So instead of a sh0tgun...

[fisharmor]

GLOCKs are unique in the firearms world for two reasons.

1. The company name is capitalized, as if they were so awesome that even the name of the thing needs to be shouted.

2. True haters of GLOCKs fall into one of two categories: either they have no experience with them, or they have so much that they're nitpicking details.

I fall squarely in that last category.

When I was looking for my EDC, I really didn't want a GLOCK. But this is the way the argument went in my head:

***PROS***
Parts are readily available.
Aftermarket accessories are available and cheap and all over the place.
There is literally nothing you can do to a pistol that someone hasn't already done to a GLOCK.
The reliability is unparalleled.
The number of moving parts is incredibly low.
Short reset trigger. (If you don't know what this is, find out.)

***CONS***
I find the trigger to be a bit too narrow.
I don't want to be like everyone else.
It naturally points a little too high.


So after I bought my G26, I got over the narrow trigger, I realized that not wanting to be like everyone else isn't a valid reason for not choosing the best option, and I realized that naturally pointing high can be beneficial, because it naturally puts the front dot in a position where you can bring it down in between the rear dots. It's less fiddling with aiming.

That, and I came to the sad realization that Steyr just wasn't going anywhere with their pistols. (Though if they did, I'd totally be carrying an S9 every day.)

 

[osan]

If you are not widely experienced with handguns, I would recommend you shoot as many different pistols as you can before making your decision. You may think you like the Glock, but further experience may find one you like even better. I am not a fan of the Glock - their triggers are not to my liking, but that may make no matter to others. Have you tried a 1911? Finest design in the world, thus far. I used to carry one daily. I now carry an XD Subcompact in .40 loaded very hot, but I will be returning to the 45 ACP as it is a favorite. I would also consider a 38 SuperAuto. I did once have a S&W PPC gun in 38 Super and it was a divine pistol. 38 Super ballistics are essentially identical to 357 magnum and they tend to be dead-nuts accurate with readily manageable push.

If you've not tried the menu, I would suggest you do so before buying... unless you are very cash rich and want to get one of everything.

 

[WesSeid]

1911s are so overrated. Big, heavy, harder disassembly than many other guns, unreliable (on average compared to various other guns), and you get a whole 8 rounds for your efforts.

Glocks are a more practical gun, though I personally dislike them mainly but not entirely for ergonomic reasons, but it's hard to go wrong with that "kind" of gun.

 

[tod evans]

Whatever you use be sure you can manufacture your own ammo.....Unless you expect Walmart to always stock it for you.

 

[TheTexan]

Whatever you use be sure you can manufacture your own ammo.....Unless you expect Walmart to always stock it for you.

Alternatively just buy a shitload now and hope you don't ever run out

 

[tod evans]

Alternatively just buy a shitload now and hope you don't ever run out

Gets kinda expensive/heavy and draws attention...

 

[osan]

***PROS***
The reliability is unparalleled.

Well that simply is not true. Any minimally decent 1911 will easily meet Glock reliability and probably surpass it. The reliability of the 1911 is legendary and well earned.

I realized that naturally pointing high can be beneficial, because it naturally puts the front dot in a position where you can bring it down in between the rear dots. It's less fiddling with aiming.

I cannot agree on this point. A gun should point naturally dead-on or as close as possible to it. If a gun is not doing this, then you probably need to be using a different one. One thing you learn in competitive shooting is to disregard the rear sight except in the most general way. The front sight is really all you should be using in a combat situation. There is no time to futz with lining things up. The key to effective self defense with a firearm is to put as much lead on target in the shortest possible time interval. If, for example, you have a full stack XD with 20 rounds on hand, you should be able to dump the mag into a target in not more than 8 seconds, and even that is kind of a long time, but I would call it minimally acceptable, especially if you are scoring good hits.

