Brett
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Because Beck supports economic freedom and Kucinich supports foreign policy freedom.
The good is not the enemy to the pure.
He'd probably say abortion. The Judge and Beck both aren't libertarian there.
Because Beck supports economic freedom and Kucinich supports foreign policy freedom.
The good is not the enemy to the pure.
He'd probably say abortion. The Judge and Beck both aren't libertarian there.
Matt Collins
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Quit perpetuating the idea that libertarianism is pro-abortion
There are libertarians that are pro-life, and others who are pro-abortion. Although it is a logical fallacy to be libertarian and pro-abortion, there are people who consider themselves to be libertarian and want to allow the murder of unborn children. I obviously disagree with it, but it's not like there is a solid consensus among every libertarian on the issue.
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Brett
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Quit perpetuating the idea that libertarianism is pro-abortion
There are libertarians that are pro-life, and others who are pro-abortion. Although it is a logical fallacy to be libertarian and pro-abortion, there are people who consider themselves to be libertarian and want to allow the murder of unborn children. I obviously disagree with it, but it's not like there is a solid consensus among every libertarian on the issue.
Napolitano himself has come out saying that he describes himself as a "Pro-life libertarian". If he feels the need to distinguish it then I'd say it's pretty accepted.
Plus the libertarian platform, libertarian powerhouses like Rothbard, etc, all were pro-choice.
Quit perpetuating the idea that libertarianism is pro-abortion
There are libertarians that are pro-life, and others who are pro-abortion. Although it is a logical fallacy to be libertarian and pro-abortion, there are people who consider themselves to be libertarian and want to allow the murder of unborn children. I obviously disagree with it, but it's not like there is a solid consensus among every libertarian on the issue.
WTF? pro abortion, that's like when others calling us pro-racists.
ChaosControl
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Then anti-murder laws and anti-theft laws aren't libertarian either.
Matt Collins
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He probably felt the need to distinguish it because there is rampant ignorance out there about it, and it continues to be perpetuated; you're a prime example!
(sadly) the LP is irrelevant. Can you cite for me where Rothbard was pro-abortion?
As I have said, the libertarian position of being able to own your own body and the concept of dignity of the individual means that it is impossible to advocate abortion, a form of murder, and be libertarian.
Brett
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If he actually thought libertarians are majority pro-life he probably would have taken on the Democrat on freedomwatch on the last episode. Instead he shook it and asked his next question.
http://mises.org/rothbard/ethics/fourteen.asp
And I'm in agreement with you, but I doubt the majority of libertarians are.
Kregisen
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It all matters where you believe rights start at.
If you believe the unborn (up to a certain age) don't have rights then pro-choice is the libertarian stance.
If you believe the unborn have rights, then pro-life is the libertarian stance.
Ron Paul himself has delivered 4,000 babies and is very pro-life. One of his arguments is he can get sued if something happens with the unborn baby/fetus.....that would mean the fetus has rights.
It's probably pretty close to a 50-50 split for libertarians....I wouldn't say either is the more libertarian stance. It all depends on beliefs.
If you believe the unborn (up to a certain age) don't have rights then pro-choice is the libertarian stance.
If you believe the unborn have rights, then pro-life is the libertarian stance.
Ron Paul himself has delivered 4,000 babies and is very pro-life. One of his arguments is he can get sued if something happens with the unborn baby/fetus.....that would mean the fetus has rights.
It's probably pretty close to a 50-50 split for libertarians....I wouldn't say either is the more libertarian stance. It all depends on beliefs.
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Matt Collins
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Most of the libertarians I know are pro-life, but I live in the South. I am willing to bet there might be more pro-abortion libertarians the further west one travels.
VBRonPaulFan
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To me, it is even deeper than that. I think it depends on where you really believe life begins at. Conception? Birth? Somewhere in the middle? I don't think this is really a political issue but more of a moral one. Most people make the decision on whether they are for or against abortion based on their beliefs, their family and community influence, etc. I don't think the government should be involved with abortion either way. If you want to get one, you should find a doctor who shares your beliefs that will actually do the procedure. But aborting a birth affects you, your relationship with the person you conceived with, your family, etc.
MichelleHeart
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It is often said that life begins at 40. Is that open for interpretation? Can some person just go out and kill everyone under 40 if they happen to hold that belief? After all, making such a thing illegal infringes on a person's right to decide when life begins.
Do you have a source for this information? Rothbard has always struck me as pretty conservative; I would have put him in the "abortion is murder" camp, and maybe put Ayn Rand in the pro-choice camp. (But I'm probably wrong about both.)
Edit: Never mind, I googled it and it certainly seems that Rothbard was stridently pro-choice.
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VBRonPaulFan
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No, but there is a significant difference between a 40 year old man who can sustain himself and a fetus that would almost immediately die when removed from the mother. I personally believe that life begins at conception, but i'm not going want to force that belief on any woman and tell her she isn't in control of her body to abort the pregnancy if she so chooses. Maybe the reason this is such a sticky issue is because two lives are involved?
specsaregood
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How about a 40yr old on life support or a full-on quadriplegic?
VBRonPaulFan
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Good questions for someone who would want to end a pregnancy, I suppose.
Maybe if you keep referring to it as pro-abortion you'll win some people over to your side! Of course its possible that people who disagree with you on the issue would see you as a close minded jerk and disregard your whole platform because of it but why worry about that?
Matt Collins
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My thoughts exactly
Teaser Rate
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True, but I would also add the variable of whether or not someone believes the government can effectively reduce abortion rates if they believe it to be a morally wrong action.
In the same way government prohibition of drugs created a black market and more addicts, government prohibition of abortion might lead to similar unintended consequences. (see what happened in Mexico)
emazur
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DIY abortions. Who knows how many went by unnoticed. Or the women who could afford it would just travel to a country with legalized abortion and have it done there
YouTube - Techniques used by women before abortion was legal
ClayTrainor
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Most libertarians I know, including myself do not have a firm black & white position on abortion, and are sympathetic to both sides of the argument for various reasons.
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