Should Trump Be Able To Send California Guard Troops To Oregon?

[jmdrake]

At 4:00 in Dr. Paul flatly repudiates the "invasion" narrative pushed by @Anti Federalist and now @CaptUSA and @Maximilian American (and maybe @TheTexan though it's hard to tell when he's being serious). The reason I joined the Ron Paul movement in the first place is because I was concerned about a police state being rolled out in order to fight a Global War On Terrorism. 9/11 shook me to my core and I wanted something done, but I instinctively knew the government was going too far. Better screening at the airport? Okay. Full body scans and invasive pat downs just because you ask "Why do I have to take my shoes off (that happened to my now ex-wife), not okay. Invading Afghanistan to get Osama Bin Laden? Made sense at the time. Invading Iraq for an ever shifting reason? That never made sense.


Now we've reached a point where the current president has, in the name of a war on.....something (migrant drug gangs?) has kicked in the doors of over 300 Americans, who have been here since at least the 1800s, in one single raid in order to get at, at most, 30 "tren de aragua" suspects. They were taken out in the middle of the night in their underwear, young and old, put in flex cuffs and put in unmarked vans. Yes most of them were released. But how the hell is that okay? This is much worse than anything done by president Bush to American citizens. Yes he did that to Iraqis. But, once upon a time, citizenship had its privileges. Obama did kill an American citizen without a trial (Anwar Al Awlaki), and I won't try to dress that up although I know Obama sycophants will look at the media reports and consider that a "trial of public opinion." And yes, Trump has order strikes on Venezuelan speedboats killing I'm not sure how many people without a trial or an actual act of war, but again citizenship has (or should have) its privileges.


But I get it. Trump's going to Trump. It's the movement itself I'm worried about. I watched a video where Alex Jones and Michael Flynn openly talked about how Trump might need to "declare martial law" because of some "Podesta plan" for some "race based civil war" and they talked about Trump going so far as seizing U.S. farm land to "protect it" from some "Chinese bio-weapon attack." This is the same Trump that anybody with a lick of sense knows was part of the last Chinese bio-weapon attack! Seriously, Whitney Webb exposed the fact Trump was in on the COVID scamdemic from at least 2019 when he got the "COVID economic recovery plan" from BlackRock. All of these videos proving everything I'm saying have been posted on this forum multiple times. But if people aren't going to believe Dr. Paul, when this is still "RonPaulForums" on the fact that we're not actually under an invasion and this is being used as a pretext to take away what's left of our civil liberties, then how are they going to believe Whitney Webb? We've gone from lampooning those who would trade essential liberties for security to becoming them all because our pet issue has now been pushed to the forefront. They didn't even need to do a false flag terror attack this time. Some of us are willing to just imagine the possibility of one. Oh, and Trump's claim that this is to fight fentanyl is absolute BS. Even Trump's DOJ indictments of Venezuelan officials mention cocaine but not fentanyl.


So what's it going to take? Will Trump need to go to a white neighborhood and kick in 300 doors before what's really going on becomes clear to people? Or will Trump avoid pissing of what's left of his base? Maybe the unconstitutional power grab will get used by the next president. Or maybe he'll just start seizing farmland and count on the Alex Jones' of the world to back him even when he's doing to white farmers what we once cheered Clive Bundy for standing up against? I used to like Alex Jones. I likely wouldn't be part of this movement without him. I genuinely like most people on this forum even though we get on each other's nerves. But there are lines that if we don't make sure the current administration knows it can't cross , this nation is finished.

 

[vita3]

no

 

[TheTexan]

If we go to war with Oregon I expect Trump would be able to call up national guard to invade it, yea certainly.

Probably isn't the best idea to send California guard though to do that.

Texas guard would do job properly

 

[PAF]

@jmdrake,

Everything that you wrote in the OP was spot on. I hope folks coming to this thread will take the time to actually read it.

