split off from Ron Paul Grassroots subforum about voting in November

[nasaal]

Gary Johnson won me over for good in the debate. Yea I'd rather have Paul on the Ballot, but he isn't. I can more than live with Johnson.

 

[Madison320]

Tonight in the third party debate; Gary Johnson "my hero Ron Paul". THAT sealed the deal for me right there. Ron Paul is NOT on my ballot. Gary Johnson is. If I write Ron Paul on my ballot my vote actually might not be counted. If I vote for Gary Johnson my vote has a 99% chance of being counted (figuring for possible voter fraud).
I agree with Gary Johnson on 94% of his policies compared to 97% of Ron Paul's policies, compared to 59% of ROmney's and 4% of Obama's. I can cast my vote guilt free for Gary Johnson despite my deep long standing committment to NOBP. I also believe that if I had an honest discussion with Ron Paul himself, he would support my choice.

That's almost exactly how I feel. The differences between Ron Paul and Gary Johnson are even smaller when you consider how far left are country is. I agree a little bit more with Ron Paul's beliefs but they're both so far on the side of liberty compared to the rest of the country, that it doesn't make much difference. We need to move in the direction of freedom. When we get there we can fine tune it.

 

[sailingaway]

I'm thinking of breaking off the Gary Johnson comments to the 2012 section. This is Ron Paul's forum

 

[hrdman2luv]

Gary Johnson won me over for good in the debate. Yea I'd rather have Paul on the Ballot, but he isn't. I can more than live with Johnson.

I like Gary Johnson. Enough to vote for him. Especially since knowing that if I write in "Ron Pauls" name, it will be listed as "others", and not Ron Paul.

Ron Paul stated, that you have to change governmnt from the inside out. The LP is about as close to being inside (for conservatives) as the GOP is going to allow. So I think it necessary to help the LP carry on the fight.

I just wonder, if RP could've gotten elected as an LP candidate for his district in 2008, how many of us would be voting LP now? I would imagine, 95% of the RP "write in" voters wouldn't have no problem voting for Gary Johnson this year.

 

[hrdman2luv]

I'm thinking of breaking off the Gary Johnson comments to the 2012 section. This is Ron Paul's forum

I think the GJ and RP supporters are about equal. And separating us, is dividing us. I understand this is a Ron Paul forum. And a Ron Paul thread.

It just seems as if us Gary Johnsons supporters are being made to sit in our corners and play amongst ourselves. There's not one of us that wouldn't vote for Ron Paul if he was on the ballot. So we are still supporting RP's cause.

Food for thought. No offense, but dividing us is just that. Dividing us. Want to see the Liberty movement come crashing to a end. Division is the fastest and easiest way.

 

[sailingaway]

I think the GJ and RP supporters are about equal. And separating us, is dividing us. I understand this is a Ron Paul forum. And a Ron Paul thread.

It just seems as if us Gary Johnsons supporters are being made to sit in our corners and play amongst ourselves. There's not one of us that wouldn't vote for Ron Paul if he was on the ballot. So we are still supporting RP's cause.

Food for thought. No offense, but dividing us is just that. Dividing us. Want to see the Liberty movement come crashing to a end. Division is the fastest and easiest way.

I don't think they are even but it doesn't matter, I am speaking of subforums here, as in not going into Rand's and saying vote for Trey Grayson, etc. This is Ron Paul forums overall, but this specifically is the Ron Paul subforum of Ron Paul forums. There is a 2012 presidential election section where others can be discussed. Saying RON PAUL's particular corner isn't GJ's is appropriate, I believe.

And this isn't a case of 'dividing people' but not having GJ people come to Ron Paul's section and try to get Ron Paul supporters on Ron Paul forums to not vote for Ron Paul. Except for that, there is no problem with your participating in threads in that, or any other subforum here.

 

[ShaganOverman]

Voting Libertarian at least advances a cause. 5% in the general election nets 20million in federal campaign funds for next the next elelection. Ron Paul once ran as a libertarian. He believes in the parties message. Writing in RP just because your angry at the republican party advances nothing. If you really want to advance the cause of liberty voting for the libertarian is the best thing you can do with your vote. Everything else is just a protest vote.

 

[CPUd]

Voting Libertarian at least advances a cause. 5% in the general election nets 20million in federal campaign funds for next the next elelection. Ron Paul once ran as a libertarian. He believes in the parties message. Writing in RP just because your angry at the republican party advances nothing. If you really want to advance the cause of liberty voting for the libertarian is the best thing you can do with your vote. Everything else is just a protest vote.

What you are really suggesting is that we should help the LP get a spot at the trough. I'd rather there not be a trough.

 

[Captain Shays]

I don't care about your guilt, but there is an organization to this board. Also, Ron Paul specifically said writing him in was fine if people were fed up, and I posted that video earlier in the thread. I have no idea who Ron will vote for, other than it will not be for Romney or Obama.

