something I don't understand when buying silver....

[oyarde]

When I was a kid of five and six I would steal a couple of quarters an go up and down th stores changing for rolls of pennies and pulling out the ones I didn't have or were in better grade condition, rerolling them and exchanging at the next store on the block.. I was a philatelist as well. A few months back I viewed a stamp collection worth over 50 million bucks with rows of rare US stamps. They fellow was quite surprised this long haired rock and roller could identify by name most of the rare stamps and give some history behind them.

Rev9

I gave my stamp collection to my daughter , I hope she kept it and all the Large Cents I gave her as a youngster ...

 

[Professor8000]

I don't know many people who are willing to take a 35% loss just like that, but ok.

It's about promoting the use of an alternate currency, in a SHTF situation the system would already be in place with enough people using it to become a self sustainable economy.

If you mean they'll be better because they have silver in hand, then they can do better by buying silver at cost.

It's actually about creating a working system that doesn't need the value of the FRN to sustain it, and the ones who have been preparing the longest will have obvious advantages than those late in the game.

If they share the concern about inflation, they should buy silver or whatever they believe will appreciate ASAP. why take silver at a loss profit?

It's the same reason someone will spend more money buying solar panels and wind turbines instead of just hooking up to the grid. It is an investment in a system that provides insulation from many factors that plague the existing system. It is not an investment in the metal itself, it's an investment in a system that that uses tangible goods as a medium for trade. It sometimes takes a loss of profit for the investment to be made, but the point is to have the system in place before serious inflation hits so that the merchants can just continue with their businesses while everyone else falls behind.

isn't that why face value is pointless?

It's only as pointless as the face value of FRNs considering how it's real value is constantly changing.

that's what I said. Mere suggestions, people who accept it at face value are simply stupid.

The face value is a reference and helps determine the fractional value of the different metals in the currency in relation to one another, as well as providing reference to FRNs.

Unless buying 5 large pizzas is regular practice for you, that's probably just his way of giving you a discount for buying 5 at a time. Ask him next time if you wanted just one pizza, would he give you 40 worthless FRN for change, or 40 copper rounds. Also, nobody buys silver at spot price, not unless you buy 500oz or more, that's my experience. Today typically buying rounds will cost you 10% premimum/spread. This is not to mention, you didn't buy the 1oz AOCS at spot price, did you?

Since the 1oz copper rounds have a face value of 2, it would be 20 in change. When using a barter currency you can't make change with FRNs or you are subject to the capital gains tax. Do you even understand the concept of how a currency works? Because it seems like you are stuck on the idea that silver needs to be kept to exchange for FRNs at a later date so as to gain more FRNs than was spent buying the silver. Personally, I believe all of that paper will be worthless soon anyway, so a currency that doesn't need paper to exist is needed so we don't find ourselves up shit creek bobbing for stink logs.

Since the price of AOCS medallions are directly tied to their respective spot prices, I referenced the spot price instead of the current price of the medallions.

 

[liberdom]

Numistmatics. The rarity of the specimen coupled to it's popularity.

HTH
Rev9

be careful though, often times numismatics is how dealers trick beginners into buying "rare" coins, when they can simply buy bullion. Even in bullion there are good reputable brands , but many will scare you into buying non-bullion, because that's where they can hype up the price or tell you bullion is confiscatable .

 

[liberdom]

repeat post deleted

 

[liberdom]

It's about promoting the use of an alternate currency, in a SHTF situation the system would already be in place with enough people using it to become a self sustainable economy.

It's actually about creating a working system that doesn't need the value of the FRN to sustain it, and the ones who have been preparing the longest will have obvious advantages than those late in the game.

How does this dismiss anything I said? Which is, if they simply wanted to have simple as an alternative barter method, they can buy silver rounds at $30-33 each, and not accept them at face value.

It's the same reason someone will spend more money buying solar panels and wind turbines instead of just hooking up to the grid.

Which is financially stupid for most homes. I spoke to a solar panel salesman lately, he basically told me anybody who spends less than $100 a month on electricity, would not make any sense installing solar panels. I admire people who believe in something to the point they'd be willing to lose money

It is an investment in a system that provides insulation from many factors that plague the existing system. It is not an investment in the metal itself, it's an investment in a system that that uses tangible goods as a medium for trade.

And I can add, you can barter any silver round at any value you like. Without the fact value suggestion.

It sometimes takes a loss of profit for the investment to be made, but the point is to have the system in place before serious inflation hits so that the merchants can just continue with their businesses while everyone else falls behind.

It's only as pointless as the face value of FRNs considering how it's real value is constantly changing.

the difference is for every person that'll take AOCS at face value, there's a million that'll take FRN at face value.

The face value is a reference and helps determine the fractional value of the different metals in the currency in relation to one another, as well as providing reference to FRNs.

Since the 1oz copper rounds have a face value of 2, it would be 20 in change. When using a barter currency you can't make change with FRNs or you are subject to the capital gains tax.

Oh, I didn't know that.

Do you even understand the concept of how a currency works? Because it seems like you are stuck on the idea that silver needs to be kept to exchange for FRNs at a later date so as to gain more FRNs than was spent buying the silver.

No, I must not understand it. Yes, I am stuck on the idea of having silver exchanged back to FRN, otherwise face value is meaningless.

