So is Pope Francis the Ron Paul of popes?

[Christian Liberty]

It's debatable whether they did or didn't. But I wouldn't put stock into them. They were fallible men (saved or unsaved is questionable) that said some good things and some bad things.

You know, I don't know much about Calvin, but the fact that you could seriously wonder if Luther was unsaved, considering how much he struggled with the reality of his own sin, only to ultimately realize that men are justified through faith rather than works, a man who CLEARLY did not rely on himself for salvation, because he may have questioned the specifics of particular redemption is a problem, IMO.

This is why I'm telling you that not everyone who isn't a 5-pointer is the same. This is a very extreme case of what I'm talking about. One of my aunts now, or my mother 10 years ago, are other ones. Neither one would (have) professed belief in "limited atonement" or "election" but neither trusted in themselves for Salvation either.

Ultimately you're right that these judgments need to be left with God, but honestly, if Luther didn't understand God's grace, I seriously doubt you do either. And that goes for me too.

 

[V3n]

I thought this topic looked fun.. Comparing the Pope's views with RP's views.

Not fun: Discussing the offensiveness of a picture depicting RP as the Pope; and the continuing saga between Calvinism and Catholicism.

This is why we can't have nice things!

 

[Natural Citizen]

Wesleyans might as well swim back over the Tiber river to Rome.

This reminds of a question I've been wondering about. What's the gag with the fish hat and the Pope?

 

[cajuncocoa]

Wesleyans might as well swim back over the Tiber river to Rome.

I'm guessing you believe John Wesley wasn't saved? (not that I'm surprised, of course.)

You're not going to agree with me on this, but I do see a difference between claiming that a Christian can outright claim apostasy and thus lose his salvation, and saying that a Christian can actually sin his way out of salvation. I'm confident in saying the latter is definitely damnable because its clearly another form of conditionalism. Whereas people who believe you can lose your Salvation via apostasy still aren't outright professing a gospel of works, they believe in salvation by faith, and that you can lose your salvation by no longer having faith.

Its a heresy, yes, but I do see a distinction between the two.

I REALLY, REALLY wish the two of you would stop doing this in EVERY thread that references Catholicism. Seriously.