Should Drunk Driving Be Legal?

[pcosmar]

Also according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration -- THE source of traffic statistics:



Hmmmm. It would appear that the low number of drunk drivers involved in fatal accidents is because of laws and other efforts against impaired driving.



Drunk driving violates the Zero Aggression Principle. Reckless behavior is aggression when it endagers others who have done no harm to the aggressor.

YOU missed something.

http://teamliberty.net/id36.html

NHTSA admits Misinterpretation of Alcohol-Related Traffic
Fatality Statistics by some Data Users

August 17, 2004 In a letter I received on August 15, 2004, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has admitted that the statistics compiled by NHTSA under the heading of alcohol-related traffic fatality are on occasion, being misinterpreted by data users. This wasn't news to me, but still, it's nice to finally get some of my arguments validated. Although NHTSA did try to minimize the frequency of the misinterpretation of their statistics, I am of the belief that once is enough, especially if the misinterpretation becomes misrepresentation to our lawmakers.

I challenged NHTSA to prove that they were not in violation of the Data Quality Act. The Data Quality Act establishes guidelines designed to maximize the quality, objectivity, utility, and integrity of information that federal agencies disseminate to the public.

Responding to my challenge, Susan White, Chief Information Officer for NHTSA offered the following thoughtful comments.

"NHTSA uses the term alcohol-related as a term of art (underline added) in reporting of data for use in the Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS)."

"Alcohol-related is a convenient term (underline added) used to categorize the incidence of alcohol presence from reviewing law enforcement crash reports either from known alcohol test results or from an imputation method when reports fail to contain the necessary data. NHTSA does not collect information to determine the actual cause of the crash or the fatality (underline added)."

Even in plain-English, use of the term related is not translated to mean cause (underline added)."

"In addition, the panel noted that the term alcohol-related is occasionally misinterpreted (underline added) by data users."

"Acknowledging this occasional misinterpretation (underline added), NHTSA plans to take further actions to educate users and clarify NHTSA's use of the term alcohol-related. Among these actions will be the introduction of a new fact sheet in the near future that will detail the roles and BAC levels of those killed in alcohol-related crashes."

"We appreciate your attention to the accuracy of data regarding alcohol-related crashes. We agree that the information of this importance needs to be communicated as clearly as possible (underline added)."

So who are these data users that might be misinterpreting the alcohol-related traffic fatality statistics? They are members of MADD, police departments, highway patrol, and insurance companies, along with some attorneys, politicians, and newspaper editors. What troubles me most about some of these data users is their apparent lack of interest in any statistical evidence that might weaken their chances of convincing lawmakers to pass even harsher DUI laws. Isn't it the primary goal of DUI laws to reduce drunk driving traffic fatalities in the United States? If so, then why is there any need whatsoever to work with questionable, misleading, misinterpreted, or misrepresented statistics? Why are some of these data users angered by the idea that drunk driving might not be responsible for as many deaths as they once thought? What if it were to be discovered that of the approximately 17,500 alcohol-related traffic fatalities reported in 2003, only half actually were caused by a confirmed, legally intoxicated driver?

I can see the headlines now - Drunk Driving Traffic Fatalities Plummet 50% Overnight! Of course on page A-16 between the horoscopes and weather map would be this headline - 1.5 Million People Arrested for DUI in 2003 Demand a Recount!

 

[torchbearer]

all i see are emotional arguments versus logical arguments.

 

[ShowMeLiberty]

YOU missed something.

http://teamliberty.net/id36.html

I don't think so. You're quoting something from 2004 that says some users of the data misinterpreted it. It also implies at the end that 8750 alcohol-related traffic fatalities in a single year (as opposed to 17,500) is somehow acceptable.

The report I quoted was dated May 2008.

 

[phill4paul]

all i see are emotional arguments versus logical arguments.

QFT

A nice website providing links to both pro and con websites.

http://www.dui-web.com/DUIStatistics.htm

 

[pcosmar]

I would suggest a new poll

But I have never created a Poll. Not sure if I should.

Should Civil Liberties be Violated because of the Minority.

Gun laws came into being and the Constitutional Rights Violated because of a very small minority used guns in a crime or in an unsafe manner.

Many millions are subjected to Civil Rights Violations because a very small minority of drivers have accidents after drinking.

Maybe the Freedom of speech should be Violated also, Some people lie and others say stupid things.

 

[ShowMeLiberty]

QFT

A nice website providing links to both pro and con websites.

http://www.dui-web.com/DUIStatistics.htm

Very interesting - thank you.

I clicked http://www.motorists.org/dui/ and read through their tenets and positions. I can agree with the reasonable approach this group proposes.

 

[phill4paul]

Very interesting - thank you.

I clicked http://www.motorists.org/dui/ and read through their tenets and positions. I can agree with the reasonable approach this group proposes.

I too believe that the NMA has a reasonable approach to DUI.

I do not believe in zero-tolerance nor do I believe in no action until property damage or lives are endangered. However, feel good politics over an emotionally driven issue fortified by inflated statistics has created a travesty of justice that has affected the lives of tens of millions of Americans.

 

[mellamojuana]

Drink all you want of anything you want

Please, be my guest and guzzle down all the ethyl alcohol in any brand or strength that you wish. Especially if I'm selling it to you for a laughing-all-the-way-to-the-bank profit. We both win.

Yeehaw!

Don't tell the court, jury, and me, after you killed my daughter and her classmates in a schoolbus accident involving you and your total freedom, that the problem was not you because you had a biological problem. I'm not the attorney, but the mother. Your problem was a self-chosen pharmacological state of reduced ability that you could not overcome by sheer force of will. I cannot force myself not to feel sleepy after taking certain antihistamines.

