Should Palestine be held to lower standards than Israel?

[OReich]

Hamas MP (Hamas is ruling party in Gaza, they're funded and armed by Iran), telling Palestinians to get themselves killed for religious martyrdom and anti-Israel propaganda: "For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry at which women excel, and so do all the people living on this land. The elderly exceed at this, and so do the mujahideen and the children. This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children."



Palestine brainwashing its children to murder Jews:




Criticizing Israel isn't anti-semitic, and being anti-Zionist isn't anti-Semitic (I'm anti-Zionist, I'm for total church and state separation). However, if you're anti-Zionist but NOT anti-Sharia law, you're definitely an anti-Semite and a bigot. If you blatantly hold the only Jewish nation to completely different standards than the rest of the world, that's anti-Semitism. If you wanna criticize Israel's secular democracy for having a pro-Jewish immigration policy, then criticize Palestinian Sharia law for their fifty billion racist and bigoted laws. If you wanna criticize Israel for hitting civilians when they try to take out Palestine's rocket launchers, then criticize Gaza's govt for TARGETING civilians with thousands of rockets per yr, promising to kill every Jew, and using human shields. Don't just bitch and whine about a secular democracy being attacked by a half dozen Sharia law shitholes, be OBJECTIVE and hold all human beings to the same standards.

Israel has offered 20+ peace treaties, Palestine has rejected all and offered NONE, simply promising to destroy Israel, and on top of that Israeli Muslims have equal rights in Israel. Palestine and the Arabs have been invading Israel and promising to destroy and implement Sharia law for 70 yrs, they want to destroy the one country where ppl have actual rights (Muslim women vote in Israel ffs, they have RIGHTS), and when Israel responds, ppl flip out as if they're not being hit by thousands of rockets per yr. When ppl argue that Israel is the sole country on Earth that cannot destroy rocket launchers currently firing rockets at their schools, that's anti-Semitism. When Hamas (funded and armed by Iran) tells its ppl to go get themselves killed for propaganda purposes and religious martyrdom, because they know they can't win militarily, and then ppl blame Israel for Hamas' use of human shields, that's anti-Semitism. Telling the one Jewish country to lay down and die because their medieval savage invaders use human shields is anti-Semitism. Just hold all human beings to the same standards, and stop defending Palestine's bullshit.

Palestine executes ppl for leaving Islam, criticizing Islam or selling land to Jews, they don't let Jews pray at holy sites, their schools and media demonize Jews. If you call Israel's secular democracy 'apartheid' even though Muslims have equal rights, but don't call Palestine 'apartheid' for their fifty thousand bigoted laws, you're a bigot and and an anti-Semite who holds Jews to different standards just as an excuse for bashing them.


All of Israel's critics love to whine about Netanyahu, even though every (or nearly every) Palestinian leader EVER has murdered Jewish children solely for being Jewish. Al-Husseini, the leader in 1948, was in the Nazi SS, recruiting North Africans for the Holocaust. Arafat was a terrorist that murdered innocent ppl, Abbas (the current leader) funded the 1972 Olympic massacre. If you whine about Netanyahu, but you're not whining about Gaza's govt spokesman saying Jews eat babies, you're a bigot and an anti-Semite.

 

[A. Havnes]

I'm not the most fluent Arabic speaker in the world, but I know enough to tell you that those captions are false, at least in the educational videos. They were put there either to stir up emotions or as a joke, kind of like the Hitler rants videos. Not a very funny joke, though, for either Arabs or Jews.

As for your question, I would have to say that I don't think Palestinians should be held to lower standards (I personally ascribe to a peaceful resistance-type of approach to human rights violations along the same lines as Gandhi and MLK), but I do believe their actions need to be scrutinized in context, just as every government's and every individual's actions need to be examined within the context that they were done.

When you pour over the history of this conflict, you find fault on both sides. However, basic psychology will tell us that people who in a more desperate situation are going to act the most irrationally and the most extreme. As of right now, both sides are filled with prejudice (Palestinians are playing the victim card and Israelis are playing the Zionist card) and something outside of Israel's attempts at damage control and Palestine's attempts at revolution needs to happen to bring about peace.

It's also a given that in a situation of conflict, you'll have extremists who'll take advantage of the chaos for their own agendas, whether that means implementing Sharia law or forcing an entire indigenous population off their land in the name of God. It's amazing what conflict will do!

So, no, I don't believe that Palestinians should be given lower standards, although I do sympathize with them and all other oppressed peoples. I mostly hope that guys like this will be the future role model of young Palestinians.

EDIT: I suppose I should say this: I believe that the standards are the same for everyone. Israel, US, Palestine, Russia, UK, Australia, China, Japan, etc. The standards do not fluctuate. In my opinion, both Palestine and Israel are in the wrong.

 

[OReich]

I'm not the most fluent Arabic speaker in the world, but I know enough to tell you that those captions are false, at least in the educational videos. They were put there either to stir up emotions or as a joke, kind of like the Hitler rants videos. Not a very funny joke, though, for either Arabs or Jews.

As for your question, I would have to say that I don't think Palestinians should be held to lower standards (I personally ascribe to a peaceful resistance-type of approach to human rights violations along the same lines as Gandhi and MLK), but I do believe their actions need to be scrutinized in context, just as every government's and every individual's actions need to be examined within the context that they were done.

