Should libertarians consider Chuck Baldwin?

They want to raise tariffs high enough to "protect" American companies (I made no statement on the level of tariffs). But yes, it goes to their purpose. Apparently they look at the lessons of Smoot-Haley and say, "Yeah, the Great Depression was great!" (Yes, I realize Fed policy and other factors certainly played a part.)

Jeepers, get your head out of FDR's butt already (and out of his disciple Friedman's as well)!

Smoot-Hawley did NOT cause the great depression (nor did it have much effect on "deepening" it -- certainly not as much as FDR's confiscation of gold and the subsequent 69% devaluation did).
 
Jeepers, get your head out of FDR's butt already (and out of his disciple Friedman's as well)!

Smoot-Hawley did NOT cause the great depression (nor did it have much effect on "deepening" it -- certainly not as much as FDR's confiscation of gold and the subsequent 69% devaluation did).
Bradley is a Democrat in actuality from what I am gathering, which I believe to be the burgeoining Libertarian Party of today.

Bradley, please correct me if I am wrong. I heard you say that you would vote Nader over Baldwin and have voted Nader in the past. That is Dem/Green imo.

edit-
Not that there is anything wrong with that, I have soft spots for Gravel and Kucinich and Wellstone et al, even though they are/were wayyy off of my own beliefs in many ways.
 
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wha?
No he would obviously vote Barr over Nader, look at the damn avatar. :p

lol. ok. Nader sounds good but his policies implemented would I believe hurt this economy and won't do us any good. Government check EVERY container that enters our ports? I'd like to see him implement this! mwahaha
 
The MSM loves Barr. They don't love Paul or Baldwin. Wonder why ;)

I don't know how you can win without any media coverage. I don't think they love Barr, do you really think so? They keep calling him a "spoiler"

IMO John McCain is the spoiler. He's the drag
 
I don't know how you can win without any media coverage. I don't think they love Barr, do you really think so? They keep calling him a "spoiler"

IMO John McCain is the spoiler. He's the drag

I wouldn't necesarily see the "spoiler" commentary as bad at this point. They cover him because they like him and he is exciting. This will be a great year for candidates outside the two party system. The MSM knows that and wants to be a part of it. They just like to...pick...certain kinds of candidates to buff up. :)
 
I wouldn't necesarily see the "spoiler" commentary as bad at this point. They cover him because they like him and he is exciting. This will be a great year for candidates outside the two party system. The MSM knows that and wants to be a part of it. They just like to...pick...certain kinds of candidates to buff up. :)

I think that is it. It is a deal with the devil IMO.
I hope the LP is up for this, and prepared.
Danger Will Robinson! Danger! :D
 
Bradley is a Democrat in actuality from what I am gathering, which I believe to be the burgeoining Libertarian Party of today.

Bradley, please correct me if I am wrong. I heard you say that you would vote Nader over Baldwin and have voted Nader in the past. That is Dem/Green imo.

edit-
Not that there is anything wrong with that, I have soft spots for Gravel and Kucinich and Wellstone et al, even though they are/were wayyy off of my own beliefs in many ways.

HA!

I am not now nor have I ever been nor considered myself a Democrat. I have never voted for a Democrat for president.

I did vote for Nader, as I have said a few times, but it would not be "over" Baldwin as the CP does not exist here. That said, yes, a vote for Nader would be a stronger vote for the third party movement than Baldwin, for what that is worth.

I'm flattered by all of your personal interest in me. :o
 
Don't take it as a compliment.

HA!

I am not now nor have I ever been nor considered myself a Democrat. I have never voted for a Democrat for president.

I did vote for Nader, as I have said a few times, but it would not be "over" Baldwin as the CP does not exist here. That said, yes, a vote for Nader would be a stronger vote for the third party movement than Baldwin, for what that is worth.

