Some insider observations from living in socialist Sweden and comparing it to the USA

[raystone]

thanks for the excellent, detailed info Greencardseeker !

 

[Theocrat]

Thanks For the Inside Scoop of Swedish Politics

What an engaging and detailed perspective on Swedish politics! Thank you for sharing that with us here at RPF, and welcome to the forums. I took a "Comparative Politics" course once, and we discussed the government of Sweden. It seemed like a socialist State, to me, when I studied it, though my professor seemed to enjoy its political structure (I think he's a closet Communist, myself.).

I'm curious about the culture of the Christian church over there in Sweden. Are they typically statist in their approach to Swedish politics, or are they on the fringes of trying to promote liberty in government and society?

 

[zadrock]

I'd be interested to see the video. Whenever I mention how socialism doesn't work to a liberal, they invariably point to the socialist Nirvana that supposedly exists throughout Scandinavia. So it would be nice to be able to counter that claim. Good luck and thanks for the informative post.

Z

 

[The_Orlonater]

Welcome to the forums and great post! And it's great that an opinion like this is coming from a Swede too. You help this revolution a great lot!

 

[The_Orlonater]

What an engaging and detailed perspective on Swedish politics! Thank you for sharing that with us here at RPF, and welcome to the forums. I took a "Comparative Politics" course once, and we discussed the government of Sweden. It seemed like a socialist State, to me, when I studied it, though my professor seemed to enjoy its political structure (I think he's a closet Communist, myself.).

I'm curious about the culture of the Christian church over there in Sweden. Are they typically statist in their approach to Swedish politics, or are they on the fringes of trying to promote liberty in government and society?

Sweden is an atheist nation, and don't have let that have anything to do with their governmental system.

You know you don't want to get into this again.

 

[FreedomRings]

I'd love to see that video and if it is good I guarantee you that it will get more than 10,000 views.

I heard that the meaning of the Swedish word for "freedom" has been altered over time to be closely associated with "government", is that true?

Why is third world immigration so popular with the Swedish elite; do they really believe in it or is there another agenda?

 

[Truth Warrior]

Where do the Swedish corporations get the money to pay the employee matching income tax?

Thanks!

 

[hillertexas]

So I assume you have universal healthcare? Could you tell me what happens if you wake up one morning with a toothache? chest pains? I am curious about the actual logistics of universal healthcare. I mean...do you just make an appointment with a dentist?

 

[bill50]

Is 80% taxes really a social democracy? Shouldn't that qualify more as a communist country? America has unfortunately turned into a social democracy at what, 40% taxes?

 

[Fox McCloud]

Is 80% taxes really a social democracy? Shouldn't that qualify more as a communist country? America has unfortunately turned into a social democracy at what, 40% taxes?

Much MUCH higher if you calculate in inflation.


Either way, I'd definitely be interested in your documentary as well--I'll be looking forward to it!

also, what aspects in Swedish life are made free by the State? I assume health-care, entry, and college/university level education are all free...is there anything else?

Also, I heard that if you aren't working at all, you're guaranteed something like $125 a week for spending on anything you want--can you confirm/deny this?

I'd say your unregulated immigration issue wouldn't be a problem if you guys didn't have all your programs--I'd be willing to bet ANYTHING that the vast majority are going there just to get on all the government plans they can. Perhaps that's one reason they [the political elite in your country] want it? All those immigrants get on programs, want more of it, and like it...therefore it gives the elite more support in upcoming elections, and lets them carry on the falsity that "socialism is popular in Sweden!"

 

[Flash]

I wonder how long until the native indigineous Swedish people become an ethnic minority? Look at the massive waves of immigrants.

 

[GreenCardSeeker]

What an engaging and detailed perspective on Swedish politics! Thank you for sharing that with us here at RPF, and welcome to the forums. I took a "Comparative Politics" course once, and we discussed the government of Sweden. It seemed like a socialist State, to me, when I studied it, though my professor seemed to enjoy its political structure (I think he's a closet Communist, myself.).

I'm curious about the culture of the Christian church over there in Sweden. Are they typically statist in their approach to Swedish politics, or are they on the fringes of trying to promote liberty in government and society?

Up until a few years ago, Sweden had a Lutheran state church where the state exercised power over the church with nothing going in the opposite direction. Now the church has been separated from the state. Religion is quite a small matter in Sweden, attendance is scarce and church leaders have generally not commented on politics. The former head of the Swedish church, KG Hammar, who was the last one to be directly appointed by the government, was a very outspoken leftist though, pushing every socialist issue in the book. On top of that, his sister is a lesbian. This year, the Swedish church is going to take part in the gay pride parade in Stockholm, somehow scripture doesn't seem to matter that much to this church. KG Hammar expressed his support for an "art exhibition" portraying Jesus as a homosexual surrounded by men dressed in leather called Ecce Homo. Leftwing politicians around the country like to invite this exhibition to their towns to show how much they defy Christianity, even though the "art" really isn't very good for children to be exposed to.

Sweden does have a few active smaller churches though that don't follow the PC trend. The most well-known is the evangelical Livets Ord(word of life) headed by Ulf Ekman. He's got a bit of international renown, at least in Russia, from travelling there and preaching. Jehova's witnesses have a branch here too. These churches are generally described as dangerous cults here, since religion is so alien to the country. Many people like to take shots at Christianity in general, so life for Christians here is hard.

I guess the Swedish church has simply learned not to question the state if it wants to stay free from attacks.

 

[GreenCardSeeker]

I'd love to see that video and if it is good I guarantee you that it will get more than 10,000 views.

I heard that the meaning of the Swedish word for "freedom" has been altered over time to be closely associated with "government", is that true?

