SHTF Long Gun for Petite Girl?

[jbauer]

How about an m1 abrams? Although that might be banned in your state

The 10/22 is a pretty sweet gun by the way. In a shtf world you're not going to be hunting large game other than humans. It would be better to have a ton of small ammo then a limited supply of larger ammo. You can get a 10/22 for $350ish or so on gunbroker.com You can find .22 ammo some places. If you buy something that fires a .223 you'll spend 5x the 10/22 on the gun itself and 10x that on ammo. If the boys in blue or black come for you its over anyway. You just need to keep the average american down. A .22 will do that.

 

[SpreadOfLiberty]

http://henryrepeating.com/rifle-survival-ar7.cfm

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone, they're greatly appreciated. I particularly like the breakdown AR-7 survival rifle, we might give that some serious consideration. Though I'm still intrigued by the SU-16 because of it's interchangeability with my own rifle.

OK, I messed up. I was thinking of the M6 Scout which was (is?) issued to air crews. Comes in .22 LR/Hornet and 410 shotgun and apparently also takes .45. Comes in stainless steel or regular. You can also fire it when wearing mittens.

Manuals for this and the AR7 can be found online for free. as to the AR7, it's apparently pretty easy to convert to full auto. Kurt Saxon had instructions/plans for tricking one out in one of his books. Silencer, collapsible stock, full auto, etc. You of course wouldn't want to do this unless you had the appropriate BATF tax stamps

an advantage of having a small diameter shot gun, besides hunting birds, is that you can get areal flares in shot shells. Fired horizontally, that can be a really good contact breaker... White ones are generally the hottest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M6_Scout

-t

 

[presence]

Ruger 10/22, stainless barrel
Walmart $250

She's reliably armed on the cheap, and could head shot a deer from a stand if need be.

S&W M&P 15/22
$500 local FFL gun shop

She's reliably armed, on the cheap, and is holding a lightweight AR clone while she fires.

 

[mad cow]

Another vote for .22lr.You would be eating more bird,rabbit and squirrel in a SHTF situation than bigger game and there could be times that you do not want to announce your presence and/or the fact that you are armed.You are already covered for defense and larger game.

Here is one that you could scope and still come in at 5 lbs. +/- an ounce or two.It also takes the same mag. as a Buckmark pistol should you get one of them.

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?fid=004B&cid=021&tid=026

 

[Tod]

If you are that serious about it, I would have her start hitting the gym and lifting for strength/power. Lift short sets with heavy weights.

this ^

If she thinks an AR is heavy, how will she carry a pack or handle other physically demanding tasks?

 

[Confederate]

This thread is in desperate need of pics.

No, it really wasn't.

 

[osan]

She already has her handgun and I already have my long-gun and know what I want for my handgun (once the funds are available), so what I'm angling for is to determine what would be the most appropriate SHTF long-gun for my girlfriend. She's a 5'3" Asian girl that weighs barely 100-105 lbs. This make size and weight of a long-gun for such a purpose pretty restricted. She took my AR-15 out for the first time at the range a few weeks ago and complained about the weight after only a short period. It only weighs about 7.5 lbs or so.

Thoughts? Any advice is appreciated.

Perhaps she should just get used to the AR. That would be my first recommendation, given your parameters. But if she is dead set against it, perhaps a Mini-14? Even the cheap ARs are going around $2500 at the moment. The Mini might be the ticket.

 

[Icymudpuppy]

Does anyone have any experience with Kel-Tec SU-16's? I'm thinking this might be a decent weapon for my criteria. It's lighter than most AR-15 builds are going to be, yet still would be compatible with my 5.56 ammo and STANAG mags making anything we carry with us interchangeable.

I have one. I love it. Much easier to clean than an AR-15 base. It is fully compatible with military issue magazines. Light weight. Has no problem at long range or short range. You'll want a scope or dot sight. Its factory open sights suck.

 

[Darguth]

this ^

If she thinks an AR is heavy, how will she carry a pack or handle other physically demanding tasks?

It's a fair point, though she has carried a full hiking backpack during our Europe trip. So I'm not that worried about carrying a pack/endurance in that regard, it's mostly arm strength. But it's a fair point, we could both be in better shape

Spoke with my brother just tonight and apparently he has a Ruger 10/22 I was unaware of, so I'll likely get that for her to shoot and try out at least. It will give her a point of reference while we compare options at least.

Although my initial inclination was towards compatible ammo/mags with either a featherweight AR build or an SU-16, I'm definitely seeing the advantage of carrying multiple rounds for game hunting purposes. Particularly with the low cost and weight of .22LR compared to the 5.56.

 

[bolil]

.22lr-high velocity and penetration low weight per round, low recoil.

 

[acptulsa]

.22lr-high velocity and penetration low weight per round, low recoil.

