So under RP how would something like this pan out?

There will be an EPA. Despite what the leftists from reddit and the purists from here tell you, his plan doesn't eliminate the EPA.
 
This would be something for the courts to decide. The home owners would sue the drillers for polluting their water supply. The state agency should be playing a bigger role in this as the EPA noted. The drilling company would likely lose their ass in such a suit because all of the proper precautions were not taken before drilling and they subsequently put these people at great risk. It looks like the CDC were the ones to get the EPA involved, or the other way around. It also appears the ODNR is in collusion with the drillers meaning a suit should be filed against them as well. Why the initial suit from 2010 was withdrawn I have no clue but there is more to this story than the article gets into.
 
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http://www.ohio.com/news/local/thre...-well-water-is-potentially-explosive-1.255525

In this case it seems like the state was on the wrong and the feds helped out the homeowners via the EPA.

But if there's no EPA what would be the outcome under Paul?

In cases like this, Dr. Paul's arguments take a step-by-step approach by starting with the basic idea of property rights.
  • The homeowners own their home and land. They also own the clean water that is produced in it.
  • Taking away the clean water from the homeowner's land is a violent act. It damages the homeowner's property (clean water).
  • Engaging in actions that endanger the homeowners (such as producing large quantities of methane gas that leak into the home) is a violent act that damages the homeowner's property (safe home).
  • Under a legal system that protects property rights, the homeowners could immediately sue the companies that are infringing upon their property rights.
  • Under a legal system that relies on the EPA to determine what is okay and not okay, the homeowners are at the mercy of the EPA.
  • Under such a system, the homeowners are dependent on the EPA to make a correct decisions in a timely manner.
  • The EPA, being an bureaucratic agency filled with unelected officials, is an agency that can be lobbied.
  • If the EPA decides that polluting your water "a little" is okay, then you must accept it.
  • What "a little" means can be a very important definition. Lobbyists may (and do) affect such definitions by microscopic amounts because for industries, that microscopic amount may mean millions of dollars.
  • For your life, that extra microscopic amount allowed under the EPA regulations might be the difference between living and dying (cancer, anyone?)
  • In Dr. Paul's world, your property rights would be protected by a jury of your peers in a courtroom.
  • ...and not some unelected officials whose identities are well-known to the big corporations beforehand.

I would like to point out that the agency responsible for EPA-like duties regarding off-shore drilling, the Mineral Management Service (whose officials were having sex with oil company employees, receiving gifts from oil company employees, and using drugs with oil company employees SOURCE: http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2010/0...nizing-porn-and-dru-45260.html?pagewanted=all), allowed the Gulf oil spill to take place and allowed the oil companies to get away with paying minimal damages to property owners living on the Gulf coast. Guess what they did after the scandal broke? They changed the name of the agency, hoping that no one would notice (SOURCE: http://blog.al.com/live/2010/06/gulf_oil_spill_minerals_manage.html).

Just because things turned out okay with the EPA does not mean that the EPA system is a good system.

EDIT: I would also like to point out that in this particular scenario, the state had an EPA-like agency of its own that failed. Think of it as EPA-b. There is no reason why the EPA itself should be immune to the same problems that exist with the state-level system. It was only a matter of luck that the EPA did not fall flat on its face this time. There is a certain liberal snootiness that always equates local officials with "country hicks" or "provincial doofuses" (you might have seen it on many liberal-leaning comedy programs) and assigns a greater level of competence and honesty to federal officials without any justification for doing so. The EPA doing things in a relatively okay manner this time was not due to any inherent "federal superiority" but to just plain dumb luck.
 
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In all seriousness on his page it says he would eliminate the EPA: http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/energy/

Ron Paul isn't actually going to end the EPA the first moment he walks into the Oval Office. :p

Take a look at Ron Paul's Plan to Restore America. You'll notice that the Environmental Protection Agency will still be in operation — but at 30% reduction from FY2006 funding levels.

Philosophically, yes. Ron Paul wants an end to all these big government and inefficient agencies. But for practical purposes, Pres. Paul won't just shut down an agency with 17,000 full-time employees. If anybody leaves, it will be through attrition.

Ron Paul also won't be ending Pell Grants or student loans. He won't be ending payments to people who depend on Social Security or Medicare. He won't be ending of the Federal Reserve. He won't be ending the income tax.

At least, not immediately.

When elected President, Ron Paul will be in a position to prepare an environment of calm transition away from all these crippling programs. Despite what the media tries to drum up, Ron Paul isn't going to lead us all into a state of anarchy with roads suddenly disappearing, students put in debtors' prisons, seniors huddling around fire barrels, and corporations running wild polluting everything. :rolleyes:

Paul has a sensible plan to consolidate departments, cut down the national debt, maintain a strong national defense, take care of people in need, reduce corruption, and protect the environment through strict enforcement of property rights. :)





As President, Ron Paul will lead the fight to:

  • Eliminate the ineffective EPA. Polluters should answer directly to property owners in court for the damages they create – not to Washington.





Just because things turned out okay with the EPA does not mean that the EPA system is a good system.


And when things turn out bad with the EPA, they turn out really bad for homeowners:


Last week the Supreme Court heard arguments in Sackett v. EPA, a case of blatant federal agency overreach and abuse of private property rights. Without any proof or reason, and no chance for appeal, the Environmental Protection Agency determined that a small single home lot was a “protected wetland.” The owners, Mike and Chantell Sackett, were ordered to halt construction already underway, to remove all of the work already done, and plant trees and shrubs consistent with a wetlands environment. After making these costly changes, the Sackets then would have to wait several years for the EPA to decide if they would be allowed the use of their own property. Refusal to comply with these outrageous and arbitrary commandments would result in daily fines greater than the value of the property!

 
Weigh the overall consequences.

On balance, does the EPA do more harm than good? Would it perhaps be better if those functions were delegated to courts and states and treated as what they are, property rights/ externality issues?

That said, as mentioned, Ron Paul doesn't eliminate the EPA in his plan and it would be impossible to pass that.
 
How do you know I'm on reddit?! Are you some sort of mind wizard or just a stalker!?

In all seriousness on his page it says he would eliminate the EPA: http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/energy/

uh, no, it says he would eliminate ENERGY which is mostly subsidies to corporations. He'd move nuclear oversight to defense. He would not eliminate EPA that was a fake, joke ad done by Conan OBrien, spoofing Ron's 'Big Dog' ad.

I do see the 'lead the fight to', but that is a 'in the direction of' crusade, not an expectation of success. He has a three year plan which will start with HIS first budget in his second year, so it is his entire term. It is his plan to restore America: http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/ron-paul-plan-to-restore-america/
 
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The five bureaus he wants to completely eliminate:

Education, energy, commerce, interior and housing/urban development. Just like it says on his website. The EPA is not one of those five.

He has said the federal government does have a role in curbing pollution, as pollution crosses state lines.
 
Thanks guys, this is one major sticking point for some of my self-anointed "liberal" friends who still think RP isn't a viable candidate.
 
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