Solutions for Those with Pre existing Conditions

[It Takes an Individual]

Hey everyone, I just joined these forums so I apologize since there may already be a thread like this, but I am having trouble taking a free market stance on this issue. Like many other Americans who have this problem, my father often makes a point in support of Obamacare using the fact that he has lived his life with juvenile (type 1) diabetes and has been mostly unable to get health insurance. While I understand that no government philosophy leads to a utopia, and certainly not one with the measures made in Obamacare, I am having trouble figuring what government nonintervention could do to fix this issue. Obviously the main culprit here is the insurance companies, but at this point unfortunately everyone is dependent on them despite their practices. I have learned of the many free market solutions in terms of lowering health care costs and raising the quality of health care, but there are many other issues that must be dealt with. I am sick of hearing conservative politicians defending insurance companies with the argument that "well, no car insurance company should be forced to cover automobiles that are already broken down". I do believe in property/contract rights, but so many Americans are denied health insurance without Obamacare.
With all this said, I do however understand the consequences of Obamacare (lower quality care, higher costs, rationing, etc.), but is there any other solution? Maybe through tax incentives for health insurance companies?

Well, any answers to my question would truly be helpful, I am really glad I joined these forums. Ron Paul 2012!

 

[wrestlingwes_8]

Hey everyone, I just joined these forums so I apologize since there may already be a thread like this, but I am having trouble taking a free market stance on this issue. Like many other Americans who have this problem, my father often makes a point in support of Obamacare using the fact that he has lived his life with juvenile (type 1) diabetes and has been mostly unable to get health insurance. While I understand that no government philosophy leads to a utopia, and certainly not one with the measures made in Obamacare, I am having trouble figuring what government nonintervention could do to fix this issue. Obviously the main culprit here is the insurance companies, but at this point unfortunately everyone is dependent on them despite their practices. I have learned of the many free market solutions in terms of lowering health care costs and raising the quality of health care, but there are many other issues that must be dealt with. I am sick of hearing conservative politicians defending insurance companies with the argument that "well, no car insurance company should be forced to cover automobiles that are already broken down". I do believe in property/contract rights, but so many Americans are denied health insurance without Obamacare.
With all this said, I do however understand the consequences of Obamacare (lower quality care, higher costs, rationing, etc.), but is there any other solution? Maybe through tax incentives for health insurance companies?

Well, any answers to my question would truly be helpful, I am really glad I joined these forums. Ron Paul 2012!

The main problem is the cost of healthcare, that is what makes healthcare inaccessible to so many people. Modern medicine has all their fancy gadgets, tests, and prescription medications, which cost a ton of money, but have failed to cure any chronic condition in the last 100 years. Modern medicine is a joke and is one of today's "flat earths". I highly recommend you look into natural, holistic, or homeopathic remedies. Thousands of people have cured themselves of all types of diabetes simply by changing their eating habits. By switching to a diet consisting mostly of vegetables and fruits and reducing the meat and dairy intakes, your father could cure his condition.

As for the country as a whole, it's a no-brainer; we simply have to change the way we eat! Less processed foods, meats, dairies, sugar, caffeine, and oils would drastically reduce healthcare costs in this country. So many people whine and complain about healthcare in this country as they drink a Coke and shove more french fries down their throat. It's ridiculous that our culture has reached a point where they view vegetables as "disgusting" or "rabbit food" and think that vegetarians are just a bunch of homos or girls. We have traded this destructive, fast-paced lifestyle for our overall health and well-being. My suggestion, slow your life down, plant a garden, and just relax; eliminating stress is very important.

I highly recommend you watch a documentary called "Forks Over Knives"; it's on Netflix but you might be able to find a free version online somewhere. If not "A Beautiful Truth" is another good one that I know is free on the internet.

 

[phill4paul]

Individual states could pass laws requiring that insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions. States currently require mandates. From Idaho with 14 mandates to Minnesota with 63. Of course with these mandates comes a higher price.
Individual states also offer low cost or free insurance to low income individuals as well as those that are unemployable.
It all goes back to allowing the states to set there own guidelines instead of a federal one plan fits all approach.

 

[Isaac Bickerstaff]

The answer is in the title of the thread,"Solutions for Those with Pre existing Conditions". Homeopathy. Cheap, effective and could most likely manage or even cure the diabetes. Tell the medical industry and all their finger puppets in government that we don't need them.

