inconsistent with atheism or any other belief system, there are tons of ministries that are dedicated to answering your toughest questions that I simply don't have time for today www.answersingenesis.org is a good place to start.

There is no logical debate to have. You believe in a God that you have no proof of, period. You don't know that the bible was inspired or written by God.

I'm not going to have a religious debate here. I've done it hundreds of times before and it never changes anyone's mind. The human mind is capable of compartmentalizing absurd beliefs. It's what I did. It's what you do. You're fully capable of looking at, say, Islam, or Scientology, and easily identifying them as a crock. You won't take that same objective look at your own religion, because you're worried about going to Hell. Until you decide to take a step back, and analyze your own beliefs, you'll keep stubbornly creating justifications for a religion that cannot be justified.

Just a heads up, by the way, atheism isn't a belief system. Atheism doesn't require any me to take anything on faith. It just means I don't believe in God. You were born an atheist. We all were. It was only when you were indoctrinated as a child, or perhaps as an adult, that you became a theist. Atheism is the default position, and it's not an absolute claim.

 

[Mini-Me]

There is no logical debate to have. You believe in a God that you have no proof of, period. You don't know that the bible was inspired or written by God.

I'm not going to have a religious debate here. I've done it hundreds of times before and it never changes anyone's mind. The human mind is capable of compartmentalizing absurd beliefs. It's what I did. It's what you do. You're fully capable of looking at, say, Islam, or Scientology, and easily identifying them as a crock. You won't take that same objective look at your own religion, because you're worried about going to Hell. Until you decide to take a step back, and analyze your own beliefs, you'll keep stubbornly creating justifications for a religion that cannot be justified.

Just a heads up, by the way, atheism isn't a belief system. Atheism doesn't require any me to take anything on faith. It just means I don't believe in God. You were born an atheist. We all were. It was only when you were indoctrinated as a child, or perhaps as an adult, that you became a theist. Atheism is the default position, and it's not an absolute claim.

Not to nitpick, but I'm going to nitpick:
Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say we were all born agnostic, since simply "not knowing" is more of a default position?

It does depend on how you define atheism though. Nonbelief in God/gods is different from a specific belief in the nonexistence of God/gods.

 

[speciallyblend]

Right, I'm dumb. Not the people that are finding their morals in 2,000 year old desert scribblings. Every follower of every religion thinks they're right and everyone else is wrong. Show me the evidence and I'll believe your religion.

The problem with trying to get any kind libertarian movement off the ground is that most "conservatives" are also "social conservatives," i.e. they want to tell everyone else how to live, as determined by a book. If you really believe in liberty, though, you should know that the government should give no preference to any religion. Ron Paul might be a Christian, but you don't hear him talking about it. You know why? It's totally irrelevant to the job he's doing. He's fighting for everyone's freedom, not just the people that believe in the right book.

your spot on, I trust organized religion less then our own government not that i trust them either!! I have no problem with people's faith just their desire to enforce their rules on everyone else thru the us constitution!! Of course i am not labeling everyone but in general the right-wing of the republican party is what is destroying america!!