When you pour over the history of this conflict, you find fault on both sides. However, basic psychology will tell us that people who in a more desperate situation are going to act the most irrationally and the most extreme. As of right now, both sides are filled with prejudice (Palestinians are playing the victim card and Israelis are playing the Zionist card) and something outside of Israel's attempts at damage control and Palestine's attempts at revolution needs to happen to bring about peace.

It's also a given that in a situation of conflict, you'll have extremists who'll take advantage of the chaos for their own agendas, whether that means implementing Sharia law or forcing an entire indigenous population off their land in the name of God. It's amazing what conflict will do!

So, no, I don't believe that Palestinians should be given lower standards, although I do sympathize with them and all other oppressed peoples. I mostly hope that guys like this will be the future role model of young Palestinians.

EDIT: I suppose I should say this: I believe that the standards are the same for everyone. Israel, US, Palestine, Russia, UK, Australia, China, Japan, etc. The standards do not fluctuate. In my opinion, both Palestine and Israel are in the wrong.

If you think the videos are false, translate the videos for us. Until then, I don't believe you, MEMRI has been used by many media organizations, all of whom have translators. And btw, Palestine and the Arab states openly seek destroy Israel to impose Sharia law and all its bigoted laws. They're not oppressed, they are the oppressors. This is why Gaza elected Hamas (which is funded and armed by Iran), a terrorist group promising to kill every Jew. For 70 yrs Israel has offered peace treaties and Palestine rejects all of them. The fact that you ignore all Palestinian history, action and leaders and instead try to segway to some Palestinian activist that is NOT the govt of Gaza, and doesn't believe in genocide (like Gaza's leaders), shows that Palestine needs to CHANGE ffs.

Israel offered 90+% of the PA territories in 2000, including the dismantling of the vast majority of the settlements. Palestine said no and murdered 700 Israelis in suicide bombings. Palestinians are desperate for REFORM and non-violence. Until they stop attacking Israel and promising to destroy it and kill every Jew, don't expect Hamas to get a state. And don't expect Palestinians to get a state so long as they keep electing Hamas. You love to talk about everything the Palestinians have been through like this is about their psychology, proving my point that you can't hold them to the same standards as other human beings. Every Israeli knows multiple ppl who have died from Arab wars or terrorism supported by the majority of Palestinians, I don't hear you infantilizing Israelis and treating them like children that need to be coddled. But when Hamas promises to kill every Jew (promised in the Hadith), you talk about everything they've been through. Palestine needs to learn to criticize their own govt for starting dozens of wars against Israel, all of which they have lost and will continue to lose.

You're also ignoring 1400 yrs of oppressive Islamic Sharia law that treated Jews like dirt. And don't give me all the b-s about them being better during the dark ages, that's not worth shit. If you have to go back to the dark ages to say they're better than medieval Europe, then you'll prove my pt yet again: you hold Palestinians to lower standards. They invaded Israel and promised to destroy it in 1948, before any land was stolen under any definition, because Jews had the audacity to set up a secular democracy (where even Muslim women can vote and own land, go to school, etc.), rather than yet another Sharia law shithole. You wanna complain about everything Palestinians have been through? How about you hold them to the same standards as everyone else on this planet that MOVES THE FUCK ON from what they've been though. How about you blame Palestinians for starting every single war in which they got their asses kicked. How about holding Palestine responsible for THEIR ACTIONS, rather than playing this psychoanalysis game that actually demonstrates your total ignorance about the history of this conflict. Why not psychoanalyze all the Israelis who have been through hellacious wars but still offer peace treaties, go psychoanalyze them.

 

[enhanced_deficit]

Should Palestine be held to lower standards than Israel?

Nope, Palestine should be held to same standard as Israel and the two should be treated equally; arabs=jews should be made a requirement for all parties to accept and none declared more chosen/supremacist than the other when resolving land disputes between them under international law. US tax payers should provide same amount of financial/military aid to Palestine and Israel and anti-semitism towads both Palestinians and Israelis should be frowned upon/rejected. Supporting occupation of Palestinians and Israelis should be made an offense worthy of public ridicule and disgrace. Obama administration should have equal number of arab-semites and jewsish-semites in the White House staff under a same-standards affirimative action policy.

Now that your question has been answered, looking forward to hear your rational answers to below questions in order to get clarification about your views.

Hamas MP (Hamas is ruling party in Gaza), telling Palestinians to get themselves killed for religious martyrdom and anti-Israel propaganda: "For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry at which women excel, and so do all the people living on this land.

If Hamas is so bad, can you explain why Israel created Hamas and detained most secular/Christian Palestinian leaders?

Which was worse for Israel, a strong scecular/Christian led PFLP / PLO or sharia Islamists led Hamas?

Do you believe arabs and jews are equal as races OR one is more chosen than the other? If the latter, which race is more chosen?

Should Iran and Israel be held to same standards and their nuclear programs treated in same way?

If US Christians treated US Jews as Israeli Jews treat Palestinian Christians, would it be fair treatment in your view?

Do you see PFLP/PLO/Irgun as terrorist groups?

