Split: Questions/concerns about the Kent Snyder chip-in

[WRellim]

The official campaign doesn't exactly win any prizes in my book for communicating well with the grassroots or being forthcoming with information. The presence of this chip-in on the CFL site does nothing to answer my questions.

Oh, I think they do win prizes -- unfortunately they are for Secrecy, Cliquishness, Clannishness, and Dissemblance.


Which IMHO, doesn't equate to "walking" the walk.

And it makes me sad to say that.

 

[Tarzan]

Oh, I think they do win prizes -- unfortunately they are for Secrecy, Cliquishness, Clannishness, and Dissemblance.

Which IMHO, doesn't equate to "walking" the walk.

And it makes me sad to say that.

Too bad they are unable to come out with the whole truth... based on the bits and pieces of information (and Kent’s pictures) the guy had AIDS. I do not have any definitive proof of that... but it is the only conclusion that seems logical. And now nobody can say it without having the wrath of god descend on them... at least in any of these forums.

If KS was such a good friend of RPs... and KS died in service to RP... then you would think the donations would be higher from KS's friends and RP. Maybe RP should donate ALL of the proceeds of his book sales (including the family cookbook) to paying off the medical bills.

If Kent had this “preexisting condition” that made it impossible for him to properly run a campaign he should have been replaced. Regardless, the campaign leadership should have been replaced based on the results they achieved with the money they wasted. I am not going to go through the whole litany but the behavior indicates they NEVER intended to win and were actually frightened when Ron Paul started getting too much attention. I suspect that may have been part of the reason the MSM exposure was sabotaged by the campaign… at least until Ron Paul launched his book tour… and “suspended” the campaign… and announced CFL with the big huge Donation button.

There are still a lot of questions on the Kent Snyder donations... including WHY the money is needed and WHERE the money is going. If there is a particular person or group responsible for the medical bills; name them! Too bad they continue with the half truths and deception. But, we have seen this behavior continually repeated and I have learned to expect nothing different from them. What has taken months for me to realize is really annoying. This whole thing has been a fraud and the CFL is a continuation of that fraud. I would like to believe the con was not purposeful… I would prefer to believe they are just incompetent and delusional as they squandered the millions donated by a lot of hard working people. Regardless of the motivation the behavior continues. And now the “Donate for Kent” is the largest thing on the CFL site rather than any real efforts to help restore the constitution.

It really annoys me because of the loss to those who would really like to see a constitutional government... and this "movement" is busy heading nowhere while they continue the con. Sadly, they may even be conning themselves. But actions speak MUCH louder than words and their actions have disenfranchised a lot of people who genuinely want the constitution restored.

Ron Paul and his staff have lost ALL credibility with me. Fortunately for them they will probably be able to keep their jobs in these tough economic times. It seems clear that enough people will continue to buy into this poorly run and led “movement” and enough money will come in to keep it funded… at least, enough to pay the salaries of the staff and leaders. If plain old donations aren’t enough they can keep funding coming in by hawking their books sales… like the RP Family Cookbook. Perhaps a new book on Financial Structures with the title “Das Kapital” would make a nice addition and serve as a companion piece for “Manifesto”.

Well… enough for me. I guess I will just wait for it to all come crashing down and invest in Carbon Credits; the new, up and coming world commodity and financial con game. Or, as I sometimes call it, financial vaporware. Heck, If it’s good enough for Pelosi, Gingrich, Sharpton, Robertson and a host of other criminals I will make money there too, (just not the billions they will rake in)… then, go hide in Washington State… and listen to the end come on short wave radio… reminder to self; buy more ammo.

 

[Mckarnin]

Hmm, that would explain a lot. I would be interested to hear people like Jonathan Bydlak follow through on their vague inferences about all the things we don't know about the campaign.

Mostly though I just want details on this chip-in. I PM'ed the IP but no reply.

K

 

[WRellim]

[...] I am not going to go through the whole litany but the behavior indicates they NEVER intended to win and were actually frightened when Ron Paul started getting too much attention. I suspect that may have been part of the reason the MSM exposure was sabotaged by the campaign… at least until Ron Paul launched his book tour… and “suspended” the campaign… and announced CFL with the big huge Donation button.[...]

Hmm... so your saying it was like a "small-time con" that "backfired" because it got TOO big, too fast, and was in danger of actually succeeding?

Don't know if I can believe that.**

The basic aspect that they were USING the Presidential campaign as a "mechanism" to raise money (and set aside about $5M which they did from Sept on -- they never allowed the balance to go below that) -- for "something else" (other than the campaign)... THAT part makes sense.

That they never intended (or has a clue how) to run a REAL campaign... that also I think there is solid evidence for.

That they *did* sabotage (or screw-up) and squander MSM exposure is also fairly evident. (Much easier to let the "mob" blame some media "conspiracy.")

But my money is still on incompetence. Like a bunch of adolescents "playing" at an adult game that they really don't understand.


