Should the line about student visas be removed from the new immigration ad?

[user]

Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.

restrict immigration, including the granting of student visas, by individuals from nations listed as terrorist threats by the State department

 

[Aballistar]

Yes, the line should be removed. There is no such thing as a "terrorist nation," only individuals who are terrorists.

If we are to spread democracy and freedom, and ideals and such without using force, then education seems the best way to do that don't you think? Repressed muslim women studying at Berkely sounds like a great idea to me.

Just need to do a good background check first and see if there's anything in their past which leads authorities to beleive they have been gotten to.

Deny on a case by case basis.

 

[austin356]

Yes, the line should be removed. There is no such thing as a "terrorist nation," only individuals who are terrorists.

terrorism is a tactic..... individuals do not have a monopoly on this tactic.

 

[Revolution9]

Well, you're free to do what you want. If you plan on leaving the movement because a student in Saudi Arabia can't come to school in Princetown because we're trying to get things straightened out here, that's your perogative.

Bango!. I have been reading this thread and the James bye bye troll and this is what it comes down to. There is only so many seats at any given University. especially for the most lucrative or respectable degrees. These seats should be going to Americans and those seeking permanent residence for the benefit of America and her industries and research & development. Why should a Pakistani come here and learn nuclear physics and then return to Pakistan? What good does that do America? None. The possible harm from someone with this knowledge when targeted back at us is something to be considered.

As for the whining about designating various nations as terrorist nations.. Well currently I would say there are such entities in the world. Personally I consider the heroin trade financed and run government of Afghanistan to be terrorist. They are flooding our streets with cheap heroin. There have been some deaths from overdoses in this neighborhood over the summer because the potency was too high. So yeah.. they are killing Americans ( through their own stupidity but also the drug s not regulated and the potency is iffy from batch to batch..hence the need for regulation in regards to purity) and the American economy is bleeding narco-dollars. I woiuld sack Colombia into that terrorist nation slot as well. Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Khazakstan, several of the African countries.

Then..they want to do business with a prosperous USA and go to our prestigious schools. Then get your countries fucking act together and be a part of the world of peaceful nations. Mind you..the USA has a bit to do as well. In five years there may be no more terrorist nations..but currently animosity levels are so high and the heat so relentless that there needs to be this moratorium. The ad is proper in stating this and it allays fears of those who have been fed fear and engorged themselves on it.. This is the first part of their diet to wean them off it.

Best
Randy

 

[TheEvilDetector]

Bango!. I have been reading this thread and the James bye bye troll and this is what it comes down to. There is only so many seats at any given University. especially for the most lucrative or respectable degrees. These seats should be going to Americans and those seeking permanent residence for the benefit of America and her industries and research & development. Why should a Pakistani come here and learn nuclear physics and then return to Pakistan? What good does that do America? None. The possible harm from someone with this knowledge when targeted back at us is something to be considered.

As for the whining about designating various nations as terrorist nations.. Well currently I would say there are such entities in the world. Personally I consider the heroin trade financed and run government of Afghanistan to be terrorist. They are flooding our streets with cheap heroin. There have been some deaths from overdoses in this neighborhood over the summer because the potency was too high. So yeah.. they are killing Americans ( through their own stupidity but also the drug s not regulated and the potency is iffy from batch to batch..hence the need for regulation in regards to purity) and the American economy is bleeding narco-dollars. I woiuld sack Colombia into that terrorist nation slot as well. Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Khazakstan, several of the African countries.

Then..they want to do business with a prosperous USA and go to our prestigious schools. Then get your countries fucking act together and be a part of the world of peaceful nations. Mind you..the USA has a bit to do as well. In five years there may be no more terrorist nations..but currently animosity levels are so high and the heat so relentless that there needs to be this moratorium. The ad is proper in stating this and it allays fears of those who have been fed fear and engorged themselves on it.. This is the first part of their diet to wean them off it.

Best
Randy

Randy,

I respect your wit, clarity and creative writing, but I respectfully disagree with the essence of your argument.

