Smart Meter Opt-Out is a breakeven proposition

[Snowball]

1) Power co says new meters coming
2) wireless then IF signal not strong enough landline then IF pulse box every 15 minutes sends your data
3) digitally-calibrated meter is super-efficient.
4) "efficient" = good for them, bad for you (highest possible accuracy of every use instance). For example, you turn on a light for 5 seconds. It's going to pick up and log every single use of all kinds.
5) your old mechanical meter has the gears and wheels and little pins etc. that become SLOWER over time. Therefore it is "inefficiently" recording your usage.
This means your old meter is logging your usage LOWER than your actual use. By how much can vary, but the difference is real.

Result: Opt-Out, pay monthly line item charge ($15-20) at a fixed rate but continue with your old, ineffficient meter and no conectivity worries
or, be a sheep, let them install the smart meter. They can cut power anytime remotely. Now, you're going to see your usage INCREASE by a dollar amount (including increased fees for transmission, etc which are based on your use) that is SIMILAR to the Opt-Out charge anyway.

So this is a basically breakeven but get screwed either way choice. Down the road, they plan to make you pay more during peak times, by making it sound like you can save money by doing your laundry at 2 am instead of 5 pm. Of course only a tiny fraction of the public will bother to monitor this and change their lifetime of habits. So, they will pay more because a peak time surcharge will be introduced.

It makes sense. I never thought about the old meters recording "slightly" less power use, but I read a post by a guy who worked at a smart meter factory as a technician and evidently there is a notable difference in their ability to pick up every use compared to mechanical meters. Even the newly calibrated meters, never mind that old one which has old parts, it is saving you money because it's inefficient, compared to the digital meters.

The new meters cost them like $500-$600 bucks. You didn't think they wouldn't "pay for themselves" within a couple years, did you?

 

[CaptUSA]

1) Power co says new meters coming...

First, there are a couple of long threads on this topic dating back 10 years or more. I was an expert and worked in this space for years in one capacity or another. I shared real-time updates and insights. If you're interested, I suggest going back and finding those threads.

1) It's their equipment, they can update it if they want. (you're free to cut the cord)
2) Most meters record the data in 15 min intervals, but the meter is usually only interrogated a few times/day. They can use RF, cell, landlines, PLC... All depends on the particular situation.
3) Yes, the digital meters are more accurate, but that doesn't mean all digital meters are "smart" (meaning 2-way comms). Even if you opt out, the analog meters are going to be retired. In fact, you'll probably get the same meter with the comms disabled.
4) Yes, the newer meters are more accurate. That means you pay for what you use as opposed to those inefficiency costs being paid for by the entire rate base.
5) Yeah, same thing. Over time, the mechanical meters could slow down marginally which means usage could go undetected. In effect, that usage is paid for by everyone else. More accurate metering means less paying for usage that you did NOT consume.

As for Time-of-Use rates, you don't require a smart meter to do that. Nor would you need to monitor and adjust your behaviors if you have appliances that can read those signals and adjust on their own based on your preferences or schedule.

We heard about health concerns (overblown), privacy concerns (very real), but you seemed to be concerned that the meter will accurately track your usage so you can't get "free" electricity anymore??

 

[Snowball]

First, there are a couple of long threads on this topic dating back 10 years or more. I was an expert and worked in this space for years in one capacity or another. I shared real-time updates and insights. If you're interested, I suggest going back and finding those threads.

1) It's their equipment, they can update it if they want. (you're free to cut the cord)
2) Most meters record the data in 15 min intervals, but the meter is usually only interrogated a few times/day. They can use RF, cell, landlines, PLC... All depends on the particular situation.
3) Yes, the digital meters are more accurate, but that doesn't mean all digital meters are "smart" (meaning 2-way comms). Even if you opt out, the analog meters are going to be retired. In fact, you'll probably get the same meter with the comms disabled.
4) Yes, the newer meters are more accurate. That means you pay for what you use as opposed to those inefficiency costs being paid for by the entire rate base.
5) Yeah, same thing. Over time, the mechanical meters could slow down marginally which means usage could go undetected. In effect, that usage is paid for by everyone else. More accurate metering means less paying for usage that you did NOT consume.

As for Time-of-Use rates, you don't require a smart meter to do that. Nor would you need to monitor and adjust your behaviors if you have appliances that can read those signals and adjust on their own based on your preferences or schedule.