I'm flattered by all of your personal interest in me. :o
Bradley,
if you think I am "picking on you" well, that is up to the eye of the beholder. If you knew me, you might think I have been trying to be as cordial and appeasing as possible. Shall I continue?
 
HA!

I am not now nor have I ever been nor considered myself a Democrat. I have never voted for a Democrat for president.

I did vote for Nader, as I have said a few times, but it would not be "over" Baldwin as the CP does not exist here. That said, yes, a vote for Nader would be a stronger vote for the third party movement than Baldwin, for what that is worth.

I'm flattered by all of your personal interest in me. :o

Nader is left of Democrat Bradley- The Dems call him a "kook" and a "fringer".
-Gospel
 
Bradley is a Democrat in actuality from what I am gathering, which I believe to be the burgeoining Libertarian Party of today.

Bradley, please correct me if I am wrong. I heard you say that you would vote Nader over Baldwin and have voted Nader in the past. That is Dem/Green imo.

edit-
Not that there is anything wrong with that, I have soft spots for Gravel and Kucinich and Wellstone et al, even though they are/were wayyy off of my own beliefs in many ways.

Well, Democrat or whatever... his eyesight (economically speaking) is still encumbered by the intestines of Milton Fraudman, the Neo-Keynsian disciple of FDR -- you know the one who gave us the wonderful gift of paycheck tax-withholding, etc).


P.S. Wellstone, Gravel & Kucinich ARE worthy of some respect as they seem to all be men of upstanding CHARACTER, the fact that they hold idiotic views of certain things is sad (and I would never follow their lead on such things), but agreed that it does not speak to their character. I cannot claim to know Bradley beyond these forums and an occasional PM -- the fact that he lives and breathes the air in "the belly of the beast" of the Beltway does not make one hopeful, but as with the aforementioned, even if his character is sterling does NOT mean that everything or everyone he endorses (or follows) is worthy. (And in this case, Bradley is just spouting economic BS as a means of denigrating and falsely mis-labeling {smearing?} an alternative candidate to the person he has decided to "follow" as his new "savior" -- and I have NO respect for that action at all.)
 
I see Chuck Baldwin as a good candidate. He is going to increase the standing of the Constitution Party. Also, as John McCain continues to alienate the social conservatives within the Republican Party, I see them drift off. The Constitution Party is a fit for them. Considering the fact that the party relies upon religious principles, this part of the Republican Party might stick with the Constitution Party, and Chuck Baldwin is the guy to attract them. And all that is in addition to the base that already exists. I see Ron Paul voters split between Chuck Baldwin and Bob Barr.

It's a good year for the Constitution Party and Libertarian Party.
 
I see Chuck Baldwin as a good candidate. He is going to increase the standing of the Constitution Party. Also, as John McCain continues to alienate the social conservatives within the Republican Party, I see them drift off. The Constitution Party is a fit for them. Considering the fact that the party relies upon religious principles, this part of the Republican Party might stick with the Constitution Party, and Chuck Baldwin is the guy to attract them. And all that is in addition to the base that already exists. I see Ron Paul voters split between Chuck Baldwin and Bob Barr.

It's a good year for the Constitution Party and Libertarian Party.

This is what I am looking at too.

Chuck Baldwin should be an easy "sell" to anyone who called or thinks of themselves as a conservative Republican (especially anyone NOT in love with Bush/McCain):
  • As a conservative and former pastor, he gains almost instant credibility (and at least a "hearing") with them on social issues.
  • Credibility which he can and WILL then USE to educate them AGAINST both "federalizing religion" AND against the dangers of "RELIGIOCRACY" (including trying to "legislate morality")
  • Along the way he can get them to realize how the GOP has "duped" them and used with the whole abortion/conservative-judges thing...
  • And can CREDIBLY bring them BACK to the Christian "Just-War" concept and the MORAL responsibility regarding non-torture, etc. -- and AWAY from the whole fear-mongering Islamo-hatefest.
  • PLUS start making them think about REAL REPUBLIC-an principles of small, limited government again...
  • Promote home-schooling and self-reliance...
  • And maybe bring them whole-hog into the RP way of seeing the current government/economy cartel, and how the Fed & fiat money are abused by the "corporatist government" is an almost fascist manner to generate wars, violate rights, control the population, etc.
  • ...Including all the way to getting RID of the IRS (and replacing it with NOTHING).