IMO Collectivist punishment for individual acts is unbecoming a liberty candidate PERIOD.

All the best,

T.E.D

PS. This does not solve the problem, this forces would be terrorists to seek residency/citizenships from "non terrorist nations" to bypass the system while millions who did nothing wrong are denied an opportunity to gain education in the land of the free (which they will pay for), learn about american culture, increase understanding, bring back their perspective back to their country and reduce xenophobia. Of course, to ensure that American Citizens are not disadvantaged I am supportive of immigration quotas. Its the blanket denials I have a logical and ethical problem with.

PPS. Such a stance perpetuates xenophobia and it is counter productive due to this.

Imagine for a moment that a global terrorist network issues an order to carry out terrorist acts within USA for members in "non terrorist nations"
and these members carry this out.

What does US do now? Declare more "terrorist nations", alienate more potential students? Such a result would play into the hands of terrorists, for it
would isolate US further.

I do not get the logic of this approach for these types of reasons.

 

[LibertyEagle]

If it is going to bother some of the supporters so much, I think the line about student visas should be removed. It's not necessary to the ad.

 

[austin356]

Randy,

I respect your wit, clarity and creative writing, but I respectfully disagree with the essence of your argument.

IMO Collectivist punishment for individual acts is unbecoming a liberty candidate PERIOD.

All the best,

T.E.D

PS. This does not solve the problem, this forces would be terrorists to seek residency/citizenships from "non terrorist nations" to bypass the system while millions who did nothing wrong are denied an opportunity to gain education in the land of the free (which they will pay for), learn about american culture, increase understanding, bring back their perspective back to their country and reduce xenophobia. Of course, to ensure that American Citizens are not disadvantaged I am supportive of immigration quotas. Its the blanket denials I have a logical and ethical problem with.

PPS. Such a stance perpetuates xenophobia and it is counter productive due to this.

Imagine for a moment that a global terrorist network issues an order to carry out terrorist acts within USA for members in "non terrorist nations"
and these members carry this out.

What does US do now? Declare more "terrorist nations", alienate more potential students? Such a result would play into the hands of terrorists, for it
would isolate US further.

I do not get the logic of this approach for these types of reasons.

It does not matter if you are intellectually correct. We need to win. Taking these stances on non-issues to invoke a needed emotional response is worth the consequences of having the wrong policy if it serves the much greater good (elimination of preemptive war, incentives for global jihad, US imperial aggression, US corporate merchantialism, and a host of other crap)

 

[thuja]

If it is going to bother some of the supporters so much, I think the line about student visas should be removed. It's not necessary to the ad.

why should this ad run if it already causes such angst here? the ads should inspire enthusiasm, not anything dark and heavy.

 

[TheEvilDetector]

It does not matter if you are intellectually correct. We need to win. Taking these stances on non-issues to invoke a needed emotional response is worth the consequences of having the wrong policy if it serves the much greater good (elimination of preemptive war, incentives for global jihad, US imperial aggression, US corporate merchantialism, and a host of other crap)

Then my only hope is that Ron Paul remains the master of Politics as he is now and not Politics becoming a master of Ron Paul.

 

[takadi]

why should this ad run if it already causes such angst here? the ads should inspire enthusiasm, not anything dark and heavy.

THANK YOU! That's exactly what we need.

The ad before this was excellent.

I admit, the beginning of the immigration ad started out fine. People came here legally, our country was founded on immigrants, etc.

But if they just stuck to that and emphasized what Ron has been saying - that our economic policies are to blame like the welfare state, NOT the illegal immigrants who are scapegoats - maybe it would have been better.

 

[Materialist]

Yes, it should be removed. I know that I've already took down the Ron Paul signs that I put up. I hope there is a good explanation, because at this time I feel embarrassed that I spent time promoting him.

 

[takadi]

Yes, it should be removed. I know that I've already took down the Ron Paul signs that I put up. I hope there is a good explanation, because at this time I feel embarrassed that I spent time promoting him.