I hope that folks will watch the entire episode to get a better understanding. It was clear that Ron Paul wasn't happy. We have been warning about this for years now with hard evidence, but for some reason people can't, or refuse, to put 2 and 2 together.

Here is the article that Daniel and Ron referenced by Mises' Ryan McMaken: [a must read]

Trump's National Guard Deployments Centralize Power and Undermine Federalism | Mises Institute

For those who are actually concerned about the further concentration of political power, the president’s habit of sending federal troops to American cities is a

mises.org

 

[TheTexan]

@jmdrake,

Everything that you wrote in the OP was spot on. I hope folks coming to this thread will take the time to actually read it.

I hope that folks will watch the entire episode to get a better understanding. It was clear that Ron Paul wasn't happy. We have been warning about this for years now with hard evidence, but for some reason people can't, or refuse, to put 2 and 2 together.

I don't necessarily disagree with any of it but mostly just ambivalent as this is the natural course this country has to take before secession happens.

Everything that is happening has to happen and couldn't happen any other way and at the end of it either things will be improved or we will be dead.

It is what it is

 

[PAF]

I don't necessarily disagree with any of it but mostly just ambivalent as this is the natural course this country has to take before secession happens.

Everything that is happening has to happen and couldn't happen any other way and at the end of it either things will be improved or we will be dead.

It is what it is

People don't know what they are fighting for, for or against, so just based on that it is a very bad move.

Ron Paul is right, we must reach the hearts and minds of the American people, even if it takes time.

 

[otherone]

I don't necessarily disagree with any of it but mostly just ambivalent as this is the natural course this country has to take before secession happens.

Everything that is happening has to happen and couldn't happen any other way and at the end of it either things will be improved or we will be dead.

It is what it is

 

[TheTexan]

People don't know what they are fighting for, for or against, so just based on that it is a very bad move.

I disagree, I think people do know what they are fighting for, individually. As a group it's an incoherent mass of course. But separation helps to bring order to that chaos.

Ron Paul is right, we must reach the hearts and minds of the American people.

This is the entirely wrong way of thinking. It is even perhaps a Globalist way of thinking.

We need to respect each other's differences instead of trying to get people to conform.

Respect each other enough to separate peacefully, is all that is needed for peace and liberty.

Beyond that, their hearts and minds need not be our concern.

 

[69360]

It's within his power to federalize the national guard using the insurrection act if he feels necessary. Should he actually do it? I don't know, probably not worth it. It made some temporary improvement in DC, but it's not a long term solution.

 

[PAF]

I disagree, I think people do know what they are fighting for, individually. As a group it's an incoherent mass of course. But separation helps to bring order to that chaos.

People are brainwashed. Do you see how we have declined over the past 100 years? If you think the grass will be greener after whatever it is happens, I've got bad news for you [see North Korea].

This is the entirely wrong way of thinking. It is even perhaps a Globalist way of thinking.

Globalist trade, or globalist governance? I'm for the former, not the latter.

We need to respect each other's differences instead of trying to get people to conform.

We can do that peacefully just like we do here in my parts. Even when I'm out and about others and I have no beef with each other.

It's the government that is pushing these war-mongering tactics in order to facilitate and line the pockets of the Silicon Valley Technocrats and Regional Governance which some of us have been warning about. Stupid people are falling right into their trap, and/or actually embracing it.

Respect each other enough to separate peacefully, is all that is needed for peace and liberty.

That won't actually exist until one reaches Heaven or Hell. Here on earth it is perpetual, so one does what he/she can as individuals to make the best of it.

Beyond that, their hearts and minds need not be our concern.

My family/small-cell community is my concern. It starts there.

 

[TheTexan]

People are brainwashed. Do you see how we have declined over the past 100 years?

I assume you believe in self-determination.

They make their own choices, and we gave them that choice at least three times, in 1988, 2008, and 2012.

They rejected that choice.

