Should President Trump open McCain Vietnam files . . . (?)

[Ender]

Ignore the atrocities of the past . . . and that is the history that gets to repeat itself toady.

True.

How about we open up a serious investigation on unconstitutional wars and hold the whole government at fault for every war from at least WWII?

 

[euphemia]

True.

How about we open up a serious investigation on unconstitutional wars and hold the whole government at fault for every war from at least WWII?

Starting with now and working backwards. I want to know where we are involved now, and why, and insist it be brought to an end.

 

[Jan2017]

Starting with now and working backwards. I want to know where we are involved now, and why, and insist it be brought to an end.

Now, about 39,000 USA troops stationed in Japan, with some 20,000 in South Korea and over 9,000 in Afghanistan.

I'd think - if anywhere - we really could use about 70,000 USA troops in Mexico instead!

 

[euphemia]

Nigeria—well, most of Africa. The Philippines. And why are we in Italy? Poland?

Supposedly this is counterterrorism. Link

 

[Ender]

Nigeria. The Philippines. And why are we in Italy?

And why do have have bases surrounding Iran? Why are we in the ME? Africa? S America?

 

[Swordsmyth]

What do you want to do to people who are now no longer here? What kind of accountability is that? Hold people accountable to day for the atrocities committed today. McCain is terminally ill. What can you hope to change by raking over the past. Stop the obscenity happening now.

The Truth Shall Set You Free.

All truth is important.

 

[Swordsmyth]

True.

How about we open up a serious investigation on unconstitutional wars and hold the whole government at fault for every war from at least WWII?

Starting with now and working backwards. I want to know where we are involved now, and why, and insist it be brought to an end.

If we can't even get the truth about the past we will never get the truth about the present with its much greater consequences.

 

[Jan2017]

My father did two tours over there that we remember, plus shorter missions, so please remind me what it's like to have a dad gone to war for most of my childhood. There were times when almost every dad on our block was off to war.

There is no point to opening the McCain files. Most of the people who went over there are dead or almost so. Nobody will ever be held accountable for the obscenity of it all.

Move on. There is obscenity going on all over the world today. This is something we can stop if we hold people accountable for what is happening now.

I am empathetic that it can be/is a wound that for some/many might be better not opened.

But McCain story is much, much more than that. For the USS Forrestal, history has been re-written - it is pure propaganda.

Anyone . . . say a junior high school kid wants to write a history paper and looks up the USS Forestal disaster . . .
he/she goes to the internet, does a google search, and comes back with how a missile went off and started the catastrophe.
It is selectively fed to us - maybe page 50 of the google search has something written in Swedish or something that no one even gets to.

I would love to ask McCain one simple yes/no question on what he said in the interview. . . actually a right/left question altho it could be phrased as a simple yes/no . . . "Was that the right side of your aircraft Lt. McCain ? it would seal the deal.

It is not catching him in a direct "lie" . . .

but I say his acknowledgement of the pilot adjacent to him (first that he saw) was on fire from jet fuel was a potential incriminating tidbit for the whole story, imho.
I'd already believe I know the answer by "how" he landed on the tarmac off the front nose of his plane (the left side, and facing mostly right while prone on the ground.
He would have to think a few steps ahead at what I was getting at . . . very doubtful.
But he may say like Hillary did so many times, that "he "doesn't recall"

And Lt. Caffey could handle the questioning as well . . .

 

[pcosmar]

The Truth Shall Set You Free.

All truth is important.

The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. If you worship me, it will all be yours.”

You can't handle the Truth.

McCain is Wholly Understandable. The Warmongers and Thieves are wholly understandable.
They serve the master of this world..

It is the reason Ron Paul could never be elected to power.. he failed the Luke 4 Challenge. He did not bow down.

 

[Jan2017]

#1 May 12, 1960 - McCain first loss of aircraft

This took place while McCain, a young, unmarried officer not long out of the very bottom-of-his-class Naval Academy graduation,
was in advanced flight training at Corpus Christi, Texas.

"John McCain was training in his AD-6 Skyraider on an overcast Texas morning in 1960 when he slammed into Corpus Christi Bay and sheared the skin off his plane's wings."

McCain's explanation continues to be inconsistent with Navy determinations of the cause of his Corpus Christi aircraft
landing on the bottom of the bay. So, the McCain lie has got to be ON - he is going into politics to rule us.
A 2008 investigative piece by The Los Angeles Times uncovers that the official Navy investigation blamed the aircraft loss
and near loss of his life was due to "inattention to altitude".