He has also on multiple occasions said he was going to continue speaking out on these issues. He may be retiring from the House, but he is not retiring from public life.

Also, I am NOT the one saying YOU can't vote for anyone you want.

Sailing, I don't think any of us who have changed our minds from NOBP to voting for Gary Johnson are saying you can't vote for Ron Paul. All of us just try to make a pursuasive argument in the best way that we can. I too have decided with great reluctance to vote for Johnson for the very same reasons RonPaul101.com has. I want the Libertarian Party to reach it's 5%, but I also agree with Johnson on 94% of his issues according to a test I took. Plus during the third party debate he said that Ron Paul is his hero. Plus I know for a FACT that since Ron Paul didn't file the paperwork to be counted as a write in my vote won't even be counted if I write him in. I want my vote to be counted. I want the GOP to be on notice that they are losing Liberty minded voters and hopefully if they lose to Obama, I REALLY want them to KNOW without a doubt it was me/us who cost them the election. They won't know if the write in Ron Paul votes aren't counted. No one will. I just don't want the GOP to know it, I want EVERYONE to know it.

 

[chudrockz]

What you are really suggesting is that we should help the LP get a spot at the trough. I'd rather there not be a trough.

This. In any case, does anyone know if the LP would even TAKE federal election funds? Wouldn't that be rather "un-Libertarian" of them?

 

[Captain Shays]

What you are really suggesting is that we should help the LP get a spot at the trough. I'd rather there not be a trough.

Well me too but the trough is there. Doesn't Ron Paul wish there were no earmarks but he votes to get the money back for his constituents? When I install solar panels here in New Jersey and my tax dollars that are taken out of my paycheck before I even see them g help to buy the panels I'm installing on somebody else's roof don't you think it burns my ass? It burns my libertarian Ron Paul supporting boss's ass too but we promote the subsidies, and grants and tax breaks to our customers when we sell the system because it's there. It exists and we can't change that. Of course we fight to have them removed and we try to educate everyone we come in contact with about the free market approach to energy production and all of its virtues, but since the mechanisms are in place and we cant change it we use them to our advantage. I have no problem with the Libertarian Party taking advantage of the $90 million to compete with the monies given by taxpayers to the corporate controlled parties.

 

[chudrockz]

You don't think there's a good chance that being given a ninety million dollar "gift" might well turn the LP into yet another "corporate controlled party"?

 

[Dogsoldier]

I'm a libertarian.So is Ron Paul.Do you honestly think Ron Paul will vote for Romney?OF COURSE NOT!!!He will vote for Gary Johnson.He agrees with GJ 94% then Romney maybe 50%?And I'm being generous there. He will vote for Gary Johnson as all Ron Paul lovers should to send a clear message to the establishment.

I don't understand why you write his name in when it won't be counted and the parties do not care,count,pay attention to write ins. Do you realize how many different names will be wrote in?There could be over a thousand different names wrote in people that just don't care and write in their neighbors names.Who the hell cares about a write in?!?!?

Ron Paul IS a libertarian. There seems to be some republicans on this site that hate this. I can prove it. Go to the libertarian website and look at the platform and then go to the neocon site.See for yourself which 1 Paul aligns with more. LIBERTARIAN!

Send a clear message to the GOP by voting for Gary Johnson a guy that Ron Paul WILL vote for.I mean who the hell else will he vote for you tell me?!?!? It sure as hell won't be Romney!!!Think he will write a name in?Hell no he won't. He will vote for the guy that best follows the constitution THAT IS ACTUALLY RUNNING AND WILL BE ON THE BALLOT!

I am a Ron Paul delegate from Missouri and registered republican.

Our goal is to take over the establishment NOT join them. A write in does nothing to help the cause.

 

[MelissaWV]

I'm not sure how many times this has to be said, and that's part of the problem: we're each going to vote our conscience.

Those of you voting for Johnson, good on ya. Many of you do like him, agree with him, and actively support him. Some of you are thinking big-picture for your party of choice. Okay.

Now, why be the Jehovah's Witnesses of the forums, hopping into every "I'm writing in Ron Paul" topic and telling people it's silly to do so, and please vote for Gary, and you really agree with him (even if you don't), and please help us get matching funds, and don't throw your vote away?

