Should Teaparty07.com allow opting out of daily emails?

[Sematary]

Whether or not Trevor wants to abide by this or not is up to him but let's find out what people want...

 

[Exponent]

He has said elsewhere that the service he uses, which he wants to continue to use because of its known trustworthiness, doesn't allow individual options for each person who pledges. So it can't be done, if he keeps the service.

Admittedly, I personally have never heard of it, and see no big issue of trust involving simply giving out an email address (I could use a junk one if I wanted) and letting it be used to do a basic summation. However, perhaps it is a bigger issue to others, and many people have heard of the service and respect it. I myself am going to have a little faith in Trevor, and leave him to his own judgment on this matter.

Edit:

Here's the quote from Trevor, from this thread:

Feedburner doesn't give me options to set individual preferences, but the good side is Feedburner is a recognizable brand that adds trust to the situation. So it's a trade off. More people will sign up because they know they have a reputable third party protecting them.

 

[Visual]

It would be nice, but there are probably significantly more important things. What IS important is that people donate on the 16th. It's always nice to see more money than expected.

And again, thanks trevor for doing so much. Especially given everyone grabbing a limb and pulling.

 

[Flirple]

It would be nice, but there are probably significantly more important things. What IS important is that people donate on the 16th. It's always nice to see more money than expected.

And again, thanks trevor for doing so much. Especially given everyone grabbing a limb and pulling.

Ditto.

 

[fletcher]

Who the hell thought daily emails was a good idea? Why would anyone need daily emails? I didn't sign up because of it because the emails. Terrible idea.

 

[dfalken]

Who the hell thought daily emails was a good idea? Why would anyone need daily emails? I didn't sign up because of it because the emails. Terrible idea.

And just like yourself many people that visit the site after they see the add on USA Today will not sign up because of them and many of those will forget to donate on the 16th when they could have gotten a reminder email a few days before and the day of the event and not have to be worried about being burdened with a daily email. Trevor thinks the daily emails are a good idea and no matter how much I've pleaded with him to get rid of them he simply won't listen and at this point I am basically the black sheep here. A daily email is going to keep thousands from signing up but there is no way to get Trevor to understand this...I've tried to explain it a million different ways but I guess he doesn't know anyone that is too busy with their real job to not want to be spammed on a daily basis. I would normally never sign up for anything that offers to send me a regular email (much less a daily email).

 

[Edward]

I voted "yes", but I don't mind receiving the daily updates. I enjoy following the number of sign-ups.

 

[SwordOfShannarah]

Once again- I've posted my logic in other threads. All the naysayers thrive on partial info. I've stated my arguments before and just because you all insist on bringing up thread after thread doesn't mean I need to repost my same arguments over and over again.

Look in my posts and find my logic. If you can show me where my previously posted logic is wrong then we can talk, otherwise things stay the same. I'll respond to logic but not constant nagging.

You may have a point, but it's not the only point. Some things have trade offs and positives you aren't looking at. Quote all of my posts on the subject and then present your logic. If you don't do that don't scratch your head wondering why I'm not listening to you.

I'll add one more piece of logic (and no you can't only argue me on this one piece- post all my posts or get nothing). Does anyone think the flash donation counter was a good idea on RonPaul2008.com? Of course you do.. watching the total donations go up in real time?? It's brilliant. It give statistics of progress and that is proven to motivate people. Just ask Dr. Demming (who? look it up). hmmm, I wonder if there is a correlation I'm trying to reference? nah..

 

[Edward]

Once again- I've posted my logic in other threads. All the naysayers thrive on partial info.

For the record, I'm not a naysayer here. I have no idea of what is involved in making a website work. If it's easy to implement the opt-out, then great. If not, those who don't like it will learn to live with it. It seemed to work for November 5th just fine! Thanks again for all the great work you've done!

 

[James R]

I have yet to sign up because I don't want the daily emails.

 

[Energy]

I'll add one more piece of logic (and no you can't only argue me on this one piece- post all my posts or get nothing). Does anyone think the flash donation counter was a good idea on RonPaul2008.com? Of course you do.. watching the total donations go up in real time?? It's brilliant. It give statistics of progress and that is proven to motivate people. Just ask Dr. Demming (who? look it up). hmmm, I wonder if there is a correlation I'm trying to reference? nah..

Yeah, but RonPaul2008 doesn't send daily emails about the day's total.

RP2008's thermometer is teaparty07's graph and current pledge total.

Alternative if willing: Once or twice a week. Then a week before the 16th go daily to build the momentum.