An intriguing clue perhaps for the Forrestal is by his own admission McCain
I "had not read the flight manual procedure" for how to eject from this aircraft . . .
So, is Johnny McCain the first pilot who gets to eject from an aircraft that had to blow off the cockpit clear canopy
from underneath the water while the aircraft is sinking (?)

#2 December 1961 - McCain plane over Iberian Pennisula causing property damage

Disturbing because same McCain flying problem, low altitude flying at too slow airspeed, aircraft is not totalled and gets repaired -
so NOT a loss of aircraft, though.

By his own admission McCain "had cut off electricity to a great many Spanish homes and created a small international incident."

The L.A. Times, which interviewed others who were in McCain's squadron at the time, reports in 2008 that
McCain returned to the carrier "with 10 feet of power line trailing from his plane, and with a severed oil line."

#3 November 28, 1965 - McCain loss of aircraft

Another loss of aircraft, and again on a descent for landing in tidal beach areas near Chesapeake Bay -
this aircraft ends up in trees along near the beach after McCain ejects at 1000 ft

"McCain had just begun his descent over unpopulated" (Thank God !)"... tidal terrain when the engine stalled out.
He went through the standard "relight" procedure three times - FAIL.

The Navy classified it as a "routine ejection" with McCain "on a deserted beach moments before the aircraft slams into a clump of trees."

In a report dated January 18, 1966, Navy says "it could not corroborate McCain's account and after a close examination of
the aircraft engines found "no discrepancies which would have caused or contributed to engine failure or malfunction."

But that report gets re-written later.

#4 July 29, 1967 - McCain loss of aircraft aboard USS Forrestal naval catastrophe

11:20am
- The Forrestal reports a major fire on the flight deck and all ships on "Yankee Station" move to give assistance.

11:32am -

- The USS Oriskany (CVA-34) sends medical helicopter as it steams toward Forrestal and moves it's planes
if any landings are needed aboard it. (No flights had taken off from the Forrestal but they didn't know that.)





An injured crewman from the burning U.S. Navy aircraft carrier USS Forrestal (CVA-59) is carried from U.S. Air Force Sikorsky HH-3E
Jolly Green Giant to the sick bay of USS Oriskany (CVA-34) off Vietnam, on 29 July 1967. Official U.S. Navy photo 1125494


McCain’s plane was fifth in line behind the jet blast deflector of catapult #3 aboard the Forrestal.
It was loaded with 400 gallons of jet fuel . . . but interviewed McCain said it was 200 gallons - wtf ? (the consistent mental defect relapse)
OR -
queue TopGun and the flight manual theory -gfgacts

McCain one week later on August 5, 1967 :
"When I saw LCDR Hope on the hangar deck, and I believe you can ask him about this, the first thing I said to him was,
‘Herb, I thought I had killed you.’
So I must have believed that it was from my aircraft at that time.
Then I heard so many other stories as to what happened, I didn’t believe it was my aircraft.
But at the time, I think, I believed that it was my aircraft or the one right next to it."


USN : "The first responders were Repair Party 8, led by Chief Petty Officer Gerald Farrier, who can be seen in the plat tapes
running toward McCain's Skyhawk."

This initial jet fuel fire was fought but ALL perished as the jet fuel seeped down to the hangars for two decks below and set off the explosions.

{insert USN jpg 21`1267593

The rest of the crew aboard the Forrestal would have to tackle this catastrophe without any firefighting training.


Film evidence certainly seems to refute a McCain account regarding the Zuni missile . . .
However, this story line by McCain does confirms he actually is IN the cockpit as missile goes by.

Flight operations were already stopped . . . main aircraft top control tower camera is already on McCain's aircraft.
the Zuni did not cause anything that they are saying.
Easily gonna be proved now that the whole final line can easily be shown to be a false narrative.

(get ready Johnny - hanging is SOON)











#5 October 26, 1967 - McCain loss of aircraft over Hanoi, North Vietnam /and in enemy hands

 

[enhanced_deficit]

Although McCain made great contributions (in bi-partisan partnership with Joe Lieberman & Lindsey Graham) for Iraqi freedom war, the way he treated MAGA POTUS was quite unfortunate:

McCain Takes Swipe At President For Vietnam 'Bone Spur' Deferment

October 23, 20173:53 AM ET
Scott Neuman

Sen John McCain, R-Ariz., returns to his office after a series of votes at the Capitol in Washington on Thursday.


https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...-at-president-for-vietnam-bone-spur-deferment

 

[Swordsmyth]

The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. If you worship me, it will all be yours.”