And now, instead of accepting that they don't want our brand of freedom, the only other option must be that they are "brainwashed"?

They probably think you're brainwashed.

How can you possibly expect them to respect your perspectives if you won't respect theirs?

If you think the grass will be greener after whatever it is happens, I've got bad news for you [see North Korea].

Broadly speaking, secession can only make things better. It might get worse for some individuals but all else being equal there will be greater liberty with two smaller governments than there would be with one big one.

Globalist trade, or globalist governance? I'm for the former, not the latter.

It's a globalist mindset.

"They don't think like me therefore they are wrong or must be brainwashed"

I'm sure Lincoln shared that same opinion.

We can do that peacefully just like we do here here in my parts. Even when I'm out and about others and I have no beef with most.

It's the government that is pushing these war-mongering tactics in order to facilitate and line the pockets of the Silicon Valley Technocrats and Regional Governance which some of us have been warning about.

And the origin of all this conflict and strife is the fact that we have not been allowed to separate. Even the concept of separation is beyond most people's minds. Imagine someone you find strongly irritating (I'm sure some candidates come quickly to mind) and then imagine that you are forced to live in the same house as them for 160 years. The only reason the Silicon Valley Technocrats can get away with this shit is because they have us locked in a box fuming at each other feeling helpless to do anything about it except to turn to the warmongers and technocrats for their "help".

That won't actually exist until one reaches Heaven or Hell. Here on earth it is perpetual, so one does what he/she can as individuals to make the best of it.

Probably right, but at least it still has a better chance of working than converting America's hearts and minds lol

 

[PAF]

I assume you believe in self-determination.

They make their own choices, and we gave them that choice at least three times, in 1988, 2008, and 2012.

They rejected that choice.

And now, instead of accepting that they don't want our brand of freedom, the only other option must be that they are "brainwashed"?

They probably think you're brainwashed.

How can you possibly expect them to respect your perspectives if you won't respect theirs?

Tides are turning now concerning people's outlook on War, Israel, etc. Things take time. Even homeschooling is starting to pick up a little.

Broadly speaking, secession can only make things better. It might get worse for some individuals but all else being equal there will be greater liberty with two smaller governments than there would be with one big one.

Hey, I'm all for secession. But do you actually think this Empire and the Technocrats are actually going to allow that to happen [see wars across the globe]? Even if it did happen, it seems to me that it would fit nicely with their Globalist "Regional" Governance plans.

It's a globalist mindset.

Globalist isn't a filthy word anymore than fentanyl is. It's how it's implemented is what matters. I am all in for Globalist freedom of movement and trade, just like I am all in for the doctor who prescribes fentanyl when it is required.

But when Empires want to rule, tax, monitor, etc. globally, that's where I have a problem.

The only reason the Silicon Valley Technocrats can get away with this shit is because they have us locked in a box fuming at each other feeling helpless to do anything about it except to turn to the warmongers and technocrats for their "help".

And that is exactly what the manufactured border crisis was all about. Trapping us in a box and rolling out the "solution". Ron Paul even warned about that. People have a right to self-determination, but some statists will try to prevent that, aiding and abetting said Technocrats, and you're one of them.

Probably right, but at least it still has a better chance of working than converting America's hearts and minds lol

Let me know if/when you secede how the government [state] deals with that [see Venezuela]. Like I told @Anti Federalist, it might be easier to find some deserted island and start fresh over there - well, until the USSA MIC catches up with you to make sure you file your taxes.

 

[TheTexan]

Tides are turning now concerning people's outlook on War, Israel, etc. Things take time. Even homeschooling is starting to pick up a little.

Israel maybe because they may have overplayed their hand but the general outlook on war, no I dont think that has changed, nor do I think it is likely to ever change, for at least as long as we believe ourselves to be the global hegemonic leader.

Hey, I'm all for secession. But do you actually think this Empire and the Technocrats are actually going to allow that to happen [see wars across the globe]?