 

[Captain Shays]

Dogsoldier and Mellissa make great points but let me point out that we're all brothers and sisters who have been raped, beaten, lied to, accused of horrible evils, discounted and even called terrorists by the establishment and that, we're all on the same side. We're all just looking for the best way to help our country and that probaly includes putting the screws to the establishment. So what's the "best" way? I'm still not totally sure. I'm leaning toward the position that Dogsoldier expressed and, I also totally sympathize with Melissa's points. The main reason why I am just leaning toward Johnson is that my write in for Ron Paul will not be counted. Dog is right. Nobody cares about write in votes and just about that same number also discounts those who vote for ANY third party, not just the Libertariam Party as irrevelant, crazy, stupid and evil for helping to elect the worst of the two evils. Dog is right that "they" will place my write in for Ron Paul next to the write in for Donald Duck which to me is worse than putting my vote for an established Libertarian who IS on my ballot next to Jill Stein who is also on the ballot even though I disagree with her politicial solutions to the problems we face. Sure they see votes for third party candidates as wasted votes, Sure they think we're stupid, crazy or evil. There is a certain legitimacy to voting third party because of all the ballot access qualification requirements and hurdles they must face just to get their names on the ballot. I KNOW what I'm talking about because I have done it. I have stood out in front of super markets asking total strangers for their names, addresses and phone numbers to get some (to them) obscure candidate's name on the ballot. I've done it three times in three different elections.Tust me. Even though the average American doesn't know whats going on and fewer care about what third parties must go through just to get their names on ballots and make a good run of it, but the establishment KNOWS for sure. Of course they do. They made the rules. They watch us. They count our votes wn evote third party and then they blame us for costng them the election. They blamd Perot for costing Bush 41. They blamed Nader for costing Gore. Meanwhile as obscure as my candidate was, I still looked down my nose at those who wrote in Donald Duck and thought they were crazy idiots. Donald Duck is NOT Ronald Paul but in the minds of establishment thinkers it's right there next to it. Gary Johnson's voters WILL be seen as Ronald Paul voters who are giving them the New Jersey bird salute and they may hate me and they may call me names but they WILL KNOW I put the screws to them and why I put the screws to them and they WILL KNOW that my vote for Gary Johnson IS a vote for Ron Paul. If I write in Ron Paul, they will see my vote as a vote for Donald Duck

 

[Dogsoldier]

"Many of you do like him, agree with him, and actively support him."...Such as Ron Paul who agrees 94% with him and probably less then 50% for Romney and they are actaually running and on the ballot.


"Some of you are thinking big-picture for your party of choice. Okay." "YOUR Party?"What does that mean? My "party" is the constitution and who best supports it that IS ACTUALLY RUNNING AND ON THE BALLOT.



"telling people it's silly to do so, and please vote for Gary"----Not silly just a waste of your vote. I'm begging to please don't waste it we've come so far please help send a clear message to both the democratic party and the republicans

 

[MelissaWV]

"Many of you do like him, agree with him, and actively support him."...Such as Ron Paul who agrees 94% with him and probably less then 50% for Romney and they are actaually running and on the ballot.


"Some of you are thinking big-picture for your party of choice. Okay." "YOUR Party?"What does that mean? My "party" is the constitution and who best supports it that IS ACTUALLY RUNNING AND ON THE BALLOT.



"telling people it's silly to do so, and please vote for Gary"----Not silly just a waste of your vote. I'm begging to please don't waste it we've come so far please help send a clear message to both the democratic party and the republicans

YOUR party meaning the L party. I am not a party member. I really don't think boosting another party up to a spot at the trough, as someone else more eloquently put it, should be the reason I hold my nose and vote for someone I do not agree with on most of the issues important to me. Your percentages are made up, imo, and whether that is malicious or just to try to pursuade someone... who knows. You agree with him, or you want to boost up a third party, or both. Good I do not agree with him, I'm not an L party member, and I will be writing in Ron Paul. If there were no write-in space, I would just be leaving it blank. The only reason I am voting at all is my concern over a number of local races and state amendments.

 

[Captain Shays]

Melissa and Dog let's not confuse the small "l" in libertarian with the big "L" member in the Libertarian Party. I was never a member in the Libertarian Party either but I AM a libertarian for sure and so is Ron Paul and in my opinion so is Gary Johnson. He may not be as pure as driven snow libertarian but I still consider him a libertarian.More importantly is that the establishment will see my vote for Johnson IS a vote for Ron Paul and it WILL be counted

 

[MelissaWV]

Melissa and Dog let's not confuse the small "l" in libertarian with the big "L" member in the Libertarian Party. I was never a member in the Libertarian Party either but I AM a libertarian for sure and so is Ron Paul and in my opinion so is Gary Johnson. He may not be as pure as driven snow libertarian but I still consider him a libertarian.More importantly is that the establishment will see my vote for Johnson IS a vote for Ron Paul and it WILL be counted

*sighs* I'm not confusing the two. The discussion is about getting the L Party (big "L" by default there) matching funds and ballot access, and that being sufficient reason to hold one's nose and vote for someone one disagrees with.

 

[Dogsoldier]

"YOUR party meaning the L party"----Registered republican here.

Much like Ron Paul I'm libertarian/republican. But party doesn't matter to me only the constitution.

"Your percentages are made up, imo"----ok lets say they are....Do you think Ron Paul agrees with Romney more then Gary Johnson?No way!...What are your percentages?