The elderly exceed at this, and so do the mujahideen and the children. This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children."
Palestine brainwashing its children to murder Jews:

It's not a one sided argument.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjEd4hJNVCE

#samestandards

 

[A. Havnes]

If you think the videos are false, translate the videos for us. Until then, I don't believe you, MEMRI has been used by many media organizations, all of whom have translators. And btw, Palestine and the Arab states openly seek destroy Israel to impose Sharia law and all its bigoted laws. They're not oppressed, they are the oppressors. This is why Gaza elected Hamas, a terrorist group promising to kill every Jew. For 70 yrs Israel has offered peace treaties and Palestine rejects all of them. The fact that you ignore all Palestinian history, action and leaders and instead try to segway to some Palestinian activist that is NOT the govt of Gaza, and doesn't believe in genocide (like Gaza's leaders), shows that Palestine needs to CHANGE ffs.

Israel offered 90+% of the PA territories in 2000, including the dismantling of the vast majority of the settlements. Palestine said no and murdered 700 Israelis in suicide bombings. Palestinians are desperate for REFORM and non-violence. Until they stop attacking Israel and promising to destroy it and kill every Jew, don't expect Hamas to get a state. And don't expect Palestinians to get a state so long as they keep electing Hamas. You love to talk about everything the Palestinians have been through like this is about their psychology, proving my point that you can't hold them to the same standards as other human beings. Every Israeli knows multiple ppl who have died from Arab wars or terrorism supported by the majority of Palestinians, I don't hear you infantilizing Israelis and treating them like children that need to be coddled. But when Hamas promises to kill every Jew (promised in the Hadith), you talk about everything they've been through. Palestine needs to learn to criticize their own govt for starting dozens of wars against Israel, all of which they have lost and will continue to lose.

You're also ignoring 1400 yrs of oppressive Islamic Sharia law that treated Jews like dirt. And don't give me all the b-s about them being better during the dark ages, that's not worth shit. If you have to go back to the dark ages to say they're better than medieval Europe, then you'll prove my pt yet again: you hold Palestinians to lower standards. They invaded Israel and promised to destroy it in 1948, before any land was stolen under any definition, because Jews had the audacity to set up a secular democracy (where even Muslim women can vote and own land, go to school, etc.), rather than yet another Sharia law shithole. You wanna complain about everything Palestinians have been through? How about you hold them to the same standards as everyone else on this planet that MOVES THE FUCK ON from what they've been though. How about you blame Palestinians for starting every single war in which they got their asses kicked. How about holding Palestine responsible for THEIR ACTIONS, rather than playing this psychoanalysis game that actually demonstrates your total ignorance about the history of this conflict. Why not psychoanalyze all the Israelis who have been through hellacious wars but still offer peace treaties, go psychoanalyze them.

I love how I give you my response regarding my own ideology and then you spin it into a general ignorance about the region, the races, and their histories. It seems that you're a person full of hate yourself, and hold a strong view of "if you're not with me, you're against me!" Or "if you're not in full support of Israel, or have any shred of sympathy for Palestinians, then you're anti-Israel!"

Just to let you know, I do hold Palestinians responsible for their actions. I already stated that both sides are basically fueling the conflict, and both have groups that are taking advantage of it as well. They are all responsible for their deplorable actions, regardless of whether you think one side is right and the other wrong. Taking the situation into account the kinds of crazies it's spawned does not mean that I approve of Hamas or his nutty party; it means that I'm confident that a change of approach on both ends will produce a better outcome faster.

As for wanting to complain about everything the Palestinians have been through, when did I specifically mention anything that they've been through? I'm simply saying that occupation is going to play a role in their point of view and that it promotes extremism. Yes, they are in a desperate situation, and that will promote irrationality. I'm not saying that it's right or that they're entitled to it, I'm just stating a fact. It doesn't mean they aren't responsible for their own actions, and it doesn't mean they can't be held at the same level of accountability as other people; it means that if you want to move forward, you have to address the current situation and state of mind.

Israel also has its own point of view, though. They are caught between the fear that these extremists will infiltrate government (Sharia law) or attempt to exact revenge and not inciting the criticism of the rest of the world. The situation has gotten really bad for them as well. They may not be occupied, but the fear is still there.

Regardless of the region's history, what both sides need to do is look at the present situation and adopt a radically different ideology. As you said, they need to move on, and as I said, I prefer the Gandhi approach to conflict, and if both sides started to take baby steps in this direction, I think there's hope for the region yet.

As for the videos, they are no doubt extreme. Another symptom of the virulent hate that runs through people, and there's no way it would fly in the United States. However, it seems that the responses and messages have been exaggerated. I can't give full translations, as I'm a Japanese-English translator, not an Arabic-English translator. My knowledge of the language isn't good enough to give a translation that I'd consider acceptable.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

If you think the videos are false, translate the videos for us. Until then, I don't believe you, MEMRI has been used by many media organizations, all of whom have translators. And btw, Palestine and the Arab states openly seek destroy Israel to impose Sharia law and all its bigoted laws. They're not oppressed, they are the oppressors. This is why Gaza elected Hamas, a terrorist group promising to kill every Jew. For 70 yrs Israel has offered peace treaties and Palestine rejects all of them. The fact that you ignore all Palestinian history, action and leaders and instead try to segway to some Palestinian activist that is NOT the govt of Gaza, and doesn't believe in genocide (like Gaza's leaders), shows that Palestine needs to CHANGE ffs.