By contrast, with BARR -- if anti-McCain "former-Republican" voters can even see beyond the "LIBERTARIAN" label (= "gay, drug-addicted, hippie, anarchist" & most won't/can't see past that caricature, so why try to force it?) ... and for all the work THAT would involve, all they are going to get is:
  • A McCain-minus candidate (as far as personal character goes -- his hypocrisy makes McCain look like a saint -- McCain divorced & married twice; Barr divorced twice and married THRICE + the "coerced" abortion, etc). How does selling a "reprobate" and "hypocrite" as if he is now (somehow) a man of character help then Constitutional cause?
  • The questionable impeachment of Clinton, (they may LIKE him because of that, but where does it take you, really? Democrat & Clinton-hatred? How does that help the Constitutional cause?).
  • A really-CONFUSED mixed-bag on the drug war (is Barr for it or against it? When was he which? And why the flip-flop? Legalize Marijuana? Why? For some wacko-libertarian reason? Again, how does THIS help the Constitutional cause?)
  • ANOTHER confused mixed-bag on social issues (so I thought Libertarians were all for Gay rights -- but didn't this guy WRITE the DOMA? And what's this about him working with the ACLU? Does this guy stand firm on ANYTHING? How does ANY of this help the Constitutional cause?)
  • A full-blown advocate of the falsely called "Fair Tax" and its fallacious promise of ending the IRS (only to be replaced by something MORE insidious and MORE invasive of homes and families and creating HIGHER dependence upon and subjectivity to the Federal government). Which only confuses the issue of taxes, and does NOTHING about reducing government spending, size, or intrusiveness... indeed it would be a windfall for the rich!
  • No one REALLY seems to know where the heck Barr even currently "stands" (waffles?) on the Islamo-hatefest and fear-mongering stuff. And if you don't know this... then you are NOT helping the cause!
  • In short -- I think Barr is going to be impossible to "sell" to anyone OUTSIDE of the LP... and they are going to spend a LOT of time TRYING to sell him WITHIN the LP ranks (once they find out the guy's history -- most will NOT buy, or will feel cheated by the LNC... and will disappear from politics).

Truth is, even were I a died-in-the-wool BIG-"L" Libertarian party man ...I would find it impossible to "sell" Bob Barr without having to leave the room and vomit every 5 or 10 minutes, plus start taking prescription meds to sleep at night... no thanks!

I think what the "pro-Barr" people here are forgetting is that Barr "won" the Libertarian National Convention -- sorta of a coup d'etat -- but all he really did was succeed in "suckering" a few hundred party leaders (< 400 people total) -- but the rank-and-file people, the small "l" libertarians are NOT likely to follow, because they didn't get "wined and dined" in the same way (and the loss of the rank-and-file will doom the LP to the history bin of former 3rd parties).



But... with Chuck Baldwin and the Constitution Party, if we can rally a significant % of the remaining (saner) RP supporters -- and most especially those WITHIN the GOP -- we may be able to quietly "spread" the message about the CONSTITUTION via someone even MORE acceptable (to typical "conservative former-Republican voters") than Ron Paul was... at least to those who can NOT stand McCain (which is a larger number than most people are aware).

End result will be GOOD for the short-term (some votes for Chuck & visibility for the CP) -- and GOOD for the long-term, by rebuilding support for the CONSTITUTION within GOP circles.


Chuck Baldwin is a WIN-WIN for the movement.



And pretty soon (working on it) the "ManOfCommonSense" will be behind Baldwin as well... hopefully that will help a bit. :)
 
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