SIX straight polls show Rand Paul in 5th place or worse

jjdoyle said:
You mean the fake conservative primary voters right? Or, his dad's base, the real ones? The waters are really muddied with WHICH group of voters he is trying to win over...
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The non-Romney/Jeb voters. He needs to build on top of his father's base. My point isn't to debate their credentials as conservatives, but those are the voters he should be most after right now.

Rand is seen by many as a flip flopper and panderer. And in some ways he is and really every politician is. But he is seen by the conservative base as a lesser option, if not a RINO. He is clearly behind Cruz and Carson in their view. That isn't going to cut it, he needs to be right with them seriously competing for their vote.

Even though I am assured by a certain member that Rand doesn't need any advice (especially from the likes of me and other grassroots activists) and that is people have it completely under control, there is a serious messaging problem coming from Rand's team. They definitely have flashes of utter brilliance, and yet in other areas they show complete ineptitude.

Take Cuba for example. Rand allowed himself to be portrayed as a friend of Obama AND Castro. Rubio was able to regain his conservative luster just because he was seen as opposing Obama and Castro. What almost no one knows is that Rand stated on a small radio show that he would be in favor of lifting in the embargo in exchange for free elections. If Rand had presented that view to the public, and made CLEAR distinctions between opening relations and lifting the embargo, then he would have been portrayed far better by conservatives.

I don't expect Rand's team to be able to predict how people react. But they have shown they cannot respond to said reactions.

And don't even get me started on the horrible immigration messaging...
 
TaftFan said:
The non-Romney/Jeb voters. He needs to build on top of his father's base. My point isn't to debate their credentials as conservatives, but those are the voters he should be most after right now.

Rand is seen by many as a flip flopper and panderer. And in some ways he is and really every politician is. But he is seen by the conservative base as a lesser option, if not a RINO. He is clearly behind Cruz and Carson in their view. That isn't going to cut it, he needs to be right with them seriously competing for their vote.

Even though I am assured by a certain member that Rand doesn't need any advice (especially from the likes of me and other grassroots activists) and that is people have it completely under control, there is a serious messaging problem coming from Rand's team. They definitely have flashes of utter brilliance, and yet in other areas they show complete ineptitude.

Take Cuba for example. Rand allowed himself to be portrayed as a friend of Obama AND Castro. Rubio was able to regain his conservative luster just because he was seen as opposing Obama and Castro. What almost no one knows is that Rand stated on a small radio show that he would be in favor of lifting in the embargo in exchange for free elections. If Rand had presented that view to the public, and made CLEAR distinctions between opening relations and lifting the embargo, then he would have been portrayed far better by conservatives.

I don't expect Rand's team to be able to predict how people react. But they have shown they cannot respond to said reactions.

And don't even get me started on the horrible immigration messaging...
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You clearly are clueless on this messaging thing. Rand doesn't have a messaging problem. What have YOU accomplished? What candidates have YOU gotten elected? Where do YOU teach classes? The "certain member" that projects things to you like, "Rand doesn't need any advice" is 100% correct, as ALWAYS. #DefeatistGonnaDefeat
 
Out of blind hope for this ridiculous "plan", I will vote for Rand on any ballot he is on (except VP). I just have to make sure I don't read or hear any of the things he says until then.
 
You know there is a simple explanation for all of this. America is no longer "war weary." As a nation we are doubling down on stupid. It might take the complete economic collapse of our way of life coupled with the truth finally sinking in that the GWOT is causing terrorism to spread for us to decide we need another playbook. If that's the case, then maybe it's not a bad thing if Rand doesn't win this time. He most certainly should run. I hope he wins. But boobus Americanus might not yet be ready for the things he will need to do to turn this sinking ship around.
 
GunnyFreedom said:
It's because Rand has been running for the General and trying to satisfy us for the last 4 months or so. If I were advising Rand Paul, I would advise him to ignore us and the General and focus on the bulk of Primary voters until the Primary is over. But then half the people on these forums would call him hitler redux or something equally ridiculous.
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+1

Hitler redux.. so true
 
Anti Federalist said:
Here we go again, whistling past the graveyard.

The hidebound GOP base does not want freedom.

They don't want it anymore than the general public does.

The only way Rand could pull off a primary win is to lie his ass off.
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That may not be a bad idea.... Take one for the team kinda thing.
Be the one to roll around with pigs, so we don't have to.
I think that could be the plan.
It has been discussed as an option by some in the state LP here. You know the demagogues are there, use them, and spin them. What we usually do is speak the truth and let them spin us.
 
CaptUSA said:
Yep. Exactly. He has to walk a tightrope and too many of us will knock him off if he leans too far one way or another.
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Screw the tightrope. Instead of changing his mind. Come up with a policy and stick with it. He'll never get caught in a lie if he just walks his walk and talks his talk. I don't need him to be 100% Ron Paul. I want him to be 100% Rand Paul. No BS just be who you are.
 
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