Israel offered 90+% of the PA territories in 2000, including the dismantling of the vast majority of the settlements. Palestine said no and murdered 700 Israelis in suicide bombings. Palestinians are desperate for REFORM and non-violence. Until they stop attacking Israel and promising to destroy it and kill every Jew, don't expect Hamas to get a state. And don't expect Palestinians to get a state so long as they keep electing Hamas. You love to talk about everything the Palestinians have been through like this is about their psychology, proving my point that you can't hold them to the same standards as other human beings. Every Israeli knows multiple ppl who have died from Arab wars or terrorism supported by the majority of Palestinians, I don't hear you infantilizing Israelis and treating them like children that need to be coddled. But when Hamas promises to kill every Jew (promised in the Hadith), you talk about everything they've been through. Palestine needs to learn to criticize their own govt for starting dozens of wars against Israel, all of which they have lost and will continue to lose.

You're also ignoring 1400 yrs of oppressive Islamic Sharia law that treated Jews like dirt. And don't give me all the b-s about them being better during the dark ages, that's not worth shit. If you have to go back to the dark ages to say they're better than medieval Europe, then you'll prove my pt yet again: you hold Palestinians to lower standards. They invaded Israel and promised to destroy it in 1948, before any land was stolen under any definition, because Jews had the audacity to set up a secular democracy (where even Muslim women can vote and own land, go to school, etc.), rather than yet another Sharia law shithole. You wanna complain about everything Palestinians have been through? How about you hold them to the same standards as everyone else on this planet that MOVES THE FUCK ON from what they've been though. How about you blame Palestinians for starting every single war in which they got their asses kicked. How about holding Palestine responsible for THEIR ACTIONS, rather than playing this psychoanalysis game that actually demonstrates your total ignorance about the history of this conflict. Why not psychoanalyze all the Israelis who have been through hellacious wars but still offer peace treaties, go psychoanalyze them.

Wow. Just, SMFH. I'll just leave this here because there's too much for me to sit around and fix here^^

 

[presence]

Gaza and the West Bank are OCCUPIED.

I sincerely hope they draw blood swiftly and often from the forces of occupation, illegitimate settlement, and blockade.

 

[OReich]

I love how I give you my response regarding my own ideology and then you spin it into a general ignorance about the region, the races, and their histories. It seems that you're a person full of hate yourself, and hold a strong view of "if you're not with me, you're against me!" Or "if you're not in full support of Israel, or have any shred of sympathy for Palestinians, then you're anti-Israel!"

Just to let you know, I do hold Palestinians responsible for their actions. I already stated that both sides are basically fueling the conflict, and both have groups that are taking advantage of it as well. They are all responsible for their deplorable actions, regardless of whether you think one side is right and the other wrong. Taking the situation into account the kinds of crazies it's spawned does not mean that I approve of Hamas or his nutty party; it means that I'm confident that a change of approach on both ends will produce a better outcome faster.

As for wanting to complain about everything the Palestinians have been through, when did I specifically mention anything that they've been through? I'm simply saying that occupation is going to play a role in their point of view and that it promotes extremism. Yes, they are in a desperate situation, and that will promote irrationality. I'm not saying that it's right or that they're entitled to it, I'm just stating a fact. It doesn't mean they aren't responsible for their own actions, and it doesn't mean they can't be held at the same level of accountability as other people; it means that if you want to move forward, you have to address the current situation and state of mind.

Israel also has its own point of view, though. They are caught between the fear that these extremists will infiltrate government (Sharia law) or attempt to exact revenge and not inciting the criticism of the rest of the world. The situation has gotten really bad for them as well. They may not be occupied, but the fear is still there.

Regardless of the region's history, what both sides need to do is look at the present situation and adopt a radically different ideology. As you said, they need to move on, and as I said, I prefer the Gandhi approach to conflict, and if both sides started to take baby steps in this direction, I think there's hope for the region yet.

As for the videos, they are no doubt extreme. Another symptom of the virulent hate that runs through people, and there's no way it would fly in the United States. However, it seems that the responses and messages have been exaggerated. I can't give full translations, as I'm a Japanese-English translator, not an Arabic-English translator. My knowledge of the language isn't good enough to give a translation that I'd consider acceptable.

The reason I changed the subject from your ideology is because it didn't support your argument, and I explained why. Its great that you pointed out that there's a Palestinian kid who wants reform, that really is a great thing, but you act like that's stopping Gaza (funded and armed by Iran) from firing rockets at Jews and promising to kill all of them. I'm NOT projecting my ideology onto any of this, I'm anti-Zionist and anti-Sharia law but I know both are going to be there for a very long time. I'm not pretending Palestine or Israel will go through some amazing secular reformation anytime soon. But in reality, Zionism is a secular democracy that treats every group and gender the same, Palestine treats non-Muslims and women like dirt, while Gaza specifically promises to kill all Jews.

I pretty much agree with everything you say there, a lot of blame falls on Israel too, but its ridiculous to argue about what the Palestinians have been through while ignoring everything the Israelis have been through (EVERYONE knows ppl who died from wars or terrorism). Meanwhile, Israelis still manage to offer peace treaties which cede land conquered in wars started by the Arabs, and the Arabs started all the wars since BEFORE any of the Israeli land theft (most of which was offered back for peace but rejected). And your false equivalency ignores the daily reality that Israeli Muslims vote, own land, everything, while Gaza promises to kill every Jew. Stop equating them. Palestinian schools and children's shows tell their kids to kill Jews, Israel's schools say they want a two-state solution. They're not the same.