 

[wrestlingwes_8]

Individual states could pass laws requiring that insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions. States currently require mandates. From Idaho with 14 mandates to Minnesota with 63. Of course with these mandates comes a higher price.
Individual states also offer low cost or free insurance to low income individuals as well as those that are unemployable.
It all goes back to allowing the states to set there own guidelines instead of a federal one plan fits all approach.

More laws, at the local, state or federal levels, are not the answer. Laws never have been the answer. The answer is freedom but with freedom also comes PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. You are responsible for making sure you are healthy. Want to stay healthy and live longer with fewer problems? Exercise, plant a garden, and reduce your stress; those are the keys to good health.

 

[wrestlingwes_8]

The answer is in the title of the thread,"Solutions for Those with Pre existing Conditions". Homeopathy. Cheap, effective and could most likely manage or even cure the diabetes. Tell the medical industry and all their finger puppets in government that we don't need them.

Exactly +rep

 

[phill4paul]

More laws, at the local, state or federal levels, are not the answer. Laws never have been the answer. The answer is freedom but with freedom also comes PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. You are responsible for making sure you are healthy. Want to stay healthy and live longer with fewer problems? Exercise, plant a garden, and reduce your stress; those are the keys to good health.

States may enact whichever laws the citizens allow based on their constitution. The federal government has no such power granted to it and these issues are reserved to the states. There are many medical conditions in which a healthy diet and stressless lifestyle is not enough to correct the condition.

 

[wrestlingwes_8]

States may enact whichever laws the citizens allow based on their constitution. The federal government has no such power granted to it and these issues are reserved to the states. There are many medical conditions in which a healthy diet and stressless lifestyle is not enough to correct the condition.

Just because they have the Constitutional power to do so, does NOT mean that is the answer. Also, your assertion that there are many conditions that can't be treated with diet is false. There are actually very very few conditions that can't be treated with a strict regiment of organic vegetables and fruits.

 

[leonster]

Just because they have the Constitutional power to do so, does NOT mean that is the answer. Also, your assertion that there are many conditions that can't be treated with diet is false. There are actually very very few conditions that can't be treated with a strict regiment of organic vegetables and fruits.

Spinal paralysis? ....just saying.

 

[No Free Beer]

More laws, at the local, state or federal levels, are not the answer. Laws never have been the answer. The answer is freedom but with freedom also comes PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. You are responsible for making sure you are healthy. Want to stay healthy and live longer with fewer problems? Exercise, plant a garden, and reduce your stress; those are the keys to good health.

I am not defending obamacare or the OP's vision, but I will say, as I'm sure you are aware, diabetes can also be a caused by heredity. So. it's not just as easy as eating healthy. You can def. do a lot with the right eating habits, but it doesn't completely erase the fact that a person has diabetes. They do need medication to control it.

 

[MelissaWV]

The OP is discussing Type One, which he said pretty clearly. Saying "you can cure this with lifestyle choice" is just demonstrating your own ignorance on the subject.

* * *

Insurance is, by definition, something you are taking out for the "just in case" scenario. If everyone can take out a pre-existing condition policy, then no one would ever have regular health insurance. Apply this to car insurance. I could get into a wreck, buy a policy, then demand they repair my car. Sounds dumb, no? Well, someone born with a health condition is not taking out "insurance." They are taking out a payment plan.

There are basic payment plans available for hospitalization, pharmacy, treatment, and diagnosis steps.

 

[LibertyEagle]

The OP is discussing Type One, which he said pretty clearly. Saying "you can cure this with lifestyle choice" is just demonstrating your own ignorance on the subject.

* * *

Insurance is, by definition, something you are taking out for the "just in case" scenario. If everyone can take out a pre-existing condition policy, then no one would ever have regular health insurance. Apply this to car insurance. I could get into a wreck, buy a policy, then demand they repair my car. Sounds dumb, no? Well, someone born with a health condition is not taking out "insurance." They are taking out a payment plan.

There are basic payment plans available for hospitalization, pharmacy, treatment, and diagnosis steps.

The problem with that is the fact that people without insurance, or those with insurance that does not have negotiated rates, are charged up to 4 TIMES the amount that the same health provider would receive from an insurance company. To me, this is the biggest problem.

It's one thing to pay close to the same amount for a procedure, it's another to be financially raped.

