Should we establish a C2C mini-trade network?

[Athan]

I have been wondering whether a free trade network between members is necessary to insulate liberty minded Ron Paul supporters. I for one, am already preparing myself with things in case of seriously bad times.

Frankly, we don't know the exact time when things may go awry, how specifically, or the general scope. But I want to discuss whether the need and participation is there of whether we should have such a network ready. We are a demographic market that has been ignored by every business out there anyway.

The first thing I want to ask is whether we even need to develop such a network. (I don't know if Mexico is the way we are headed, Wiemar Republic, or Zimbabwe is our future. America can produce food in large quantities for instance so we are not completely shot to hell when it comes to exports and trade.)

Will it be a rough period, a shift to third world country, or are talking about serious historical events?

Will such a network be an effective measure to protect the general interest of informed Americans?

Will it protect us or make us targets?

Will we need general trading rules?

What should we do now till then?

 

[The Grinning Maniac]

I've been thinking about this lately. I think it's a good idea. But the demon is in the details. I don't know how we'd set it up.

 

[TheEvilDetector]

Here is an idea:

People buy and sell goods online using gold/silver ounces.

Members would register their interest in certain types of goods and whenever someone wanted to sell that good, the member would be notified.

Also, members wishing to sell would be able to find out the level of interest (numbers of interested buyers) in a particular good (without revealing identities of those people).

The system would provide this free of charge (supported by a modest ad bar somewhere).

Everything would be priced in weights of pure gold/silver. Members could only pay using gold/silver.

As far as transfer of gold/silver is concerned, you could have points in different states where this gold/silver could be deposited and picked up.

Here is an example:

Bob is selling a lawn mower, Bill buys it for 1/4 ounce gold.

Bill goes to local point and puts in 1/4 ounce gold.

Bill mails Certificate of Deposit over to Bob.

Bob gets the CoD and goes to pick up the Gold at his local point.

Bob then sends the lawn mower over to Bill.

(Gold is balanced between these points internally).

Alternatively, gold could be sent by mail.

What do you think about such a system?

(You would need honest people to run gold transfer points or just use mail instead).

 

[Fight-n-Mad]

Here is an idea:

People buy and sell goods online using gold/silver ounces.

Members would register their interest in certain types of goods and whenever someone wanted to sell that good, the member would be notified.

Also, members wishing to sell would be able to find out the level of interest (numbers of interested buyers) in a particular good (without revealing identities of those people).

The system would provide this free of charge (supported by a modest ad bar somewhere).

Everything would be priced in weights of pure gold/silver. Members could only pay using gold/silver.

As far as transfer of gold/silver is concerned, you could have points in different states where this gold/silver could be deposited and picked up.

Here is an example:

Bob is selling a lawn mower, Bill buys it for 1/4 ounce gold.

Bill goes to local point and puts in 1/4 ounce gold.

Bill mails Certificate of Deposit over to Bob.

Bob gets the CoD and goes to pick up the Gold at his local point.

Bob then sends the lawn mower over to Bill.

(Gold is balanced between these points internally).

Alternatively, gold could be sent by mail.

What do you think about such a system?

(You would need honest people to run gold transfer points or just use mail instead).

I've actually thought quite a bit about something like this, and I think it would be feasible. The problem is, you ultimately wind up with an electronic, gold/silver-backed currency -- kind of like GoldMoney, but actually redeemable for physical gold. The thing about that is, it is centralized. So, in a SHTF scenario, it could easily be shut down by TPTB.

So, I got to thinking, what if you had a system that was totally de-centralized, anonymous, and encrypted? Turns out, there has been a lot of work done on that type of software for online file sharing. One of them that looked interesting to me in my research was GNUnet (http://gnunet.org/). It would definitely take some development effort to adapt something like that for this particular use. But, imagine the potential for such a thing, and not just in an economic collapse. If the various kinks could be worked out -- and I think they could -- it would be a real threat to the fiat empire, if it actually took off.

The biggest obstacles I can see are:

a) Distributing and holding the PM's in a way that was anonymous and de-centralized, without having to rely on a great deal of trust in those holding the metal.

b) Exchange of physical goods and PMs (via mail or in person) could never be completely anonymous.