I think you might be overreacting a bit (if you are planning on dropping your support). I still hold my Ron Paul sign up loud and proud. He is no doubt still the best candidate in the race. This embarrassment should be focused on the campaign, not the man or his message

The campaign, especially its ad, as always been sparring with the grassroots effort, this is no exception. I would never drop my support though because of a dumb ad.

Ron Paul has made his immigration stance clear as day though. The tone of the ad might be wrong, but he's always been tough on illegal immigration, amnesty, and birthright citizenship since the beginning of the campaign.

I would ask the campaign to emphasize the economic implications, use less controversial imagery and phrases like "terrorist nations", and we're good to go

 

[Ron LOL]

Yes, it should be removed. I know that I've already took down the Ron Paul signs that I put up. I hope there is a good explanation, because at this time I feel embarrassed that I spent time promoting him.

Way to throw the baby out with the bath water there, ace.

 

[IHaveaDream]

I liked the ad the first time I watched it. Then I heard everyone complaining about the "terrorist nations" thing. So I watched the ad again and I realized why it might appear offensive, if not discriminatory. Personally, I'd like to see a complete moratorium on immigration until we get our house in order. But as far as the ad goes, I agree with those who feel that the part about denying student visas goes too far.

 

[IHaveaDream]

Yes, it should be removed. I know that I've already took down the Ron Paul signs that I put up. I hope there is a good explanation, because at this time I feel embarrassed that I spent time promoting him.

So who WILL you support? Ron Paul is still far better than anyone else in the race. Besides, he hasn't even been given an opportunity to respond yet. He often takes positions that make people gasp, but then goes on to offer an explanation that makes good sense.

 

[apc3161]

Yes, the line should be removed. There is no such thing as a "terrorist nation," only individuals who are terrorists.

If we are to spread democracy and freedom, and ideals and such without using force, then education seems the best way to do that don't you think? Repressed muslim women studying at Berkely sounds like a great idea to me.

Just need to do a good background check first and see if there's anything in their past which leads authorities to beleive they have been gotten to.

Deny on a case by case basis.

Exactly, you nailed exactly what I wanted to write.

1) People are terrorists, not nations. To label an entire nation as a terrorist nation almost implies that all the people there are terrorists

2) Imagine this, there is a country where the majority are the definitive "islamo fascist terrorists". Does that mean we shouldn't allow some of the moderates to come here and study? Of course not. If anything, we should be encouraging the moderates to come here so they can learn more about us and tell everyone back home that we aren't so bad (from their point of view).

Now, is that to say their shouldn't be more scrutiny into who we let in the country? No, I would possibly be in favor of this. But to go around saying "no students from terrorist nations" is a wrong in my opinion. That sounds like something Rudy would say.

Not something from the person who goes around saying "We should be friends with nations and spread our values through principle, not force"

 

[ladyliberty]

The status of who a "terrorist nation" is can change - with proper diplomacy and the backing of Congress. I think it would make an excellent point of leverage to allow only friendly foriegn nations to have student visas. what is so wrong with that????

The 19 terrorists who came to Florida were here on student visas. That is a point of weakness in our border defense. So is illegal immigration. All a member of Al Queida need do is change into a pair of jeans and work boots - take off the turban - and slip across our southern border - it is not too difficult for them to disguise themselves as illegal immigrants. They have brown skin, black hair and eyes, and look similar to Mexicans.

People we need a major overhaul on how we do our immigration process and who we let into our country.

The 14th ammendment has been preverted to allow for "anchor babies" to get entire families into the country illegally. I think Ron Paul is right to stop all such activity NOW, and then reform the way people are allowed into our country, in such a way that our national defense and economic resources ar no longer in jepoardy.

 

[Revolution9]

Randy,

I respect your wit, clarity and creative writing, but I respectfully disagree with the essence of your argument.

IMO Collectivist punishment for individual acts is unbecoming a liberty candidate PERIOD.