 

[dfalken]

Once again- I've posted my logic in other threads. All the naysayers thrive on partial info. I've stated my arguments before and just because you all insist on bringing up thread after thread doesn't mean I need to repost my same arguments over and over again.

Look in my posts and find my logic. If you can show me where my previously posted logic is wrong then we can talk, otherwise things stay the same. I'll respond to logic but not constant nagging.

You may have a point, but it's not the only point. Some things have trade offs and positives you aren't looking at. Quote all of my posts on the subject and then present your logic. If you don't do that don't scratch your head wondering why I'm not listening to you.

I'll add one more piece of logic (and no you can't only argue me on this one piece- post all my posts or get nothing). Does anyone think the flash donation counter was a good idea on RonPaul2008.com? Of course you do.. watching the total donations go up in real time?? It's brilliant. It give statistics of progress and that is proven to motivate people. Just ask Dr. Demming (who? look it up). hmmm, I wonder if there is a correlation I'm trying to reference? nah..

I have read all of your posts and yes some of the arguments you present make sense but the daily email thing is a MAJOR problem and you are failing to think outside of the types of people that you associate with. Most people I know would NEVER sign up for anything that promises daily spam and if Ron Paul is going to win the election we are going to need those people to vote for him. I have made probably 50 posts presenting my logic every which way I can but I don't feel you are even considering it. If you would like I will even talk to you on the phone about it because I feel that strongly about how much this is going to hurt us. PM me with a phone number and I will call you or if you prefer to call me just PM me asking for my number this way I will know you are open to talking.

87% of those that have participated in this poll see why the daily PM is hurting this campaign yet you are completely ignoring that. Please stop and think and let's talk on the phone.

regards,
David

 

[maeqFREEDOMfree]

come on guys... if it's that big a deal.. instead of waiting for someone else to come along and save you from this annoyance... take it upon yourself to spend 5-10 minutes learning how to setup email filters and direct it into your trash

 

[bjneiman]

I voted in the poll to allow individuals to opt-out even though I know that's not a solution with Feedburner.

I would prefer to receive occasional emails instead of receiving them daily. I expect that language offering 'occasional emails' would net us additional sign-ups and still be a sufficient motivator.

Also, we could start out with occasional emails and as the day draws nearer the email frequency could increase.

 

[dfalken]

come on guys... if it's that big a deal.. instead of waiting for someone else to come along and save you from this annoyance... take it upon yourself to spend 5-10 minutes learning how to setup email filters and direct it into your trash

You are missing the forest for the trees! Sure I can set up an email filter to stop the annoyance, that is FAR from the point I am trying to make. You think the thousands of regular people that will visit the site because of the USA Today article or a mainstream media mention are going to take the time to do that? They will simply not sign up....I would never sign up for anything that promises daily spam and most people won't.

 

[dfalken]

I voted in the poll to allow individuals to opt-out even though I know that's not a solution with Feedburner.

I would prefer to receive occasional emails instead of receiving them daily. I expect that language offering 'occasional emails' would net us additional sign-ups and still be a sufficient motivator.

Also, we could start out with occasional emails and as the day draws nearer the email frequency could increase.

Good suggestion...just by saying ocassional emails instead of daily, we'll scare away less people. The vast majority of people will not sign up for anything that promises daily spam.

 

[SwordOfShannarah]

I have read all of your posts and yes some of the arguments you present make sense but the daily email thing is a MAJOR problem and you are failing to think outside of the types of people that you associate with. Most people I know would NEVER sign up for anything that promises daily spam and if Ron Paul is going to win the election we are going to need those people to vote for him. I have made probably 50 posts presenting my logic every which way I can but I don't feel you are even considering it. If you would like I will even talk to you on the phone about it because I feel that strongly about how much this is going to hurt us. PM me with a phone number and I will call you or if you prefer to call me just PM me asking for my number this way I will know you are open to talking.

87% of those that have participated in this poll see why the daily PM is hurting this campaign yet you are completely ignoring that. Please stop and think and let's talk on the phone.

regards,
David

ok one last time.. (I guess I'll just save this and copy and paste every time this comes up).

I use feedburner because on the internet most people have heard of it, but even if that is not the case you can click the link and see it is a top rate company. That means that a third party is involved, there is a privacy policy and more. As a visitor I feel more protected in this case. I know I can opt out if I want to and I'll never get an email again, never have to worry about being put on a spam list. In my mind that protection means more sign ups and makes it worth it to use feedburner.