We heard about health concerns (overblown), privacy concerns (very real), but you seemed to be concerned that the meter will accurately track your usage so you can't get "free" electricity anymore??

well, I was a somewhat believer in the smart meters potential roles in "forest fires" and other disasters I've seen where houses look totally incinerated and this could have been because of the smart meters. Sure you've heard about that concern. I don't care if they have my usage data, and I have no plans to ever use "smart" anything in my home, and I'm not equipped for it, either, still analog, even thermostats and furnace. I am not enthused by the wireless radioactivity on my property. So I would prefer landline signals but I've read that's only an option if the wireless signal is 2 bars or less, and with my luck it will probably be 3 bars. I think the most daunting concern would be if someone can explode the house or burn up the meter (and the house) by sending it a mmw signal. It doesn't have to be a signal the device is set to receive, and of course it would not be part of the official specs. I'm not surprised to hear you say the day will come when I have to get a digital meter anyway. They are not calling them "smart meters", but "advanced". Nowhere in anything they sent in mail or on website is the term "smart meter" and I suspect that's because they know people are sus about that terminology. >> https://rienergy.com/site/more/frequent-questions/advanced-meters

 

[CaptUSA]

well, I was a somewhat believer in the smart meters potential roles in "forest fires" and other disasters I've seen where houses look totally incinerated and this could have been because of the smart meters. Sure you've heard about that concern. I don't care if they have my usage data, and I have no plans to ever use "smart" anything in my home, and I'm not equipped for it, either, still analog, even thermostats and furnace. I am not enthused by the wireless radioactivity on my property. So I would prefer landline signals but I've read that's only an option if the wireless signal is 2 bars or less, and with my luck it will probably be 3 bars. I think the most daunting concern would be if someone can explode the house or burn up the meter (and the house) by sending it a mmw signal. It doesn't have to be a signal the device is set to receive, and of course it would not be part of the official specs. I'm not surprised to hear you say the day will come when I have to get a digital meter anyway. They are not calling them "smart meters", but "advanced". Nowhere in anything they sent in mail or on website is the term "smart meter" and I suspect that's because they know people are sus about that terminology. >> https://rienergy.com/site/more/frequent-questions/advanced-meters

The meters themselves are pretty safe. It's the service entrances that are the issue with fires. Some of those services have been out there for decades and have never been opened. The bakelite could be cracked, the entrance wires could be under tension, a whole host of issues. If the installer doesn't recognize an issue and closes it back up, it could cause a fire. And when that happens, people are likely to blame the meter, but it's almost never the meter.

As for the wireless activity, it's like the equivalent of a garage door opener (if it's an RF signal) a few times per day. If it's a cell connection, it's like texts. There are some spa locations that advertise that they're "signal-free", but otherwise you'll get a larger dose from other things you have going on.

As for sending a signal to the meter to blow up, I don't think I've ever heard that concern. Probably because that's not how they work. You can't send a signal to it that would do anything besides open/close the disconnect switch or share some data. You can't make an overload of electricity shoot through the thing. In fact, they have breakers in them that prevent overloads. (Now, some utilities will close in the disconnect switch without manual intervention and if you have a pizza box on your electric stove that you left on, that could cause an obvious issue)

And yeah, "Advanced Metering Infrastructure" is the broad term for the whole system, whereas the "smart meter" is the endpoint component. You'll still hear that term as well as Advanced Metering.

Most of the hubbub has died down, but 10-15 years ago, there was a bunch of backlash.

Like I said before... The privacy concerns are VERY real. But most of the other stuff is just a misunderstanding of how the things work.

 

[Snowball]

The meters themselves are pretty safe. It's the service entrances that are the issue with fires. Some of those services have been out there for decades and have never been opened. The bakelite could be cracked, the entrance wires could be under tension, a whole host of issues. If the installer doesn't recognize an issue and closes it back up, it could cause a fire. And when that happens, people are likely to blame the meter, but it's almost never the meter.

As for the wireless activity, it's like the equivalent of a garage door opener (if it's an RF signal) a few times per day. If it's a cell connection, it's like texts. There are some spa locations that advertise that they're "signal-free", but otherwise you'll get a larger dose from other things you have going on.

As for sending a signal to the meter to blow up, I don't think I've ever heard that concern. Probably because that's not how they work. You can't send a signal to it that would do anything besides open/close the disconnect switch or share some data. You can't make an overload of electricity shoot through the thing. In fact, they have breakers in them that prevent overloads. (Now, some utilities will close in the disconnect switch without manual intervention and if you have a pizza box on your electric stove that you left on, that could cause an obvious issue)

And yeah, "Advanced Metering Infrastructure" is the broad term for the whole system, whereas the "smart meter" is the endpoint component. You'll still hear that term as well as Advanced Metering.

Most of the hubbub has died down, but 10-15 years ago, there was a bunch of backlash.

Like I said before... The privacy concerns are VERY real. But most of the other stuff is just a misunderstanding of how the things work.

But they can be fried with millimeter waves. And if there's anything in there that ignites which is highly likely...
It is one good thing that they don't have batteries like the cells of Hezbollah. A signal on their reception spectrum that is ultra-high powered can make them heat up and boom. no?

 

[Suzu]

One of the worst features of the AMI meter is the switch-mode power supply inside the meter. It has to be there in order to run the electronic LED display which uses DC. But it disrupts the incoming 60Hz sine wave and creates electromagnetic interference (EMI) throughout the building. Properly educated electricians know that you never put a SMPS at the head end of a wiring grid, because not only can this damage the wiring and appliances, it's also very dangerous for the building occupants' health.

For more info, please read https://www.nodirtyelectricity.com/dirty-electricity/