[/QUOTE

Hmm, leftists in general have tried to describe freedom as oppression, I suppose it's been more pronounced in Sweden. Capitalism has been described as wage slavery, and they've had the notion that the only way you can become free is if the state intervenes in lots of affairs.

Why is third world immigration so popular with the Swedish elite; do they really believe in it or is there another agenda?

The stated reason has been to help refugees from wars etc, yet not much interest has been shown in setting up refugee camps near the home countries of these refugees, in spite of them being able to help many more people for the same money if they did that. The refugees haven't been encouraged to return home after the conflicts in their home country are over either, it's quite apparent that the government intended them to come here permanently. The most rational explanation is that it's been a social experiment, they've intended to prove how superior their socialist system is by taking people from the third world and successfully integrating them in society and making them productive members.

It's been a complete failure though; The immigrants have been given all subsidies needed to settle, and been allowed to settle anywhere in the country. Yet they've chosen to gather in the same cities with their own people, showing a lack of interest in becoming part of Sweden. These cities like Malmö, Södertälje and Rinkeby have become immigrant ghettoes where crime is rampant and unemployment is extremely high. A recent development in Malmö is that they've violently tried to keep Swedes out of the parts of the city they dominate. Just a few months ago, it was reported that fire trucks have to have police escort when they go there, since the immigrants attack firefighters with rocks.

The government still claims all is well with immigration and keeps repeating the idea that it's been good to Sweden, even trying to prove an economic profit in spite of no new jobs having been created while roughly one million immigrants settled here. More realistic estimates by immigration critics have the cost of immigration at around $300 billion Swedish kr per year, or 10% of the GDP. These immigrants commit a majority of the violent crime in the country now. I was really surprised to see Obama visit the immigrant ghetto Södertälje to learn about integration here - what's to learn from a complete failure? I guess the Obama campaign must be quite ignorant.

 

[GreenCardSeeker]

Where do the Swedish corporations get the money to pay the employee matching income tax?

Thanks!

Small corporations have a really hard time and go broke a lot. These taxes have also caused the loss of many jobs to other countries since it's not as profitable to keep production here.

 

[GreenCardSeeker]

So I assume you have universal healthcare? Could you tell me what happens if you wake up one morning with a toothache? chest pains? I am curious about the actual logistics of universal healthcare. I mean...do you just make an appointment with a dentist?

Yep, universal health care, you pay only a fraction of the actual cost when visiting a doctor. I don't have that much experience with health care myself, being fairly fit, but the procedures I've needed have had me wait a long time. I'm in line to get surgery for an in-grown toe nail now, and have had to wait over four months so far for this simple procedure. If the appointment you finally get doesn't suit you, you have to start over again, people sometimes have a feeling that they get appointments just when they're on vacation, a strategy possibly used by the hospitals to manage queues.

Private healthcare is allowed though, but I'm not an expert on just what's subsidized and what isn't. When you visit a private dentist, you pay a minimum of a little over $100, along with roughly $100 per cavity. I'm not sure if these prices are subsidized or not. The public dentistry has really long lines on the other hand, the other year when I contacted them to get cheap dental care, I was told I would have to wait 6 months to enter the system. I assume once you're in the system, you won't have to wait as long for your regular appointments, but this makes it inconvenient for urgent problems of course. Generally you can get emergency care from private caregivers within a few days notice on the other hand. At least it works that way for problems like toothaches.

It can be a real hassle getting your right to elective procedures approved though, your problems have to be really disabling for them to want to finance them. Generally the state doesn't finance even major nuisances like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pectus_excavatum .

 

[GreenCardSeeker]

Much MUCH higher if you calculate in inflation.


Either way, I'd definitely be interested in your documentary as well--I'll be looking forward to it!

also, what aspects in Swedish life are made free by the State? I assume health-care, entry, and college/university level education are all free...is there anything else?

Yep, all education is free. Museums, art exhibitions and such are subsidized as well. I can't seem to come up with anything else that's free right now, but many areas of society are quietly subsidized as well I suppose, hard to be aware of all of them.

Also, I heard that if you aren't working at all, you're guaranteed something like $125 a week for spending on anything you want--can you confirm/deny this?

Yep, the welfare benefits are around that amount along with your rent paid. To qualify for this, you must look for whatever jobs the government tells you to as well as attend whatever employment measures or similar they see fit to provide. These are rarely effective ways of getting the people in them employed, but more something provided for the profit of the service providers, generally a waste of time. Declining to take part leaves you with absolutely no state financing though.

I'd say your unregulated immigration issue wouldn't be a problem if you guys didn't have all your programs--I'd be willing to bet ANYTHING that the vast majority are going there just to get on all the government plans they can. Perhaps that's one reason they [the political elite in your country] want it? All those immigrants get on programs, want more of it, and like it...therefore it gives the elite more support in upcoming elections, and lets them carry on the falsity that "socialism is popular in Sweden!"

Yep, it sure has provided a solid foundation for the election victories of the social democrats. It would be interesting to see voters divided by ethnic origin, but the state doesn't provide such information.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

GreenCardSeeker - may I repost the original article to alt.politics.republican on Usenet in reply to a poster who is calling for the US to adopt the Swedish model of economics and Government?

 

[GreenCardSeeker]

GreenCardSeeker - may I repost the original article to alt.politics.republican on Usenet in reply to a poster who is calling for the US to adopt the Swedish model of economics and Government?

Sure. You can tell them it's a 31 year old Swede that's gradually lost faith in his society from his experiences with it.

 

[AutoDas]

How did you come to be so liberty conscious in such a political society? Parents, friends, or were you always this smart?

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Sure. You can tell them it's a 31 year old Swede that's gradually lost faith in his society from his experiences with it.

Thank you so much. I'll keep the thread up to date with any responses about it.