Also from a webmasters point of view I am protected. If anyone wanted to sign up and complain of spam (say people from other campaigns, etc.) they could if the emails came from me- it might even cause trouble in keeping the site up (if they do it enough). Now spam complaints all go to feedburner and I don't have to worry about them hurting the site.

Feedburner doesn't give these "opt-out of daily emails but stay on this list" options, it doesn't give multiple pledge amounts options. For the reasons stated above and below, it's a trade off in my mind.

When I stop the daily emails I get people on the list emailing me stating that they are motivated by the daily emails and that they want them back.

I would rather keep those who get motivated by daily emails motivated. They keep promoting and that gets the word out. Some people they promote to come to the site and sign up and join the ranks of the motivated, others stay off the list but still donate anyway. None of those new people (both those who sign up and those who do not) would have been promoted to if it were not for the motivated promoters.

Then I look at the fact that there is such a thing as a filter that easily solves the problem of too many emails for those who don't want them. I also recognize that every day 1,000 people or so sign up and are brand new.. the emails come with tips on how to promote and usually some new news about what is going on (we were featured in this website or on that radio show, etc.). I think that is a very good thing for the new comers.

Then I look at the last time we did this (ThisNovember5th.com)

1- We had a 10% sign up rate. That number is most pure (and gives the best example of how well this works) because people didn't know about the site and so visitors couldn't be seen as repeat visitors like they are now. A 10% sign up rate is incredible in terms of marketing. That really hurts the idea that the way things are set up is keeping people from signing up.

2- There weren't any threads or complaints about daily emails last time. Not one. Now there are ten or so it seems. To me it seems like because there isn't the same controversial "V for Vendetta" element people are just looking for something new to complain about.. honestly.

3- I understand that there is a poll on this subject and it is asking for fewer emails, but I also note there are over 5,000 members on this board and only about 80 voted. I think that shows how unimportant people think this issue is. These polls are not scientific so it's hard to know true sentiment. If a few hundred had voted I would give it more validity. I know that's not totally fair, I'm not looking to discredit one of the major ways we tend to make decisions around here and I wouldn't stand on this point alone, but I do feel it should be noted that most are seemingly apathetic (for what it's worth).

4- We were incredibly successful last time so clearly daily emails didn't hurt. You might say, "but twice as many people donated than were on the list, wouldn't it have been nice to have them on the list?" Adam Curry who has 500,000 listeners is just one example of a broadcaster who spoke often about the donation day event but never mentioned the ThisNovember5th website. I think that was the case for a lot of people. They heard about the event but never know about the site. So that explains why so many people donated but didn't sign up, not that people don't want to get an email.

5- Again, last time we did this we were extremely successful. I'm reluctant to change key elements of this set up. That's not to say we can't improve things, but with each key change that could make things go up and we could also make things go down. It worked perfectly last time and we won't get another chance. I don't want to gamble with things.


If you feel you have some points that refute this logic please make your case. This isn't about being right, I would like to do what is best and most practical. If you come up with better logic and solutions I'll do my best to apply them.

Unless people address these issues I'm just going to copy and paste this into every new "stop being such a jerk and do what I say about the emails" thread that comes up. All I ask is that we try to make logical arguments.

 

[Trance Dance Master]

Good suggestion...just by saying ocassional emails instead of daily, we'll scare away less people. The vast majority of people will not sign up for anything that promises daily spam.

There you go. Three options for those who sign up. 1. Daily email 2. Weekly email 3. No emails except for December 16th reminder.

 

[dfalken]

ok one last time.. (I guess I'll just save this and copy and paste every time this comes up).

I use feedburner because on the internet most people have heard of it, but even if that is not the case you can click the link and see it is a top rate company. That means that a third party is involved, there is a privacy policy and more. As a visitor I feel more protected in this case. I know I can opt out if I want to and I'll never get an email again, never have to worry about being put on a spam list. In my mind that protection means more sign ups and makes it worth it to use feedburner.

Also from a webmasters point of view I am protected. If anyone wanted to sign up and complain of spam (say people from other campaigns, etc.) they could if the emails came from me- it might even cause trouble in keeping the site up (if they do it enough). Now spam complaints all go to feedburner and I don't have to worry about them hurting the site.

Feedburner doesn't give these "opt-out of daily emails but stay on this list" options, it doesn't give multiple pledge amounts options. For the reasons stated above and below, it's a trade off in my mind.

When I stop the daily emails I get people on the list emailing me stating that they are motivated by the daily emails and that they want them back.

