Someone please explain to me how Health Care Reform violates the US Constitution.

[werealldoodshey]

I have not heard a well thought-out argument for this yet. I was hoping that the Ron Paul folks, who tend to be the smartest conservatives out there, had to say. Do you think health care reform is unconstitutional (specifically, the insurance mandate)? How? Why? What constitutional provision?

 

[Acala]

Easy

The Federal government is one of enumerated powers. In other words, it only has those legislative powers SPECIFICALLY granted to it in Article One, section 8. If the power is not listed there, it is denied to the Federal government and preserved to the States or to the people.

Ain't nothing in Article One, Section 8 granting the authority to create a mandatory health insurance plan. Therefore, Obamacare exceeds Constitutional authority. Hence, unconstitutional. Just like Social Security, Medicare, and most other Federal programs.

 

[Travlyr]

I have not heard a well thought-out argument for this yet. I was hoping that the Ron Paul folks, who tend to be the smartest conservatives out there, had to say. Do you think health care reform is unconstitutional (specifically, the insurance mandate)? How? Why? What constitutional provision?

Considering that the insurance mandate forces me (theft with threat of violence if I don't pay up) to subsidize your health care, how can it be moral or constitutional?

 

[werealldoodshey]

Considering that the insurance mandate forces me (theft with threat of violence if I don't pay up) to subsidize your health care, how can it be moral or constitutional?

...How is it unconstitutional? What provision of the constitution?

 

[werealldoodshey]

The Federal government is one of enumerated powers. In other words, it only has those legislative powers SPECIFICALLY granted to it in Article One, section 8. If the power is not listed there, it is denied to the Federal government and preserved to the States or to the people.

Ain't nothing in Article One, Section 8 granting the authority to create a mandatory health insurance plan. Therefore, Obamacare exceeds Constitutional authority. Hence, unconstitutional. Just like Social Security, Medicare, and most other Federal programs.

Commerce clause. Also, see Article VI, second clause: "This Constitution and the Laws of the United States...shall be the supreme Law of the Land..." which is the counterpart to the 10th Amendment that is rarely ever cited by "libertarians."

 

[werealldoodshey]

Also, you're confused. The Federal government is not one of the "enumerated powers." I think you're conflating that idea with the idea of separation of powers (which, of course, is also not found in the Constitution).

 

[low preference guy]

It has to do with whether the commerce clause can be used to force someone to buy a product.

Peter Schiff explains it at the beginning of the video. If you have more questions, let us know.

YouTube - Health Care Bill -- bad medicine & unconstititional

 

[low preference guy]

Also, you're confused. The Federal government is not one of the "enumerated powers." I think you're conflating that idea with the idea of separation of powers (which, of course, is also not found in the Constitution).

Wrong. Here is James Madison, the so-called Father of the Constitution.

"The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State."

Tenth Amendment:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

If the powers not deleted to the Federal Government are reserved to the states, then it follows that the Federal Government has enumerated powers, those explicitly delegated to them.

I'm just curious, do you think we have a "living Constitution"?

 

[Bruehound]

Article One Section Eight.

 

[low preference guy]

Clarence Thomas, Supreme Court Justice, agrees with us, James Madison, and the Tenth Amendment:

"If Congress can regulate this under the Commerce Clause, then it can regulate virtually anything—and the Federal Government is no longer one of limited and enumerated powers".

This is from Gonzales v. Raich, the ruling against medical marijuana in California.

 

[werealldoodshey]

I don't know how credible this guy is...He says that Constitutional scholars haven't read the Federalist Papers. Do you believe that? Honestly, do you believe that?

The problem here is that your side conflates the idea of the Constitution granting few powers to Congress with the idea that it proscribes it very specific powers. In fact, the powers listed are incredible broad: Regulation of interstate commerce, for example (why not use the appropriate example): what does that mean? What's commerce? These subtleties have been argued in our court system for nearly 250 years, and I think it's utterly disingenuous to dismiss centuries of jurisprudence in the manner that you are.

 

[Travlyr]

Commerce clause. Also, see Article VI, second clause: "This Constitution and the Laws of the United States...shall be the supreme Law of the Land..." which is the counterpart to the 10th Amendment that is rarely ever cited by "libertarians."

Commerce clause regulates States not individuals.

 

[werealldoodshey]

I'm not wrong; you're a poor reader. The Constitution enumerates powers to the federal government; the federal government is not an enumerated power. I suggest that you learn the difference between accusative and dative verb tenses.

 

[Bruehound]

Commerce clause. Also, see Article VI, second clause: "This Constitution and the Laws of the United States...shall be the supreme Law of the Land..." which is the counterpart to the 10th Amendment that is rarely ever cited by "libertarians."

If the framers intended the Commerce Clause and or General Welfare Clause to bestow the FedGov with plenary powers then it makes no sense whatsoever for them to specifically enumerate those listed in Article One Section 8. Go away troll.

 

[werealldoodshey]

Commerce clause regulates States not individuals.

Commerce clause does not regulate states.

 

[werealldoodshey]

How is an interpretation of the Constitution stating that I.8.iii allows Congress to pass health reform (on account of it being a regulation of interstate commerce, and therefore constitutional) the same as one bestowing the "FedGov" (very cheeky, will use in future) with "plenary" powers? That's a rather silly thing to say, don't you think?

 

[low preference guy]

I don't know how credible this guy is...He says that Constitutional scholars haven't read the Federalist Papers. Do you believe that? Honestly, do you believe that?

He's believable in my circle, but fine, probably not believable in yours. So let me propose you another "authority". Do you think Clarence Thomas, Justice of the Supreme Court is believable? See my post with his quote on page one, post number 10.

 

[werealldoodshey]

So, then, the "this" it refers to isn't Health Care? I'm sorry, but that's a non sequitur and I won't let you try to sneak that past. Anyway, in order for your argument to be complete you need to cite Madison, which you haven't yet done. And don't just say "it's in the constitution and Madison wrote the Constitution," because we were talking about the constitution to begin with and you still haven't formed an argument there, either.

 

[low preference guy]

So, then, the "this" it refers to isn't Health Care? I'm sorry, but that's a non sequitur and I won't let you try to sneak that past. Anyway, in order for your argument to be complete you need to cite Madison, which you haven't yet done. And don't just say "it's in the constitution and Madison wrote the Constitution," because we were talking about the constitution to begin with and you still haven't formed an argument there, either.

I was not arguing in that particular post that health care is unconstitutional. I was arguing that the Federal Government is one of limited and enumerated powers. Clarence Thomas:

"If Congress can regulate this under the Commerce Clause, then it can regulate virtually anything—and the Federal Government is no longer one of limited and enumerated powers".

 

[werealldoodshey]

i mean...who is he? Seriously, I've never heard of him. Perhaps he's an authority (oh there I go, with my slavish devotion to authority and the NWO, et al.) but I'm not familiar with him.