An excellent drill that should be practiced regularly and frequently by all persons is to dump 6 rounds into a man-sized target as rapidly as possible. When you can get your times well under 2 seconds with 5 hits for 5 rounds, you will be in a reasonably good state of combat marksmanship. This should be practiced a LOT. With this one should be properly instructed in how to hold the pistol - something in which many people are in ignorance. For example, a common error is to place the left thumb over the right when shooting right-handed. WRONG. The thumb of the trigger hand should be atop that of the supporting hand. The supporting hand should be drawing very firmly backward on the lower portion of the trigger hand such that the force applied counteracts the recoil. Your trigger hand should not be doing much to resist recoil; it should be pointing the weapon and pulling the trigger. The other hand's job is to steady the weapon against recoil. For those of your with problems getting your weapon back on target after a shot is fired should go to the range right now and try this alteration. You will likely find that your rapid fire marksmanship improves notably almost immediately. This morning I loaded the 686 and emptied it in under 1.5 seconds, all rounds on target. This is not particularly impressive by any competitive standard, but is probably good enough if ever I am forced to plug a bad guy. Were I executing my drills under 1 second I would call myself in the ballpark of serious world-class competition. Sadly, I can make no pretense to such abilities.

As a yardstick, I offer Jerry Miculek as the standard of envy. He can put 12 rounds on target from a 6-shot revolver in under 3 seconds. If he had a 12 round revolver the time would be just over one second. THAT is shooting. If you doubt, feast your aspirations upon this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLk1v5bSFPw

 

[Pericles]

From the sandbox:

"When it comes to pistols, there are two groups of soldiers. Those who are carrying 1911s, and those who wish they were."

 

[osan]

1911s are so overrated.

Clearly you have never shot a good 1911. I have shot world-class 1911 race guns in 40, 10mm, 45, 38 super, and they are absolutely fantastic. The 1911 runs away with "best pistol". A Glock, however gussied up, cannot hold a candle to a proper 1911. I whole heartedly recommend you find someone with such a pistol and spend an afternoon running lead through it.

Big, heavy, harder disassembly than many other guns, unreliable (on average compared to various other guns), and you get a whole 8 rounds for your efforts.

My 1911s were light, disassembly never the least worry for me, more reliable than any other pistols I have owned save my revolvers, and there are plenty of double stack frames available. You need to get yourself some edumacation on 1911s because you clearly do not know about them.

Glocks are a more practical gun, though I personally dislike them mainly but not entirely for ergonomic reasons, but it's hard to go wrong with that "kind" of gun.

As for Glocks being "more practical", this is code-speak for "safer for careless and less-adept handlers", IOW more idiot resistant. A 1911 requires a different mindset and if you are going to be an unmindful sort, then by all means stay away from a 1911 because they demand a level of responsibility in action and thought that the typical Glock owner may be unwilling to assume.

 

[QuickZ06]

1911s are so overrated. Big, heavy, harder disassembly than many other guns, unreliable (on average compared to various other guns), and you get a whole 8 rounds for your efforts.

Glocks are a more practical gun, though I personally dislike them mainly but not entirely for ergonomic reasons, but it's hard to go wrong with that "kind" of gun.

Sorry but the gun is amazing and flawless. To think it is still one of the most used handguns and it just hit 100 years. DANG!!!!

 

[Pericles]

Sorry but the gun is amazing and flawless. To think it is still one of the most used handguns and it just hit 100 years. DANG!!!!

Similar to the story with ARs - the design works very well, and then people feel the need to tinker with it by changing ammo type, mess with barrel length, internal firing mechanism, and so on. Then, they wonder why it doesn't work so well.

 

[WesSeid]

Any minimally decent 1911 will easily meet Glock reliability and probably surpass it. The reliability of the 1911 is legendary and well earned.

Gun forums are filled with people who will say how their 1911 doesn't like this or that ammo or doesn't like hollow points at all, while their Glock or similar guns eat anything. If by "reliability" you mean a Glock will have a catastrophic failure before a 1911 does, I could give it that one, but we're still talking 10s of thousands of rounds before that would happen.