Considerable variety, light to carry a box of reloads, anyone and his dog who reloads can reload them, won't make the lady deaf, won't bruise her shoulder, as accurate as anything anywhere (if you don't believe me ask the Olympic shooting team), you can come up with a rifle, a target pistol and a concealed carry which all use them (mega useful in a tshtf scenario), the ammo is available everywhere but the convenience store, and cheap cheap cheap.

One doesn't do oneself a favor by turning one's elite nose up at this stuff. Yeah, it's common--for a damned good reason. Stopping power? It's accurate enough to put right where you want it. And it has penetration enough to get the perp through the door, so you don't even have to look at the bastard. It works.

 

[youngbuck]

Perhaps a long term goal could be to improve physical strength/fitness so that an AR-15 (or similar weighted assault rifle) could be easily employed.

 

[PursuePeace]

 

[Confederate]

I love that takedown model!

 

[osan]

Although my initial inclination was towards compatible ammo/mags with either a featherweight AR build or an SU-16, I'm definitely seeing the advantage of carrying multiple rounds for game hunting purposes. Particularly with the low cost and weight of .22LR compared to the 5.56.

Given your original objective as stated:

secondary fallback weapon for self-defense, and the other being a general purpose long-gun for hunting and longer-range combat

A .22lr would not cut the mustard for this "longer range" meaning 300 yards, +/-. 5.56 would, which is why the AR or Mini-14 were suggested. If you want a survival gun fit for keeping individuals at bay and hunting lighter fare, Spread Of Liberty suggested a very sound choice, above. The AR7 is light and compact.

If you want a long range weapon, I stand by 308 as first choice and 30-06 as close second, the order indicating not the relative performances of the chamberings per se, but the overall utility when availability of ammunition is taken into account. 30-06 is harder hitting than 308 at range, but the latter is one of the absolute gold standards of consistent accuracy and ammo is very widely available because it is a standard military cartridge. Therefore, if the world as we know it ever became the world as we knew it, one would in principle be able to pilfer old military stores for a very long time, whereas 30-06 could become scarce rapidly in the event of a serious collapse of civilization. Of course, in that event one would perhaps be left wanting for but one bullet.

If I had to choose based solely on survival requirements without consideration to predatory humans, .22 would be my choice for the reasons already stated by others. You could carry a brick of ammo with you and not break a sweat. Two-hundred rounds would be a barely noticeable load.

If it is the two of you, I'd have a .22 and a .308/30-06 as my long gun combination.

You specified rifles, so I will not go into the utility of the shotgun.

 

[osan]

Does anyone have any experience with Kel-Tec SU-16's? I'm thinking this might be a decent weapon for my criteria. It's lighter than most AR-15 builds are going to be, yet still would be compatible with my 5.56 ammo and STANAG mags making anything we carry with us interchangeable.

The problem today with the Kel-Tec is both cost and availability. Just as with the ARs, their prices have gone through the roof. For the $2K+ you could do better. Also, try finding one. The manufacturers are sold to the bare walls right now and relief is not likely to be realized for a while... months at the least, possibly years. Folks are become very apprehensive. WV has some of the most polite people on the planet, yet last week at Dicks in South Ridge (S. of downtown Charleston) a fight almost broke out over the remnants of 22. lr ammo! That is how on-edge people are in these United States.

See http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?403227-Industry-sitrep&p=4851092#post4851092 for the skinny on current manufacturing figures in the USA.

 

[Darguth]

If you want a survival gun fit for keeping individuals at bay and hunting lighter fare, Spread Of Liberty suggested a very sound choice, above. The AR7 is light and compact.

Does anyone have personal experience using the AR-7? The few reviews I was able to comb through yesterday evening were not particularly favorable. They cited poor sights, feeding issues with the factory mags, and general inaccuracy.

 

[Darguth]

The problem today with the Kel-Tec is both cost and availability. Just as with the ARs, their prices have gone through the roof. For the $2K+ you could do better. Also, try finding one.

Yeah, the availability is a larger issue to me than the cost. If I thought the Kel-Tec was the best tool to protect her, it'd be funded. However, I'm definitely coming around to the merits of having a .22LR rifle with us so I think my options are shifting more towards the AR-7, a 10/22 Takedown, or possibly a MP-15/22. The last one would have some interchangeable parts/accessories with my own rifle and she'd also be training with something the functions almost exactly like mine, so she'd be better at using mine in a pinch (and me hers).

 

[foxtrotterz]

Shameless bump for Appleseed. If you both own rifles and expect to be able to use them, I cannot recommend highly enough something as cheap and thorough as an Appleseed clinic one weekend. I can guarantee you, most Americans are not prepared to take shots at 400 yards and actually hit their target. Not saying you will pick up on all the info in one weekend, but you will most certainly walk away with the fundamentals and the knowledge of how to make the shot and how to practice correctly. Bad form is hard to break, so if either of you are still novices(or "experts), I highly recommend you make it to a shoot asap. www.appleseedinfo.org