Personally, I believe all of that paper will be worthless soon anyway, so a currency that doesn't need paper to exist is needed so we don't find ourselves up shit creek bobbing for stink logs.

Since the price of AOCS medallions are directly tied to their respective spot prices, I referenced the spot price instead of the current price of the medallions.

but current price of medallions is what you pay to get them to begin with. if you want to keep doing bad math, go ahead, you only have about $60 a month to mess with anyway.

 

[osan]

Silver is a base commodity. The ONLY considerations as such are its weight and purity. Therefore, the only consideration in transacting that sort of business is price. For the same weight and purity the only consideration should be the overall cost to acquire the commodity. It is a simple as that.

Any company charging more on the basis of a "superior" product is bullshitting you - unless they mean to claim that other brokers are selling tainted metal. That is certainly a possibility, but if the contention is going to be made then they will have to provide very convincing evidence to prove the assertion. That, of course, is not likely to be forthcoming. Therefore, you ignore such noise and go with the broker who will put metal in your hot little hands as reliably and inexpensively as possible.

Period.

 

[osan]

What's the difference from buying coins than regular silver bars?

Per se, none. There is, however, one possible wrinkle where coin may be a better investment: confiscation. There are several notable cases of governments unilaterally confiscating precious metals, usually with little or no compensation, by fiat. The bastard Roosevelt did this and the only people who escaped were those holding "antique" coins and jewelry.

Therefore, if you are going to stockpile PMs, it would be wise to consider the distinct possibility that Obammy or the next low-rent tyrant will declare a national "emergency" and mandate all persons turn in their gold objects. Given the capricious nature in all of this and the depths to which the tyrants have sunk these past few decades, it is possible that exceptions for jewelry and precious coins may not even be extended. Such is the cold viciousness of the current raft of vermin running the three-ring. But if perchance they show that much magnanimity, bullion will be the most undesirable form of PM and one will then be faced with the decision to turn it in, keep it illegally (rendering you a "criminal"), or having it converted to legal forms (which I do for a fee, BTW... silver/goldsmith here).

The ultimate truth here is that nobody knows what these lunatics will foist upon us next. If holding bullion becomes illegal, then the material becomes valueless in all markets save the black and transacting there is always risky business where prices are commensurate with the risk. These bastards have us by the balls, make no mistake about that. Personally, I will give up NOTHING. Not a stitch to these thieves in costly suits. Not a grain of metal (not that I really have much at this point), not a single firearm, dollar bill, nor a thread from my clothing. As far as I am concerned, they may all go home and kill their families and then themselves and make the world a better place. For that I would thank them, but will give them nothing more.

Get your metals and worry not much about the form. If shit comes to shove, you will be faced with making decisions in any event. The best case is that PMs are not confiscated - possible, but as the economic situation deteriorates, it becomes less likely an outcome. If they are and there are exceptions, get any bullion you hold into another form. Get things made into makeshift jewelry. It doesn't have to be pretty - it just has to be good enough to cut the mustard. If there are no exceptions, you are fucked.

Bullion tends to be less costly because there is no "value-added" in the coining process. I would go with that, personally, but there is one more possible concern: confidence. There is a confidence factor that silver/gold in COIN form is less likely to be counterfeited. Certainly it takes more work to counterfeit a coin than a bar of bullion. But crookedness being what it is, I can readily see people out there coining tungsten blanks and putting a goodly plate over it and calling it good. Short of cutting into every coin that comes across one's counter, one must simply trust that it is genuine, so once again I would not waste time on this. If things go so badly that we are reduced to these means of transacting business, I suspect purity may become a distantly secondary concern, meals and shelter taking center stage.

Good luck to you and to everyone. We may need it sooner than later.

 

[Okie RP fan]

Just from reading bits of an argument, I am willing to purchase silver at a "loss." As long as it stays within $20-$35, I will be buying because the way I look at it, long term, it will always increase in value, no matter what. Also, I am more concerned about setting myself up well enough if SHTF.

So I buy silver when it's $30 and the next week it's down to $26. I really don't care, I'm not going to worry about being picky at this point in time.

In regard to bars and coins, it's simple: as long as the coin is stamped pre 1964, you're good. As long as the bar is stamped .999, you're good (for the most part). Bars will be more accepted among people who know silver, as coins will be accepted by everyone, in a sense.

Invest in BOTH. That is the best advice.

 

[S.Shorland]

Buy some today

 

[oyarde]

Buy some today

Yep

 

[LibertyRevolution]

Silver is a base commodity. The ONLY considerations as such are its weight and purity. Therefore, the only consideration in transacting that sort of business is price. For the same weight and purity the only consideration should be the overall cost to acquire the commodity. It is a simple as that.

Any company charging more on the basis of a "superior" product is bullshitting you - unless they mean to claim that other brokers are selling tainted metal. That is certainly a possibility, but if the contention is going to be made then they will have to provide very convincing evidence to prove the assertion. That, of course, is not likely to be forthcoming. Therefore, you ignore such noise and go with the broker who will put metal in your hot little hands as reliably and inexpensively as possible.

Period.

Well... you are forgetting about liquidity.
That "Merry Christmas 2003" bar from an unknown mint is not as easy to move as a maple or an eagle.
They are going to offer you less than spot talking about melt charges..