Gaza and the West Bank are OCCUPIED.

I sincerely hope they draw blood swiftly and often from the forces of occupation, illegitimate settlement, and blockade.

Its nice that you want to end the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, but that's NOT Palestine's goals or position. They want all of Israel. You're just making things up here. Gaza, 40% of Palestine's population, elected Hamas (which is funded and armed by Iran) a terror group promising to kill every Jew, and Palestine and the Arabs invaded Israel in 1948 before ANY land theft and before ANY occupation. If all they wanted was the West Bank and Gaza, there would have been peace since 1948.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Its nice that you want to end the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, but that's NOT Palestine's goals or position. They want all of Israel. You're just making things up here. Gaza, 40% of Palestine's population, elected a terror group promising to kill every Jew, and Palestine and the Arabs invaded Israel in 1948 before ANY land theft and before ANY occupation. If all they wanted was the West Bank and Gaza, there would have been peace since 1948.

I reckon they weren't asking for their territory to be made into an open-air prison.

 

[OReich]

I reckon they weren't asking for their territory to be made into an open-air prison.

By complaining repeatedly about the occupation of the West Bank and the blockade of Gaza, are you saying that Israel should just end the blockade without a peace treaty, even as Gaza's govt continues to try to kill every Jew? You think Israel should just let Hamas form a full military, and let them carry out their mission to kill every Jew? And the PA in the West Bank is still promising to destroy Israel. You're not offering solutions, you're just telling Israel to pretend they're not being attacked by genocidal invaders. (Hamas gets a ton of money and weapons from Iran btw.)

You keep looking at this war as if Palestinians aren't doing anything, you hold them to zero standards. Palestine (including Gaza) was invading and promising to destroy Israel BEFORE the occupation, and Gaza (40% of their population) elected Hamas, wpich promises to destroy Israel and kill every Jew. Palestine keeps losing the wars that they start, and they refuse to stop, they even brainwash their kids to get killed while killing Jews, see the videos in the opening post.

I really want to know if you're saying Israel should just end the occupation tomorrow morning. You think Hamas is being hyperbolic when they promise to kill every Jew, or brainwash their own kids to kill Jews? Maybe you should be talking some sense into Palestine, and this whole "Go kill the Jews" thing. I think that might be a big obstacle to peace, wouldn't you agree?

 

[heavenlyboy34]

By complaining repeatedly about the occupation of the West Bank and the blockade of Gaza, are you saying that Israel should just end the blockade without a peace treaty, even as Gaza's govt continues to try to kill every Jew? You think Israel should just let Hamas form a full military, and let them carry out their mission to kill every Jew? And the PA in the West Bank is still promising to destroy Israel. You're not offering solutions, you're just telling Israel to pretend they're not being attacked by genocidal invaders. (Hamas gets a ton of money and weapons from Iran btw.)

You keep looking at this war as if Palestinians aren't doing anything, you hold them to zero standards. Palestine (including Gaza) was invading and promising to destroy Israel BEFORE the occupation, and Gaza (40% of their population) elected Hamas, wpich promises to destroy Israel and kill every Jew. Palestine keeps losing the wars that they start, and they refuse to stop, they even brainwash their kids to get killed while killing Jews, see the videos in the opening post.

I really want to know if you're saying Israel should just end the occupation tomorrow morning. You think Hamas is being hyperbolic when they promise to kill every Jew, or brainwash their own kids to kill Jews? Maybe you should be talking some sense into Palestine, and this whole "Go kill the Jews" thing. I think that might be a big obstacle to peace, wouldn't you agree?

I don't pretend to have solutions. It's a millenias' old blood feud and the politics of it is HIGHLY irrational. No one outside the situation there has any business interfering. It's as foolish as any central planning endeavor.

The thought experiments and debate are interesting, though.

 

[OReich]

Nope, Palestine should be held to same standard as Israel and the two should be treated equally; arabs=jews should be made a requirement for all parties to accept and none declared more chosen/supremacist than the other when resolving land disputes between them under international law. US tax payers should provide same amount of financial/military aid to Palestine and Israel and anti-semitism towads both Palestinians and Israelis should be frowned upon/rejected. Supporting occupation of Palestinians and Israelis should be made an offense worthy of public ridicule and disgrace. Obama administration should have equal number of arab-semites and jewsish-semites in the White House staff under a same-standards affirimative action policy.

Now that your question has been answered, looking forward to hear your rational answers to below questions in order to get clarification about your views.




If Hamas is so bad, can you explain why Israel created Hamas and detained most secular/Christian Palestinian leaders?

Which was worse for Israel, a strong scecular/Christian led PFLP / PLO or sharia Islamists led Hamas?

Do you believe arabs and jews are equal as races OR one is more chosen than the other? If the latter, which race is more chosen?

Should Iran and Israel be held to same standards and their nuclear programs treated in same way?

If US Christians treated US Jews as Israeli Jews treat Palestinian Christians, would it be fair treatment in your view?

Do you see PFLP/PLO/Irgun as terrorist groups?