I would rather keep those who get motivated by daily emails motivated. They keep promoting and that gets the word out. Some people they promote to come to the site and sign up and join the ranks of the motivated, others stay off the list but still donate anyway. None of those new people (both those who sign up and those who do not) would have been promoted to if it were not for the motivated promoters.

Then I look at the fact that there is such a thing as a filter that easily solves the problem of too many emails for those who don't want them. I also recognize that every day 1,000 people or so sign up and are brand new.. the emails come with tips on how to promote and usually some new news about what is going on (we were featured in this website or on that radio show, etc.). I think that is a very good thing for the new comers.

Then I look at the last time we did this (ThisNovember5th.com)

1- We had a 10% sign up rate. That number is most pure (and gives the best example of how well this works) because people didn't know about the site and so visitors couldn't be seen as repeat visitors like they are now. A 10% sign up rate is incredible in terms of marketing. That really hurts the idea that the way things are set up is keeping people from signing up.

2- There weren't any threads or complaints about daily emails last time. Not one. Now there are ten or so it seems. To me it seems like because there isn't the same controversial "V for Vendetta" element people are just looking for something new to complain about.. honestly.

3- I understand that there is a poll on this subject and it is asking for fewer emails, but I also note there are over 5,000 members on this board and only about 80 voted. I think that shows how unimportant people think this issue is. These polls are not scientific so it's hard to know true sentiment. If a few hundred had voted I would give it more validity.

4- We were incredibly successful last time so clearly daily emails didn't hurt. You might say, "but twice as many people donated than were on the list, wouldn't it have been nice to have them on the list?" Adam Curry who has 500,000 listeners is just one example of a broadcaster who spoke often about the donation day event but never mentioned the ThisNovember5th website. I think that was the case for a lot of people. They heard about the event but never know about the site. So that explains why so many people donated but didn't sign up, not that people don't want to get an email.


If you feel you have some points that refute this logic please make your case. This isn't about being right, I would like to do what is best and most practical. If you come up with better logic and solutions I'll do my best to apply them.

Unless people address these issues I'm just going to copy and paste this into every new "stop being such a jerk and do what I say about the emails" thread that comes up. All I ask is that we try to make logical arguments.

Trevor I have posted multiple long explanations justyfying the logic against the daily emails but I don't feel like you are REALLY reading any of them. I've read every single one of yours and I understand you can't physically give options because of feedburner and I understand you feel people remain motivated with the daily email. I am not sure I understand if using feedburner you have the option to have less frequent emails or not.

Like I've told you before..the people that are motivated to talk to others and participate in events will probably remain motivated regardless of whether they get the daily email or not. Plus they are probably signed up for other daily emails like The Paulunteer and many others (I know I am). However, the casual visitor to the site that saw it promoted on USA Today or another mainstream site will be immediately turned away by the proposition of a daily email. Think about some site you visit because you have just a little bit of curiosity that promises to send you a daily email, would you sign up for it? I know I wouldn't. You dismiss our poll where 88% say no daily emails on the basis that there is no interest in it. I see the number of people that voted in this poll to be pretty much the same as the number that have voted in any other recent poll and I really don't understand how you can possibly think that 88% is not significant. A poll of 100 people is pretty significant and if you know statistics you would know that the margin of error is probably less than 10%...meaning that if you were to poll the entire population the lowest number of people that would say no to daily emails would be 78%.

If you physically can't prevent feedburner from sending a daily email then at least don't mention the daily email on the site. People who sign up and get a daily email will be annoyed but not all of them will unsubscribe. But people who come the site and see the daily email proposition in many cases will never subscribe.

You argue that people who don't sign up will still remember to donate. This is true probably in most cases but a significant percentage of people who would have been happy to donate will simply not remember the date came and went. Many people that could be potential donors are not thinking about Ron Paul all day long. They are average folks who heard about him on tv and decided to throw in a few bucks for a good cause but are very likely to forget if not reminded.

Most people would have given up against your stubborness at this point but I am a strong supporter of Ron Paul just like yourself and I understand how much damage this daily email announcement on the site is going to cause so I have decided to keep going to try to get you to reason with me and the other 88% of the other supporters that have participated in the poll who also understand it.

There is no two ways about it, announcing a daily email on a site that will be visited by people who saw it mentioned on tv or the USA Today and have a slight curiosity to check it out will undoubtedly keep many of them from signing up. It is just a fact and a fact that is hurting the teaparty drive.