Clearly you have never shot a good 1911. I have shot world-class 1911 race guns in 40, 10mm, 45, 38 super, and they are absolutely fantastic. The 1911 runs away with "best pistol". A Glock, however gussied up, cannot hold a candle to a proper 1911. I whole heartedly recommend you find someone with such a pistol and spend an afternoon running lead through it.

Nice to know "world-class" 1911s you've shot have been fantastic. Most people can't afford "world-class" 1911s. Even a Kimber costs more than a lowly Glock, and the newer ones of those are trash.

Let's throw out the obvious comparison. A 1911 is like an old Ferrari; a Glock is like a new Toyota. The Ferrari can impress if gussied up and maintenance is kept up and you tweak this or that and keep it out of the snow, while if you want something that just plain works without messing with it and starts every time, you drive the Toyota.

My 1911s were light, disassembly never the least worry for me, more reliable than any other pistols I have owned save my revolvers, and there are plenty of double stack frames available. You need to get yourself some edumacation on 1911s because you clearly do not know about them.

Just because disassembly is no worry "for you" doesn't mean it's not worse for disassembly than a Glock is.

Anyone who says 1911s are light is clearly the one who needs an edumacation about guns.

I like 1911s far more than I like Glocks. In fact, I don't like Glocks. And I'm not a 1911 fanboy and can admit Glocks are a go-to gun far more than a 1911 and its 8 rounds are. But, oh yes, "plenty of" double-stack versions available. How light are those?

As for Glocks being "more practical", this is code-speak for "safer for careless and less-adept handlers", IOW more idiot resistant. A 1911 requires a different mindset and if you are going to be an unmindful sort, then by all means stay away from a 1911 because they demand a level of responsibility in action and thought that the typical Glock owner may be unwilling to assume.

Oh look, more 1911 snobbery.

You keep making excuses for the overrated 1911. I think a 1911 is safer for careless people than a Glock is. But that doesn't really have much if anything to do with how practical a gun is overall. Glocks are simple and efficient and they reliably go bang with all kinds of ammo and they are easy to take apart and hold more than 8 rounds etc etc etc.

The way you write with your disdain for "typical Glock owners" is code-speak for you being a snobby 1911 fanboy.

 

[AFPVet]

A word of warning about newer Glocks! Many 4th-Generation and later 3rd Generation Glocks suffer from erratic ejection that will often cause empty cases to be ejected at your head -- an obvious annoyance that could be a liability in a self-defense situation. This has become a fairly well-known problem. One of my own Glocks (a later Gen 3 G17) suffers from it. Glock does not appear to know how to solve the problem; many people have sent their guns back to Glock only to have them returned with a note saying they've been upgraded and tested, yet with the problem remaining nonetheless. Here's a thread on the issue:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=105974

Fortunately, a custom manufacturer called Apex Tactical stepped up to the plate and is now making an extractor specifically to solve this problem. The first production batch actually goes on sale today (9/25), with more to follow in about a month:

http://www.apextactical.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/G-FRE-Release.jpg
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=87993&page=6

I'm going to get one myself; hopefully it will do the trick. If so, then I'll be able to recommend Glocks again. For the time being, I'd avoid them.

If you decide not to get a Glock but still want a handgun, I'd get either an HK or a Walther. The Walther PPQ has been getting rave reviews, and HK has a stellar reputation as well.

I have a 3rd Gen Law Enforcement Model M20 and haven't had this happen. All of my brass (full powered 10mm) eject straight out just like they're supposed to. It might be with certain models. I love the Glock 20 and put it on par with my Sig Sauer P220 in terms of quality, accuracy, and ease of use. The only drawback that I have is that the M20 is a BIG gun; however, I can still conceal it under a large shirt.

 

[oyarde]

John Browning knew what he was doing. Along with the Mauser action, still in service as designed over 100 years later because a better solution is yet to prove itself.

Browning was the man .

 

[fisharmor]

In fact, I don't like Glocks.

True haters of GLOCKs fall into one of two categories: either they have no experience with them, or they have so much that they're nitpicking details.