It's not a one sided argument.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjEd4hJNVCE

#samestandards

Ron Paul's words aren't gospel. Israel didn't create Hamas, they were allied with the group that became Hamas, and they didn't START that previous group. Paul is simply wrong. Hamas is the Gaza chapter of the Muslim Brotherhood, a massive terrorist group going back to the 1930's in Egypt, they have a million franchises. Before the Gaza chapter became Hamas in 1988, the Muslim Brotherhood was already attacking Israel in order to destroy it, they even sent an army during the 1948 war (promising to kick out every Jew BEFORE Israel stole any land from anyone). During the 1980's, however, Israel worked with the Muslim Brotherhood Gaza chapter because Israel's biggest enemy was the Brotherhood's also: the relatively secular PLO (the PLO's basic laws make Islam the official religion, and explicitly call for Sharia law based on Islam). So, Israel was allied with the Gaza chapter, that became Hamas in 1988. Israel did not start Hamas, Hamas was and is part of the Muslim Brotherhood.


Its nice that you condemn Hamas, Gaza's govt. (funded and armed by Iran), for promising to kill all the Jews (though you refuse to actually say Hamas, you vaguely refer to all hateful groups so you can avoid a fact-based discussion), but your condemnation does nothing for the ppl being targeted by Hamas. When Hamas and the PA agree to two states, there will be two states. So long as Hamas keeps brainwashing their kids to kill all the Jews, Israel will keep stopping them from having a military. In Israel, Muslim women vote, and the govt has pushed for two states for 70+ yrs. In Gaza, they promise to kill all the Jews. Simply pretending that both sides are the same proves that all you're talking about is a fantasy you've made up. Gaza's govt promises to kill all the Jews, and you're complaining that Israel should let them have a full military?

Btw, all your complaints about Christians leaving the Palestinian territories? That's all in Palestinian controlled areas. You (and CBS) keep blaming Israel for how the PLO treats its Christians, its not Israel. Obviously all the WAR affects EVERYONE, so maybe Palestine should be blamed for STARTING every war and trying to destroy the other side. Palestine is the one that executes ppl for criticizing or leaving the state religion, and Hamas (in control of Gaza only, and funded and armed by Iran) burns down churches and promises to kill every Jew. Stop holding Palestinians to lower standards.

Oh and btw, Israel did use human shield until the Supreme Court told them to stop yrs ago, the IDF would force local officials to give them tours so terrorists wouldn't shoot at them. I'm not defending it, but if you're equating that with Palestine's ONGOING human shields, where they use children, schools and apartment building to actually fire rockets, well that's a bit different. Palestinian terrorists don't HAVE to kill IDF soldiers touring the territories, but Israel kindof does have to destroy rocket launchers (and tunnels) firing at Israel, so Palestine is willingly signing their death warrants. Again, you just keep drawing a false equivalency. What Israel was doing wasn't nearly as bad as what Palestine is doing to this day, and Israel STOPPED because their courts forced them to stop, because they're a secular democracy.

No one is arguing that Palestine can't have a state because of the atrocities they've committed, we're simply saying Palestine needs to STOP, stop the attacks, sign a treaty, stop brainwashing kids to kill Jews (see the opening post's videos). Just stop the f'n war. But they won't. I'm fine with a Palestinian state tomorrow morning, they're the ones who are for Sharia law on ALL THE LAND.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Ron Paul's words aren't gospel. Israel didn't create Hamas, they were allied with the group that became Hamas, and they didn't START that previous group. Paul is simply wrong. Hamas is the Gaza chapter of the Muslim Brotherhood, a massive terrorist group going back to the 1930's in Egypt, they have a million franchises. Before the Gaza chapter became Hamas in 1988, the Muslim Brotherhood was already attacking Israel in order to destroy it, they even sent an army during the 1948 war (promising to kick out every Jew BEFORE Israel stole any land from anyone). During the 1980's, however, Israel worked with the Muslim Brotherhood Gaza chapter because Israel's biggest enemy was the Brotherhood's also: the relatively secular PLO (the PLO's basic laws make Islam the official religion, and explicitly call for Sharia law based on Islam). So, Israel was allied with the Gaza chapter, that became Hamas in 1988. Israel did not start Hamas, Hamas was and is part of the Muslim Brotherhood.


Its nice that you condemn Hamas, Gaza's govt, for promising to kill all the Jews (though you refuse to actually say Hamas, you vaguely refer to all hateful groups so you can avoid a fact-based discussion), but your condemnation does nothing for the ppl being targeted by Hamas. When Hamas and the PA agree to two states, there will be two states. So long as Hamas keeps brainwashing their kids to kill all the Jews, Israel will keep stopping them from having a military. In Israel, Muslim women vote, and the govt has pushed for two states for 70+ yrs. In Gaza, they promise to kill all the Jews. Simply pretending that both sides are the same proves that all you're talking about is a fantasy you've made up. Gaza's govt promises to kill all the Jews, and you're complaining that Israel should have a full military?

Btw, all your complaints about Christians leaving the Palestinian territories? That's all in Palestinian controlled areas. You (and CBS) keep blaming Israel for how the PLO treats its Christians, its not Israel. Obviously all the WAR affects EVERYONE, so maybe Palestine should be blamed for STARTING every war and trying to destroy the other side. Palestine is the one that executes ppl for criticizing or leaving the state religion, and Hamas (in control of Gaza only) burns down churches and promises to kill every Jew. Stop holding Palestinians to lower standards.