Also not mentioning that smaller donations than $100 are welcome will keep another whole bunch of people from signing up and many of them will undoubtedly end up forgetting the 16th came and went. Think about people you meet at the store, at Starbucks, at the supermarket...don't just think about the hardcore Ron Paul supporters that frequent these sites.

 

[SwordOfShannarah]

Trevor I have posted multiple long explanations justyfying the logic against the daily emails but I don't feel like you are REALLY reading any of them. I've read every single one of yours and I understand you can't physically give options because of feedburner and I understand you feel people remain motivated with the daily email. I am not sure I understand if using feedburner you have the option to have less frequent emails or not.

OK great- well I do have a lot of experience with these mundane types of things. I've been building and promoting different types of websites for over 10 years. I started in 95. So unless you "know" I'm going to override your gut feeling on this. No offense.

Like I've told you before..the people that are motivated to talk to others and participate in events will probably remain motivated regardless of whether they get the daily email or not.

I'm sorry but just saying that's the way it is doesn't make it so. I disagree with this conclusion and I have emails that come into my inbox that make me feel this way.

Plus they are probably signed up for other daily emails like The Paulunteer and many others (I know I am). However, the casual visitor to the site that saw it promoted on USA Today or another mainstream site will be immediately turned away by the proposition of a daily email.

again what do you base this on? We're talking about a person who is motivated enough to give $100 to Ron Paul. I don't think anyone who is willing to do this is a casual visitor or would be deterred by such a small thing as an email.

Think about some site you visit because you have just a little bit of curiosity that promises to send you a daily email, would you sign up for it?

Just a little bit of curiosity? See my above repsonse. You make such huge assumptions and pass them off as fact.

I know I wouldn't. You dismiss our poll where 88% say no daily emails on the basis that there is no interest in it. I see the number of people that voted in this poll to be pretty much the same as the number that have voted in any other recent poll and I really don't understand how you can possibly think that 88% is not significant. A poll of 100 people is pretty significant and if you know statistics you would know that the margin of error is probably less than 10%...meaning that if you were to poll the entire population the lowest number of people that would say no to daily emails would be 78%.

I've stated it's not my strongest point, but you are totally wrong to say a poll with 100 votes (which this doesn't have) has some kind of statistical merit. It doesn't.[/quote]

If you physically can't prevent feedburner from sending a daily email then at least don't mention the daily email on the site. People who sign up and get a daily email will be annoyed but not all of them will unsubscribe. But people who come the site and see the daily email proposition in many cases will never subscribe.

So you want me to lie and then hope people don't get angry. I'm not going to do that.

You argue that people who don't sign up will still remember to donate. This is true probably in most cases but a significant percentage of people who would have been happy to donate will simply not remember the date came and went. Many people that could be potential donors are not thinking about Ron Paul all day long. They are average folks who heard about him on tv and decided to throw in a few bucks for a good cause but are very likely to forget if not reminded.

Again I see nothing about our success or 10% sign up rate that says people aren't signing up for the most part. Anyone who likes Ron Paul enough to want to give him $100 is paying attention. That's why 30,000 donations was considered such a huge number (out of a nation of 300,000,000). It takes a lot to get someone to donate to a campaign. Again- anyone who is willing to donate is paying attention and is not going to forget.

Most people would have given up against your stubborness at this point but I am a strong supporter of Ron Paul just like yourself and I understand how much damage this daily email announcement on the site is going to cause so I have decided to keep going to try to get you to reason with me and the other 88% of the other supporters that have participated in the poll who also understand it.

Lets keep this off the soap box please. We're all Paul supporters here. This is not a logical argument but only an emotional appeal.

There is no two ways about it, announcing a daily email on a site that will be visited by people who saw it mentioned on tv or the USA Today and have a slight curiosity to check it out will undoubtedly keep many of them from signing up. It is just a fact and a fact that is hurting the teaparty drive.

This is a dogmatic approach. Saying something is so does not make it so. Please avoid this kind of an approach. Logic only please.

Also not mentioning that smaller donations than $100 are welcome will keep another whole bunch of people from signing up and many of them will undoubtedly end up forgetting the 16th came and went. Think about people you meet at the store, at Starbucks, at the supermarket...don't just think about the hardcore Ron Paul supporters that frequent these sites.

I mention these things in the emails that go out. It's common knowledge you can go to the site and donate. It worked wonderfully last time. The average donation was $125. Many many people gave more than $100, much more. So how can the average donation only be $125 if only people who gave $100 or more donated? The answer is that there were thousands of people who donated but gave less than $100.