All the best,

T.E.D

PS. This does not solve the problem, this forces would be terrorists to seek residency/citizenships from "non terrorist nations" to bypass the system while millions who did nothing wrong are denied an opportunity to gain education in the land of the free (which they will pay for), learn about american culture, increase understanding, bring back their perspective back to their country and reduce xenophobia. Of course, to ensure that American Citizens are not disadvantaged I am supportive of immigration quotas. Its the blanket denials I have a logical and ethical problem with.

PPS. Such a stance perpetuates xenophobia and it is counter productive due to this.

Imagine for a moment that a global terrorist network issues an order to carry out terrorist acts within USA for members in "non terrorist nations"
and these members carry this out.

What does US do now? Declare more "terrorist nations", alienate more potential students? Such a result would play into the hands of terrorists, for it
would isolate US further.

I do not get the logic of this approach for these types of reasons.

Hi ED. When I emigrated from Canada to the US in 1980 I had to sign a giant stack of documents. My father-in-law had to sign a fudiciary pledge that i would never take a dime from the government and cover my own health insurance etc. The "collectivist" routine as portrayed by you does not hold water in situations such as this. there was never any "right" for me as a Canadian Citizen to enter into and take advantage of the US economy as it is for my son, born as an American. It was sheer privelege only which allowed me to gan access to the US. I was collectively one of those seeking entry to live here and collectively I got dealt with. I sure wold have liked to have been treated as an individual but fully understand there is no way they can possibly parse each individuals intent so they structured guidelines to adhere to that generally allowed that i would maintain the status of a good citizen once living in the US of A.

The other point you miss is that for the time being there are nations aligned against the US interests and will do damage to them if given the opportunity. However, under a Paul administration these countries will dwindle quickly in number. The world wants to do business with America. I can see diplomatic relations and trade resuming with Iran within two years of a Paul Presidency. As for students from other countries. let those countries build prestigou institutions of learning. They are capable. As well, our children need those seats at the American universities. We are the ones needing the shoring up of our engineering, production, a research and development and hard sciences brain trusts if we intend to compete as a nation in a non military fashion throughout the coming century. There is little point in training an engineer and them returning to their country. We need engineers here or we are destined to become a country of burger flippers, shoe shiners and Fuller brush salesmen.

As per your orders issued to non-terrorist aligned students.. Well..that looks like a police action and the shutting down of rogue criminal cells. If the state did not sponsor the terrorism nor issue the directive, which per your scenario was issued by the terrorist state ten this would again slot them right back into that little slot we use for crackheads, theves, rapists, muderers and thugs. And ya know what. I ain't letting the crackheads pal in my house. I could care less he doesn't smoke the shit and says Jesus saved him. Part of liberty is the ability to walk around unfettered and without fear.

best Regards
Randy

 

[apc3161]

There is little point in training an engineer and them returning to their country. We need engineers here or we are destined to become a country of burger flippers, shoe shiners and Fuller brush salesmen.

Seeing as I attended a top 5 university in this country and studied engineering I'm going to say this.

What MAKES our schools great IS the internationals. Some of my best friends and smartest people I knew at college were internationals. Not allowing them to come and learn here would be harmful to our country (especially considering that most of them end up staying here).

Your argument would almost imply that we should put an end to immigration or else all the smart internationals would "take our jobs" and we would "become a country of burger flippers, shoe shiners and Fuller brush salesmen."

If we were to not allow internationals to enter our country to study, our schools would take MAJOR hits, because they would lose a lot of talent. I would also like to point out that MOST of my professors were internationals. Should we also not let good teachers come too?

Last point, the best schools in this country are private. Who is the government to indirectly tell these schools what kind of people they can and cannot let study in their privately owned schools?

 

[Materialist]

So who WILL you support? Ron Paul is still far better than anyone else in the race. Besides, he hasn't even been given an opportunity to respond yet. He often takes positions that make people gasp, but then goes on to offer an explanation that makes good sense.

If this ad keeps running, I doubt that I'll support Ron Paul. Maybe, I'll vote for the Libertarian Party candidate, or maybe I won't vote for anyone. I'm not going to vote for a person I don't trust.