You can't handle the Truth.

McCain is Wholly Understandable. The Warmongers and Thieves are wholly understandable.
They serve the master of this world..

It is the reason Ron Paul could never be elected to power.. he failed the Luke 4 Challenge. He did not bow down.

GOD also takes a hand in choosing the leaders of this world when he feels that it is necessary.

[h=3]Jeremiah
Chapter 27[/h]
4 And command them to say unto their masters, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Thus shall ye say unto your masters;
5 I have made the earth, the man and the beast that are upon the ground, by my great power and by my outstretched arm, and have given it unto whom it seemed meet unto me.
6 And now have I given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, my servant; and the beasts of the field have I given him also to serve him.
7 And all nations shall serve him, and his son, and his son's son, until the very time of his land come: and then many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of him.
8 And it shall come to pass, that the nation and kingdom which will not serve the same Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, and that will not put their neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon, that nation will I punish, saith the LORD, with the sword, and with the famine, and with the pestilence, until I have consumed them by his hand.
9 Therefore hearken not ye to your prophets, nor to your diviners, nor to your dreamers, nor to your enchanters, nor to your sorcerers, which speak unto you, saying, Ye shall not serve the king of Babylon:
10 For they prophesy a lie unto you, to remove you far from your land; and that I should drive you out, and ye should perish.
11 But the nations that bring their neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon, and serve him, those will I let remain still in their own land, saith the LORD; and they shall till it, and dwell therein.


[h=3]Daniel
Chapter 4[/h] 1 Nebuchadnezzar the king, unto all people, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth; Peace be multiplied unto you.
2 I thought it good to shew the signs and wonders that the high God hath wrought toward me.
3 How great are his signs! and how mighty are his wonders! his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and his dominion is from generation to generation.
4 I Nebuchadnezzar was at rest in mine house, and flourishing in my palace:
5 I saw a dream which made me afraid, and the thoughts upon my bed and the visions of my head troubled me.
6 Therefore made I a decree to bring in all the wise men of Babylon before me, that they might make known unto me the interpretation of the dream.
7 Then came in the magicians, the astrologers, the Chaldeans, and the soothsayers: and I told the dream before them; but they did not make known unto me the interpretation thereof.
8 But at the last Daniel came in before me, whose name was Belteshazzar, according to the name of my god, and in whom is the spirit of the holy gods: and before him I told the dream, saying,
9 O Belteshazzar, master of the magicians, because I know that the spirit of the holy gods is in thee, and no secret troubleth thee, tell me the visions of my dream that I have seen, and the interpretation thereof.
10 Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth:
12 The leaves thereof were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was meat for all: the beasts of the field had shadow under it, and the fowls of the heaven dwelt in the boughs thereof, and all flesh was fed of it.
13 I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven;
14 He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches:
15 Nevertheless leave the stump of his roots in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth:
16 Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him.
17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.
18 This dream I king Nebuchadnezzar have seen. Now thou, O Belteshazzar, declare the interpretation thereof, forasmuch as all the wise men of my kingdom are not able to make known unto me the interpretation: but thou art able; for the spirit of the holy gods is in thee.
19 Then Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, was astonied for one hour, and his thoughts troubled him. The king spake, and said, Belteshazzar, let not the dream, or the interpretation thereof, trouble thee. Belteshazzar answered and said, My lord, the dream be to them that hate thee, and the interpretation thereof to thine enemies.
20 The tree that thou sawest, which grew, and was strong, whose height reached unto the heaven, and the sight thereof to all the earth;
21 Whose leaves were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was meat for all; under which the beasts of the field dwelt, and upon whose branches the fowls of the heaven had their habitation:
22 It is thou, O king, that art grown and become strong: for thy greatness is grown, and reacheth unto heaven, and thy dominion to the end of the earth.
23 And whereas the king saw a watcher and an holy one coming down from heaven, and saying, Hew the tree down, and destroy it; yet leave the stump of the roots thereof in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts of the field, till seven times pass over him;
24 This is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree of the most High, which is come upon my lord the king:
25 That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
26 And whereas they commanded to leave the stump of the tree roots; thy kingdom shall be sure unto thee, after that thou shalt have known that the heavens do rule.
27 Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity.
28 All this came upon the king Nebuchadnezzar.
29 At the end of twelve months he walked in the palace of the kingdom of Babylon.
30 The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?
31 While the word was in the king's mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, saying, O king Nebuchadnezzar, to thee it is spoken; The kingdom is departed from thee.
32 And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
33 The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.
34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
36 At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.
37 Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Although McCain made great contributions (in bi-partisan partnership with Joe Lieberman & Lindsey Graham) for Iraqi freedom war, the way he treated MAGA POTUS was quite unfortunate:

McCain Takes Swipe At President For Vietnam 'Bone Spur' Deferment

October 23, 20173:53 AM ET
Scott Neuman

Sen John McCain, R-Ariz., returns to his office after a series of votes at the Capitol in Washington on Thursday.


https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...-at-president-for-vietnam-bone-spur-deferment

Yes, a traitor has no right to attack a 4-F who shows more love for his country than the traitor.

 

[pcosmar]

GOD also takes a hand in choosing the leaders of this world when he feels that it is necessary.

Did God Destroy Job?

And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

He says He did,, even though he only Allowed Satan to attack him. Satan Attacked Job..

don't misplace blame,, God takes responsibility for his evil creation at times,,,, But Don't blame God for what Satan does.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Did God Destroy Job?



He says He did,, even though he only Allowed Satan to attack him. Satan Attacked Job..

don't misplace blame,, God takes responsibility for his evil creation at times,,,, But Don't blame God for what Satan does.

GOD does allow the devil to control the world to a great degree for his purposes but he also takes control himself when his plans require it or when the righteous deserve it.

Nebuchadnezzar was a better man than those who sought to seize power from him and GOD directly restored him to power when he had humbled him.

There are other examples throughout the Bible and history as well.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Did God Destroy Job?



He says He did,, even though he only Allowed Satan to attack him. Satan Attacked Job..

don't misplace blame,, God takes responsibility for his evil creation at times,,,, But Don't blame God for what Satan does.

GOD does allow the devil to control the world to a great degree for his purposes but he also takes control himself when his plans require it or when the righteous deserve it.

Nebuchadnezzar was a better man than those who sought to seize power from him and GOD directly restored him to power when he had humbled him.

There are other examples throughout the Bible and history as well.

[h=1]Isaiah 44:28[/h] “That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.”

King James Version (KJV)

 

[pcosmar]

There are other examples throughout the Bible and history as well.

There are stories throughout.. and a common theme..

The destruction of Nebuchadnezzar's empire,, as well as every one to come is also recorded.

He uses their folly to accomplish His purpose.

Don't Be a heathen,, and don't be like the heathen

Now appoint a king to judge us like all the other nations.”

And the LORD said to Samuel, “Listen to the voice of the people in all that they say to you, for it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected Me as their king.

 

[Swordsmyth]

There are stories throughout.. and a common theme..

The destruction of Nebuchadnezzar's empire,, as well as every one to come is also recorded.

Most societies tend to decay and end up deserving to be destroyed but it didn't happen under Nebuchadnezzar.

He uses their folly to accomplish His purpose.

Don't Be a heathen,, and don't be like the heathen

Now appoint a king to judge us like all the other nations.” And the LORD said to Samuel, “Listen to the voice of the people in all that they say to you, for it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected Me as their king.

The Israelites were not anarchic before they demanded a King, they had the judges that GOD chose for them and they had their tribal princes.

 

[pcosmar]

The Israelites were not anarchic before they demanded a King, they had the judges that GOD chose for them and they had their tribal princes.

I never said they were.. That is something YOU pulled out of thin air again.

I am not an anarchist.. do not believe it is possible for anarchy to exist outside of momentary chaos.

You seem fixated on it.

 

[Swordsmyth]

I never said they were.. That is something YOU pulled out of thin air again.

I am not an anarchist.. do not believe it is possible for anarchy to exist outside of momentary chaos.

You seem fixated on it.

I mentioned it because the LORD does choose rulers from time to time and he may keep the devil from choosing them at times when he does not interfere himself, this conversation is about who chooses the rulers in this world and the Judges were directly chosen by GOD while the tribal princes were hereditary and thus may have been chosen by GOD who determines which children are sent to which parents. (GOD also may let the devil have a hand in choosing which children are sent to ruling families but I never denied his involvement in the ruling of the world)