** Of course I also think that it really doesn't matter which it was. Whether "con" or "incompetence" -- either way the opportunity has been squandered -- the movement and organizations attempting to "salvage" or benefit from it are all DOA (just look at the chipins and moneybombs; all failures)...

IMHO, the CFL thing will never turn into even another "MoveOn.org" as that requires real leadership and solidarity around a common purpose -- and the movement is missing both -- leaders were never really allowed to develop, and the base "purpose" is way too fractured (just like the campaign's lack of "focus" -- it always was too much of a "mixed stew" anyway whether "Zeitgeist" or "Russo" or "9/11 Truth" -- the truce between the factions was always a temporary and very unstable one).


I seriously think that the only way dramatic change can really occur will be with some type of dramatic "earthquake" like shakeup -- like the end of the Soviet Union -- a "sea change" that sweeps away an old generation (or generations) and their bankrupt-ideas, and lays the groundwork for an entirely new "paradigm" with a new generation that rejects the previous ones.

At that... well, the campaign may have succeeded in planting a few "seeds" or scattering some "fertilizer" -- but it certainly will not be able to take credit for whatever tree grows from it -- and there is no real knowing what shape that tree will take; we just have to wait and see.

"Hope springs Eternal" ...and "This too shall pass."

 

[Mckarnin]

Jonathan Bydlak's profile went green an hour or so ago and I was expecting an answer to my PM or some more information in this thread...so far, nada.

 

[Soccrmastr]

It seems pretty obnxious to ask members of a political movement to donate personal funds to anyone for personal reasons.

 

[WRellim]

It seems pretty obnoxious to ask members of a political movement to donate personal funds to anyone for personal reasons.

Well, I doubt they really considered that aspect... I think most of the campaign staffers now consider "the grassroots" as akin to "Daddy's credit card" and that it is an source of endless cash ...to be tapped for whatever they want; all they have to do is put up a "Donate Here" button... and "abra-cadabra" thousands and thousands (if not millions) of dollars will magically flood into their accounts.

 

[Mckarnin]

Well, I doubt they really considered that aspect... I think most of the campaign staffers now consider "the grassroots" as akin to "Daddy's credit card" and that it is an source of endless cash ...to be tapped for whatever they want; all they have to do is put up a "Donate Here" button... and "abra-cadabra" thousands and thousands (if not millions) of dollars will magically flood into their accounts.

What, you mean that isn't what a donate button does? Dang.

 

[Gin]

His creditors can file claims against his estate for money owed them. This would include medical bills. How the assets of the estate would be proportioned amongst the creditors would depend on the laws of the state where his estate is opened. His family would not normally be responsible for his bills unless they had made some agreement with the creditors to act as a surety.

Come on guys/gals... show his family a little compassion... how would you feel after your family member passed away?

Don't you think his family has enough stress on them with his death? Why add to it medical bills and the fear of losing your home (or more)... If you don't want to donate then freaking don't, but at least show this family and Ron Paul some respect......

No wonder the world is the way it is today.....

 

[amy31416]

Come on guys/gals... show his family a little compassion... how would you feel after your family member passed away?

Don't you think his family has enough stress on them with his death? Why add to it medical bills and the fear of losing your home (or more)... If you don't want to donate then freaking don't, but at least show this family and Ron Paul some respect......

No wonder the world is the way it is today.....

I'm quite honestly saddened by Kent's death and I think it's tacky and classless for people to criticize his performance out of one side of their mouth, then say rest in peace out of the other. But, it's also kind of tacky and over-the-top to ask us to pay his medical bills, especially when we already feel like an ATM.

He doesn't have children, he doesn't have a spouse--who's losing their home? I was completely on board with donating to a memorial to Snyder because, regardless of his alleged performance or lack thereof in his job, he is the one who got Ron Paul to run, and in that sense, he changed my life for the better. I feel a debt of gratitude both to Ron Paul and Kent Snyder for that despite any of their flaws.

I just can't understand asking us for $400k, that's over the top.

 

[CMoore]

The fact is that most likely, NOBODY is going to lose their home. I am not clear why anyone thinks his family would be responsible for his medical bills. Anyone out there who can clarify this for me?

 

[Mark]

He doesn't have children, he doesn't have a spouse--who's losing their home? I was completely on board with donating to a memorial to Snyder because, regardless of his alleged performance or lack thereof in his job, he is the one who got Ron Paul to run, and in that sense, he changed my life for the better. I feel a debt of gratitude both to Ron Paul and Kent Snyder for that despite any of their flaws.

I just can't understand asking us for $400k, that's over the top.

Yesterday morning for the site launch I put up a persistent notice on The Freedom Revolution site about the memorial site mentioning the bills and donations, but I just changed it to only mentioning the memorial site itself so as not to imply that we know what's going on regarding the donation request.

There may indeed be validity in the fact that there isn't anyone to "sue" over the bills. Of course, maybe his family just feel an obligation to pay them, who knows?