You're assuming the Empire and Technocrats are eternal and omnipotent, which is simply not true. When secession does happen, it will be because the Empire and Technocrats have already lost control. They will certainly try to stop it but there's no reason to expect they are guaranteed to succeed in that endeavor.

Even if it did happen, it seems to me that it would fit nicely with their Globalist "Regional" Governance plans.

Yea sure ok .gif

Globalist isn't a filthy word anymore than fentanyl is. It's how it's implemented is what matters. I am all in for Globalist freedom of movement and trade, just like I am all in for the doctor who prescribes fentanyl when it is required.

But when Empires want to rule, tax, monitor, etc. globally, that's where I have a problem.

Well I guess that's where we differ. I vehemently oppose all forms of globalism, even your specific brand of "good" globalism.

The only globalism I support is that globally, there should be no globalism. That's my only one global rule. It's self contradicting but I'm ok with that.

And that is exactly what the manufactured border crisis was all about. Trapping us in a box and rolling out the "solution". Ron Paul even warned about that. People have a right to self-determination, but some statists will try to prevent that, aiding and abetting said Technocrats, and you're one of them.

How the fuck am I trying to prevent self determination? I 1000% support everyone's self determination.

It's you that's trying to prevent self determination, with your "good" globalism, and converting "brainwashed" people to your specific brand of freedom which they clearly don't want.

You only support the self determination of people who agree with you. I support the self determination of everybody.

 

[PAF]

Israel maybe because they may have overplayed their hand but the general outlook on war, no I dont think that has changed, nor do I think it is likely to ever change, for at least as long as we believe ourselves to be the global hegemonic leader.

You're assuming the Empire and Technocrats are eternal and omnipotent, which is simply not true. When secession does happen, it will be because the Empire and Technocrats have already lost control. They will certainly try to stop it but there's no reason to expect they are guaranteed to succeed in that endeavor.

Yea sure ok .gif

Well I guess that's where we differ. I vehemently oppose all forms of globalism, even your specific brand of "good" globalism.

The only globalism I support is that globally, there should be no globalism. That's my only one global rule. It's self contradicting but I'm ok with that.

How the fuck am I trying to prevent self determination? I 1000% support everyone's self determination.

It's you that's trying to prevent self determination, with your "good" globalism, and converting "brainwashed" people to your specific brand of freedom which they clearly don't want.

You only support the self determination of people who agree with you. I support the self determination of everybody.

Man, that's all messed up I have a flight to catch today so maybe I'll respond later ;-)

 

[TheCount]

It's within his power to federalize the national guard using the insurrection act if he feels necessary.

Is that what it says? It's based on the president's feelings?

 

[69360]

Is that what it says? It's based on the president's feelings?

The actual text of the act uses the wording "considers". So yes.

 

[TheCount]

The actual text of the act uses the wording "considers". So yes.

I'm not sure that Trump has ever considered anything in his life.

 

[69360]

I'm not sure that Trump has ever considered anything in his life.

That's debatable. The fact is Trump can do this. Should he and does it help? Maybe a little short term, but not worth the backlash.

 

[jmdrake]

That's debatable. The fact is Trump can do this. Should he and does it help? Maybe a little short term, but not worth the backlas

The actual text of the act uses the wording "considers". So yes.

It's a LITTLE more involved than that:

The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy, if it—
(1)
so hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or

(2)
opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.

In any situation covered by clause (1), the State shall be considered to have denied the equal protection of the laws secured by the Constitution.

Of course Trump will argue that immigration laws are being impeded.

 

[69360]

It's a LITTLE more involved than that:

The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy, if it—
(1)
so hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or

(2)
opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.

In any situation covered by clause (1), the State shall be considered to have denied the equal protection of the laws secured by the Constitution.

Of course Trump will argue that immigration laws are being impeded.

The wording is so vague, Trump would be fine.