 

[angelatc]

Your father doesn't want insurance - he wants somebody else to pay for his condition.

I don't want to. I have my own conditions to worry about. And if he works, there's already a clause in the law prohibiting the insurance company from refusing to accept him on a group policy.

In a free market, he would have to pay higher rates because he's going to use more resources. Obviously, that's something he doesn't want to hear.

 

[MelissaWV]

The problem with that is the fact that people without insurance, or those with insurance that does not have negotiated rates, are charged up to 4 TIMES the amount that the same health provider would receive from a healthcare provider. To me, this is the biggest problem.

It's one thing to pay close to the same amount for a procedure, it's another to be financially raped.

Not in my experience... but I can see where that might happen. Then again, private-pay patients are a much larger financial risk than those coming through an established insurance company.

 

[angelatc]

The problem with that is the fact that people without insurance, or those with insurance that does not have negotiated rates, are charged up to 4 TIMES the amount that the same health provider would receive from a healthcare provider. To me, this is the biggest problem.

It's one thing to pay close to the same amount for a procedure, it's another to be financially raped.

People without insurance need to shop around, and that crap would stop. We haven't had insurance for 2 years now, and we always pay less than what our insurance company paid once they find out that we don't have insurance and are price shopping. Our office visit was $125 when we were insured, now it's $55.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Not in my experience... but I can see where that might happen. Then again, private-pay patients are a much larger financial risk than those coming through an established insurance company.

It is not a maybe. It is a fact. 60 Minutes even had a show about it a few years back.

Financial risk has nothing to do with it. They send you the bill after the procedure and stick it to you. Especially hospitals, who admit they use this opportunity to get some of the money back that they are forced to spend on illegal aliens, etc.

There is little to no competition in healthcare and that is largely caused by government interference. With the jacked-up prices also caused by government interference, it makes it almost impossible to live without health insurance. If you have a pre-existing condition that causes you to be turned down for insurance, you are basically screwed twice. The second time, because if you do not have insurance, you also do not have access to the negotiated rates and thus are charged up to 4X the amount.

This is way screwed up.

 

[MelissaWV]

It is not a maybe. It is a fact. 60 Minutes even had a show about it a few years back.

Financial risk has nothing to do with it. They send you the bill after the procedure and stick it to you. Especially hospitals, who admit they use this opportunity to get some of the money back that they are forced to spend on illegal aliens, etc.

Oddly I neither experience this, nor do this, and I am a medical biller. Billing patients as private pay ensures that a large number will just never pay at all. It's money out the window, and you cannot repo the time and medical procedures which were expended on the patient. The employees who rendered the care, and the supplies which were used, and the hospital bed which was taken up, and the time which cannot be recovered... those were already paid out by the company providing the care. There is no way to not pay a nurse and say "sorry; your patient didn't pay their bill."

People without insurance or with massive copays/co-insurance generally have to pay something up front since we are not emergency care. You will see more and more places going to this. As far as emergency care, when you are "stuck" with a bill, try negotiating it down or asking about the hospital's charity care program. You'd be surprised.

 

[LibertyEagle]

People without insurance need to shop around, and that crap would stop. We haven't had insurance for 2 years now, and we always pay less than what our insurance company paid once they find out that we don't have insurance and are price shopping. Our office visit was $125 when we were insured, now it's $55.

Try going to the hospital.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Oddly I neither experience this, nor do this, and I am a medical biller. Billing patients as private pay ensures that a large number will just never pay at all. It's money out the window, and you cannot repo the time and medical procedures which were expended on the patient. The employees who rendered the care, and the supplies which were used, and the hospital bed which was taken up, and the time which cannot be recovered... those were already paid out by the company providing the care. There is no way to not pay a nurse and say "sorry; your patient didn't pay their bill."

People without insurance or with massive copays/co-insurance generally have to pay something up front since we are not emergency care. You will see more and more places going to this. As far as emergency care, when you are "stuck" with a bill, try negotiating it down or asking about the hospital's charity care program. You'd be surprised.

Maybe it is different in your state. I do know what I am talking about in my own state. Charity care is for those who have absolutely no money. Until you are in that position, they feel free to financially rape you until you ARE in that place. You try paying 4 times the amount and see how long it takes you.

And no, I wouldn't be surprised about negotiating. They simply do not.

 

[angelatc]

Try going to the hospital.

My husband had a stroke in September. Wanna try again?