It would be nice to have a clearer explanation of the circumstances. I wonder if anyone has written the people who started the site and donation drive for further clarification?

 

[amy31416]

Yesterday morning for the site launch I put up a persistent notice on The Freedom Revolution site about the memorial site mentioning the bills and donations, but I just changed it to only mentioning the memorial site itself so as not to imply that we know what's going on regarding the donation request.

There may indeed be validity in the fact that there isn't anyone to "sue" over the bills. Of course, maybe his family just feel an obligation to pay them, who knows?

It would be nice to have a clearer explanation of the circumstances. I wonder if anyone has written the people who started the site and donation drive for further clarification?

Hey there, it's been a while since we've seen you around these parts.

 

[Mark]

Hey there, it's been a while since we've seen you around these parts.

I've missed you too... Oh, wait a minute, you didn't say that...

You know how it is... crappy world/try to make better.. it can be time consuming sometimes.

See you in Washington next weekend?

 

[WRellim]

Yesterday morning for the site launch I put up a persistent notice on The Freedom Revolution site about the memorial site mentioning the bills and donations, but I just changed it to only mentioning the memorial site itself so as not to imply that we know what's going on regarding the donation request.

There may indeed be validity in the fact that there isn't anyone to "sue" over the bills. Of course, maybe his family just feel an obligation to pay them, who knows?

It would be nice to have a clearer explanation of the circumstances. I wonder if anyone has written the people who started the site and donation drive for further clarification?

Well, the site your link points to (http://www.kentsnyder.com/) no longer says anything about a "memorial fund" and only talks about a "medical fund" to "help Kent's family pay off the debt."

Did they do a switcheroo on the site you linked to? Or am I misunderstanding the situation?

 

[amy31416]

I've missed you too... Oh, wait a minute, you didn't say that...

You know how it is... crappy world/try to make better.. it can be time consuming sometimes.

See you in Washington next weekend?

Come on! I miss the people who've departed the forums for often good reasons. I'm in touch with a lovely woman who couldn't handle some of the more extreme libertarian views that crop up from time to time.

Unfortunately, I can't make it to DC, but I have every intention of getting to St. Paul in September.

Looks like you're up to some good stuff with your org though--I'll check it out more thoroughly.

 

[Mark]

Well, the site your link points to (http://www.kentsnyder.com/) no longer says anything about a "memorial fund" and only talks about a "medical fund" to "help Kent's family pay off the debt."

Did they do a switcheroo on the site you linked to? Or am I misunderstanding the situation?

No switch-a-do-dad, it's always been the "official" Memorial "site", at least to me, the medical fund is just a component of the site.

I had mentioned in the notice something like "..help retire his medical bills. To donate visit KentSnyder.com".

Now the notice just mentions the site, but not the request for funds.

 

[Mark]

Come on! I miss the people who've departed the forums for often good reasons. I'm in touch with a lovely woman who couldn't handle some of the more extreme libertarian views that crop up from time to time.

Unfortunately, I can't make it to DC, but I have every intention of getting to St. Paul in September.

Looks like you're up to some good stuff with your org though--I'll check it out more thoroughly.

Please do. The site's very bare right now, just started the actual current/real development Thursday,
still figuring out the Content Management System (CMS) and how to arrange everything, what to include ect ect.

You know how it is, some people you don't miss for good reasons, and some people you do miss for good reasons.

You just happen to be someone I miss for good reasons.
Plus, you're kind of easy to miss. It's not difficult for me to miss you. It happens quite easily.

 

[amy31416]

Please do. The site's very bare right now, just started the actual development thursday, still figuring out the Content Management System (CMS) and how to arrange everything, what to include ect ect.

You know how it is, some people you don't miss for good reasons, and some people you do miss for good reasons.

You just happen to be someone I miss for good reasons.
Plus, you're kind of easy to miss. It's not difficult for me to miss you. It happens quite easily.

Well thanks. Same goes for you without a doubt.

What's wrong with me that insults and personal attacks are easier to deal with than someone being nice and complimentary? Where's Pacelli when I need him?

 

[Mark]

Well thanks. Same goes for you without a doubt.

What's wrong with me that insults and personal attacks are easier to deal with than someone being nice and complimentary? Where's Pacelli when I need him?

Yeah, life's "funny" like that now and then. Perhaps Pacelli has imparted the answer already.
Some answers and solutions we must truly desire before we can accept them.

The excitement of fighting is a base reaction, simply survival.

To achieve a higher and deeper reaction requires a more developed "taste" for the excitement that comes with good things.

When you finally insist for yourself only the best of relationships because as a person you know you deserve only the best,
you'll have developed that "taste".

It's a much more refined, rare and beautiful excitement, not many achieve it, but you Amy do have the potential to.

You deserve the best, I know at least that much about you.

Want it, seek it, obtain it. Simple as that. (hugs)