Anyway, this goes pretty far beyond the scope of the OP, but I guess you could say it's kind of an agoristic thought experiment. Something like that could be incredibly powerful if it could be made to work.

There has been some work done on anonymous electronic currency, but I haven't seen anything that was actually backed by, and redeemable for PMs. The cypherpunks came up in some of my searching, but I honestly never dug into it too deeply.

 

[pappy]

So, I got to thinking, what if you had a system that was totally de-centralized, anonymous, and encrypted? Turns out, there has been a lot of work done on that type of software for online file sharing. One of them that looked interesting to me in my research was GNUnet (http://gnunet.org/). It would definitely take some development effort to adapt something like that for this particular use. But, imagine the potential for such a thing, and not just in an economic collapse. If the various kinks could be worked out -- and I think they could -- it would be a real threat to the fiat empire, if it actually took off.

Look at https://loom.cc///

and here:http://www.loomster.net/doku.php

kind of an anonymous trading database with varying base "currencies"

have to really search for info on this but it is open source and fairly anonymous.

pappy

 

[Cali4RonPaul]

A barter trade system would be great. Believe it or not Craigslist is a place where you can barter on a local level.

 

[Fight-n-Mad]

Look at https://loom.cc///

and here:http://www.loomster.net/doku.php

kind of an anonymous trading database with varying base "currencies"

have to really search for info on this but it is open source and fairly anonymous.

pappy

That's interesting. And there are some other good ideas, following the links from that site. But it is web-based, so you have to trust the web server, since it is collecting info like IP addresses. Plus, a server can be shut down. And, as noted here:

These business transactions involved two important concerns shared between all parties:

1.Trust - each party had to trust that the party other would or will at some future point make good delivery.

2.Reputation - each party based the amount of trust in the other party on the other party's reputation.

These two points are of vital importance in this type of trading system.

http://www.escapevelocitypub.com/articles/monetize.html

If you accept credit cards, for example, in general you know that you will get paid, as long as the card clears. And if you make a purchase, you can normally at least get your money back if you don't get what you paid for. Basically, the trust is placed in the bank.

What I'd like to see is a means of making electronic transactions that is just as good as a credit/debit card, backed by gold/silver, anonymous, secure, and distributes the gold and the account info in such a way that it can't be stolen by the banks (or their thugs). Sounds far fetched, but I think it's possible. If I ever get the time, maybe this could be a project. Maybe putting the thought out here will stimulate somebody else's creativity.

Will it protect us or make us targets?

Depending on how it's done, and the circumstances, it could be the latter. But Craigslist does sound like a good idea. Bartering over long distances gets more complicated though. Googling "online barter" turns up some interesting sites, but I've never used one of them. Some of them will actually give you "trading credits" for your goods.

 

[Athan]

We can distribute a price guide.

 

[Dr.3D]

Seems like any form of trade that bypasses the Federal Reserve note and uses something else for the transaction would do the job. It's a matter of putting them out of the business of having us use their medium of exchange. The government likes to tax anything that causes the exchange of Federal Reserve notes.

 

[ArchPaul]

I've been pondering this also... craigslist is good to a point, some people over price
things because they paid a premium on something, and expect back what they paid.
I started http://superstarbets.com as a something between ebay and craigslist... Local auctions.. I'm still working on it.

I also created http://blackmarketdata.com as a new data exchange for goods and services not on store shelves You do NOT buy things from the site (yes I've had people email me for drugs! ) Its just data on street prices so people can see what is trading for how much. I havn't worked on it in a while, but I'm going to start up again. As the economy worsens, and taxes/inflation go up, the black market is going to explode!

Let me know what you think.

 

[Athan]

Can C4L help us with this type of network?

 

[cbc58]

I've been researching trading / buying networks for about six months including alternative forms of currency.... and am working on a prototype for a web enabled service. Could use some help if anyone wants to brainstorm or can program in PHP.

A simple c2c network is pretty easy to set up on a local basis...(craigslist is the default for this in most places) the trouble is when you expand out beyond the local area and try to connect things. This is especially true for purchasing products from suppliers including distrubution to keep costs competitive. Then there is the issue of participation to make it worth while for everyone involved.

Going off-grid and using alternative curriencies is a whole nother level of complexity.. but doable.

What we need to do is buy an island off of the US to store gold for backing a new currency.. that way the US can't confiscate it.