Oh and btw, Israel did use human shield until the Supreme Court told them to stop yrs ago, the IDF would force local officials to give them tours so terrorists wouldn't shoot at them. I'm not defending it, but if you're equating that with Palestine's ONGOING human shields, where they use children, schools and apartment building to actually fire rockets, well that's a bit different. Palestinian terrorists don't HAVE to kill IDF soldiers touring the territories, but Israel kindof does have to destroy rocket launchers (and tunnels) firing at Israel, so Palestine is willingly signing their death warrants. Again, you just keep drawing a false equivalency. What Israel was doing wasn't nearly as bad as what Palestine is doing to this day, and Israel STOPPED because their courts forced them to stop, because they're a secular democracy.

No one is arguing that Palestine can't have a state because of the atrocities they've committed, we're simply saying Palestine needs to STOP, stop the attacks, sign a treaty, stop brainwashing kids to kill Jews (see the opening post's videos). Just stop the f'n war. But they won't. I'm fine with a Palestinian state tomorrow morning, they're the ones who are for Sharia law on ALL THE LAND.

Comparing Israel and Palestine that way is ridiculous. Israel is a client State of the US and Britain and quite "Anglo-Americanized", so it's to be expected to find material and social "progress" there moreso than impoverished 3rd world places. At the same time, Palestinians are kept in poverty by Western and Western-backed regimes.

ETA: It would be more reasonable to compare a place like Qatar to Israel.

Qatar (/ˈkæˌtɑr/,[SUP][6][/SUP] [SUP]i[/SUP]/ˈkɑːtɑr/, /ˈkɑːtər/ or [SUP]i[/SUP]/kəˈtɑr/;[SUP][7][/SUP] Arabic: قطر‎ Qatar [ˈqɑtˤɑr]; local vernacular pronunciation: [ɡɪtˤɑr]),[SUP][8][/SUP] officially the State of Qatar (Arabic: دولة قطر‎ Dawlaṫ Qatar), is a sovereign Arab country located in Southwest Asia, occupying the small Qatar Peninsula on the northeastern coast of the Arabian Peninsula. Its sole land border is with Saudi Arabia to the south, with the rest of its territory surrounded by the Persian Gulf. A strait in the Persian Gulf separates Qatar from the nearby island kingdom of Bahrain. In 2013, Qatar's total population was 1.8 million; 278,000 Qatari citizens and 1.5 million expatriates.[SUP][9][/SUP]
Following Ottoman rule, Qatar became a British protectorate in the early 20th century until gaining independence in 1971. Qatar has been ruled by the Al Thani family since the mid-19th century. Qatar is an absolute monarchy and its head of state is Emir Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani.[SUP][10][/SUP] After Saudi Arabia, Qatar is the most conservative society in the GCC[SUP][11][/SUP][SUP][12][/SUP] as most Qataris adhere to the strict Wahhabi interpretation of Islam.[SUP][13][/SUP][SUP][14][/SUP][SUP][15][/SUP] Sharia law is the main source of Qatari legislation according to Qatar's Constitution.[SUP][16][/SUP][SUP][17][/SUP]
Qatar is the world's richest country per capita and has the highest human development in the Arab World; furthermore, it is recognized as a high income economy by the World Bank.[SUP][18][/SUP] Qatar has the world's third largest natural gas reserves and oil reserves in excess of 25 billion barrels. Qatar has become an influential player in the Arab world. Qatar supported several rebel groups during the Arab Spring both financially and by asserting global influence through its expanding media group, Al Jazeera Media Network.[SUP][19][/SUP][SUP][20][/SUP][SUP][21][/SUP] Qatar will host the 2022 FIFA World Cup, becoming the first Arab country to host the event.[SUP][22][/SUP]
Although tiny, Qatar wields significant clout. Qatar's rising international profile have led some analysts to identify it as a middle power.[SUP][23][/SUP][SUP][24][/SUP]

Women's rights

Qatar's policies regarding women's rights is influenced by Wahhabism. Nevertheless, Qatar holds a less conservative view of Wahhabism than Saudi Arabia, and consequently there is a relatively less strict separation of genders.[SUP][149][/SUP] As a result of less segregation between sexes, Qatar does not impose a driving ban on women.[SUP][150][/SUP][SUP][151][/SUP] While foreign women may obtain a driver's license, Qatari women must meet a rigorous set of requirements, including obtaining special permission from their relatives, in order to apply for a driver's license.[SUP][151][/SUP]
Qatar enfranchised women at the same time as men in connection with the 1999 elections for a Central Municipal Council.[SUP][47][/SUP][SUP][152][/SUP] These elections—the first ever in Qatar—were deliberately held on 8 March 1999, International Women's Day.[SUP][47][/SUP]

Much more at teh link.http://www.ask.com/wiki/Qatar?lang=en

 

[presence]

In the midst of violent rape, should the rape victim be held to a different standard than the rapist?

 

[OReich]

In the midst of violent rape, should the rape victim be held to a different standard than the rapist?