I fall squarely in that last category.

I don't think Wes and I are badmouthing 1911s. But this is worth noticing: people who hate GLOCKs who have bothered to find out about them firsthand probably own one.

I don't know a lot of 1911 haters who own a 1911.

 

[Pericles]

I don't think Wes and I are badmouthing 1911s. But this is worth noticing: people who hate GLOCKs who have bothered to find out about them firsthand probably own one.

I don't know a lot of 1911 haters who own a 1911.

This is true. I don't like the Series 80 tinkering with the safety, so I'm very old school on the 1911s. Would buy a Rock Island before a Kimber, which would freak out 1911 snobs. I want what works best for me. If you can't hit anything with a 1911, and there are those that will never be good with one, then you need to get what you can shoot with accuracy.

 

[Shane Harris]

I want the glock 19 too. I don't own any guns currently but that is right at the top of my list along with a ruger .357 blackhawk and an m1 garand

 

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

1911s are so overrated. Big, heavy, harder disassembly than many other guns, unreliable (on average compared to various other guns), and you get a whole 8 rounds for your efforts.

I don't know about the other stuff, but 15 > 8. The G19 also accepts 33 round mags if that should be needed for some reason. The big mags don't conceal as well. lol

I'm to the point where I'm not comfortable with anything less than 15 rounds. I used to occasionally throw an airweight in my front pocket (5 rounds 38 special +p), but it's been locked in a malfunctioning gunvault safe for months. I haven't missed it.

 

[QuickZ06]

Beretta > Glock

But it really comes down to what you like best as it will be your life on the line possibly.

 

[osan]

Gun forums are filled with people who will say how their 1911 doesn't like this or that ammo or doesn't like hollow points at all, while their Glock or similar guns eat anything. If by "reliability" you mean a Glock will have a catastrophic failure before a 1911 does, I could give it that one, but we're still talking 10s of thousands of rounds before that would happen.

That is not what I meant. I clearly wrote about general reliability and the 1911 readily matches the Glock. There was a time, in fact, when Glocks were very finicky eaters. That may have been since corrected. As a general rule this has not been the case with 1911s.

Nice to know "world-class" 1911s you've shot have been fantastic. Most people can't afford "world-class" 1911s. Even a Kimber costs more than a lowly Glock, and the newer ones of those are trash.

I cannot quite fathom the reason for your apparent bile here. Even inexpensive 1911s tend to be good shooters. Rock Island's are not terrible costly and they shoot well enough for self defense purposes. I have a Springfield .45 - inexpensive, well build, and very accurate and reliable out of the box.

Let's throw out the obvious comparison. A 1911 is like an old Ferrari; a Glock is like a new Toyota. The Ferrari can impress if gussied up and maintenance is kept up and you tweak this or that and keep it out of the snow, while if you want something that just plain works without messing with it and starts every time, you drive the Toyota.

I am sorry but it appears to me that you really have no credible experience with 1911s. I do and so do many of my friends and acquaintances, all of whom are IPSC competitors.

Just because disassembly is no worry "for you" doesn't mean it's not worse for disassembly than a Glock is.

But the relative ease of field stripping is not an issue. Is a 1911 difficult to field strip? No, it is not. It is just different. This issue is a non-issue.

Anyone who says 1911s are light is clearly the one who needs an edumacation about guns.

Depends on the 1911 and the person wielding it.

I like 1911s far more than I like Glocks. In fact, I don't like Glocks. And I'm not a 1911 fanboy and can admit Glocks are a go-to gun far more than a 1911 and its 8 rounds are. But, oh yes, "plenty of" double-stack versions available. How light are those?

The Glock 30 weighs 34 ounces loaded with 10 round mag.

A Paraordnance P12 weighs 36 with 12 rounds and is a physically larger pistol with a metal frame.

I will not address the irrelevant remainder of your emotionally-charged and somewhat incoherent rant. Believe what suits you. I would not have it any other way.