More silly excuses for holding Palestinians to lower standards. Palestine is the metaphorical rapist here, as they have started every single war, and they (along with Iran and others) invaded Israel and have been trying to destroy it since before Israel took any land from anyone. Not only is Palestine the rapist in your silly metaphor, Palestine is the rapist in real life, rape is legal in Palestine. Wives must have sex with their husbands if ordered too, and girls as young as 12 are forcibly married and raped by creepy old men. The State of Palestine uses its violence to force its own 12 yr old citizens to have sex against their will, Palestine is a pro-rape state. In fact, if any girl wants to complain about criminal rape (adultery, outside of marriage), she has to get a male relative's permission. And, the rapist will be exonerated of the crime if he marries the girl, because many families would rather force the girl to get married than deal with the shame of a rape victim, so instead they make the girl a rape victim FOR LIFE, with the Palestinian state enforcing it.

 

[enhanced_deficit]

The State of Palestine uses its violence to force its own 12 yr old citizens to have sex against their will, Palestine is a pro-rape state.

You have a point. What is remedy, continued occupation and oppression of all Palestinians by Israel freedom machine?

Brooklyn's ultra-Orthodox Jews rally behind accused in child rape
www.theguardian.com › ... › Orthodox sex abuse
The Guardian
May 16, 2012 - In March 2009, Rabbi Israel Weingarten was convicted in Brooklyn's federal court of raping his daughter from age nine to 18. Following a ...

 

[OReich]

You have a point. What is remedy, continued occupation and oppression of all Palestinians by Israel freedom machine?

Brooklyn's ultra-Orthodox Jews rally behind accused in child rape
www.theguardian.com › ... › Orthodox sex abuse
The Guardian
May 16, 2012 - In March 2009, Rabbi Israel Weingarten was convicted in Brooklyn's federal court of raping his daughter from age nine to 18. Following a ...

Lol of course, the State of Palestine forces 12 yr old girls to have sex, it uses its violence to enforce rape, and your response is "How will Israel fix it?" Israel can't fix, Israel can't remedy it, all Israel can do is stop them from taking over Israel and forcing Israelis to have sex against their will. That's what Israel can do. Palestine should stop enforcing rape, in fact they should PROSECUTE ppl who have sex with girls against their will, just like in Israel and the US, as you showed in your irrelevant link. Israel is not occupying Palestine in order to transform them into civilized non-rapists, only Palestine can look inward and confess that its a pro-rape state that needs to stop using its violence to force 12 yr olds to have sex against their will. Israel's occupation is to stop Hamas (which promises to kill every Jew, and is funded and armed by Iran) and the PA from destroying Israel, as they currently promise. Its very simple: Palestinians need to stop attacking Israel, and finally agree to an Israeli peace treaty offer. I know that's hard for you ppl to figure out, since you just HAVE to blame Israel for the passage in the Hadith where Muhammad orders Muslims to kill all the Jews, but in reality Palestine is responsible for their own violent acts, like the state-enforced rape of 12 yr old girls.

So are you ACTUALLY saying Israel should unilaterally end the occupation, and ignore the fact that the govt. of Gaza (funded and armed by Iran) is trying to kill every Jew? You would just let Hamas have a full, Iranian-backed genocidal military? You seem to imply that Israel should allow all that to happen, but I want to hear if its your actual position, quit playing games.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Lol of course, the State of Palestine forces 12 yr old girls to have sex, it uses its violence to enforce rape, and your response is "How will Israel fix it?"

"Palestine" is an inanimate noun. You're going to need documentation of PA policy to prove this very bold claim.

Israel can't fix, Israel can't remedy it, all Israel can do is stop them from taking over Israel and forcing Israelis to have sex against their will. That's what Israel can do. Palestine should stop enforcing rape, in fact they should PROSECUTE ppl who have sex with girls against their will, just like in Israel and the US, as you showed in your irrelevant link. Israel is not occupying Palestine in order to transform them into civilized non-rapists, only Palestine can look inward and confess that its a pro-rape state that needs to stop using its violence to force 12 yr olds to have sex against their will. Israel's occupation is to stop Hamas (which promises to kill every Jew, and is funded and armed by Iran) and the PA from destroying Israel, as they currently promise. Its very simple: Palestinians need to stop attacking Israel, and finally agree to an Israeli peace treaty offer. I know that's hard for you ppl to figure out, since you just HAVE to blame Israel for the passage in the Hadith where Muhammad orders Muslims to kill all the Jews, but in reality Palestine is responsible for their own violent acts, like the state-enforced rape of 12 yr old girls.

Hamas didn't even exist until c. 1988. Before you start accusing people of not understanding, you ought to take the time to understand the basics yourself.

So are you ACTUALLY saying Israel should unilaterally end the occupation, and ignore the fact that the govt. of Gaza (funded and armed by Iran) is trying to kill every Jew? You would just let Hamas have a full, Iranian-backed genocidal military? You seem to imply that Israel should allow all that to happen, but I want to hear if its your actual position, quit playing games.

You're guilty of more than your fair share of game-playing here, brother.

 

[69360]

Maybe if they didn't have their land stolen and weren't held in the largest prison camp in the world, the Palestinians would be a little nicer to the Jews.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Maybe if they didn't have their land stolen and weren't held in the largest prison camp in the world, the Palestinians would be a little nicer to the Jews.

+rep Real Palestinians and Jews get along fine when they aren't being torn apart by politics.
This world-famous orchestra is a mix of Palestinians and Israelis.