I strongly suggest you secure the services of true experts in the field of toxicology before you attempt to appease me with flawed logic.

From respect for you and others, I use a cellphone only with an earpiece when I drive. I keep my hands free for driving, and my body, mind, and blood free of drugs, legal, illegal, liquid, prescription, or otherwise. I expect the same respect from every driver on our highways, except the illegals, one of whom killed someone in a drunk driving accident this year only a few miles from where I sit.

Your respect for my daughter came too late. Only my Christian upbringing and my sound mental health will keep me from flattening your nads if you get too close.

 

[brandon]

Please, be my guest and guzzle down all the ethyl alcohol in any brand or strength that you wish. Especially if I'm selling it to you for a laughing-all-the-way-to-the-bank profit. We both win.

Yeehaw!

Don't tell the court, jury, and me, after you killed my daughter and her classmates in a schoolbus accident involving you and your total freedom, that the problem was not you because you had a biological problem. I'm not the attorney, but the mother. Your problem was a self-chosen pharmacological state of reduced ability that you could not overcome by sheer force of will. I cannot force myself not to feel sleepy after taking certain antihistamines.

I strongly suggest you secure the services of true experts in the field of toxicology before you attempt to appease me with flawed logic.

From respect for you and others, I use a cellphone only with an earpiece when I drive. I keep my hands free for driving, and my body, mind, and blood free of drugs, legal, illegal, liquid, prescription, or otherwise. I expect the same respect from every driver on our highways, except the illegals, one of whom killed someone in a drunk driving accident this year only a few miles from where I sit.

Your respect for my daughter came too late. Only my Christian upbringing and my sound mental health will keep me from flattening your nads if you get too close.

And yet another emotional argument in support of DUI laws.

 

[Danke]

Hey Brandon,

You survived once again! How was last night?

 

[Scofield]

I'm going to go buy a rifle, park my car in Times Square, and shoot at my own tires. If I don't hurt anyone, there should be no problem...correct? It's my gun, my propery, and no one was hurt.

That is exactly what you people are trying to tell me when you say "DUI should be legal, if no one is hurt."

Let's see you try to get that kind of legislation passed.

 

[M House]

Wow...yeah um so I don't get why you doubt that woman so much I had people die in my community and even my high school die from drunk driving. Sure but I guess they didn't know how to handle their alcohol like the amazing you and all so you wouldn't see that way. I also asked my friend who lives in California who yeah once again person or two kicked it there during his High School days as well. I mean your mocking MADD and the statistics and all but damn dude, having people die or be harmed needlessly is kinda stupid. O well kinda hard to fight anyone who would look at this remotely from a personal freedom standpoint. Where do you guys live Canada? There are plenty of other people who use the road.

 

[brandon]

Hey Brandon,

You survived once again! How was last night?

hah, it was a good night. Rather uneventful. Had some thanksgiving leftovers and about 6 beers with some friends. Then I drove home and went to sleep.

 

[Scofield]

There is a personal benefit with Liberty, there is no personal benefit for driving drunk.

Sure, you can get yourself home, but you can do the same thing by calling a cab or having your friend drive you. If you can't do any of those, sleep in your car overnight and drive home in the morning.

All driving drunk does is put individuals in harm's way. Why in the blue hell would we make anything like that, legal?

 

[brandon]

Wow...yeah um so I don't get why you doubt that woman so much I had people die in my community and even my high school die from drunk driving.

That's funny, because I had people in my highschool and my community die from sober driving. This is why I think we need to ban sober driving.

 

[ladyjade3]

Reckless driving is what we should pay attention to. You can be just as dangerous driving while sleepy, or driving while senile, or distracted.

 

[danberkeley]

I'm going to go buy a rifle, park my car in Times Square, and shoot at my own tires. If I don't hurt anyone, there should be no problem...correct? It's my gun, my propery, and no one was hurt.

That is exactly what you people are trying to tell me when you say "DUI should be legal, if no one is hurt."

Let's see you try to get that kind of legislation passed.

As long as it is okay with the owner and not violating anyone else's rights. And no, the government is not a legimate owner of streets and sidewalks.

That's funny, because I had people in my highschool and my community die from sober driving. This is why I think we need to ban sober driving.

QTF!

Reckless driving is what we should pay attention to. You can be just as dangerous driving while sleepy, or driving while senile, or distracted.

Or while getting a BJ.

 

[Scofield]

As long as it is okay with the owner and not violating anyone else's rights. And no, the government is not a legimate owner of streets and sidewalks.

The tax-payer's own the public highways, and since I am a tax-payer, I do not want anyone drinking and driving on "my" roads. Therefore, it is up to me (and society) to determine the legality of drinking and driving on "our" roads, and thankfully the vast majority of us are against it.

I will say that I think the law/punishment should be left to the individual States, as it is a 10th Amendment issue.

 

[M House]

Please after seeing these responses you just don't wanna a general set of harsh penalties across the board. You know it won't stop them so if they get caught they could u know actually be prevented from having the chance to do the same stupid shit again.

 

[brandon]

The tax-payer's own the public highways, and since I am a tax-payer, I do not want anyone drinking and driving on "my" roads. Therefore, it is up to me (and society) to determine the legality of drinking and driving on "our" roads, and thankfully the vast majority of us are against it.

I will say that I think the law/punishment should be left to the individual States, as it is a 10th Amendment issue.

Do you realize that your DUI laws destroy families and lives, while not even being a successful deterrent against driving drunk?

My girlfriends mom recently got arrested for her 3rd DUI. She is a single mom and still has a 15 year old kid at living home. She is going to have to serve several months in jail for her DUI. Meanwhile, her son will be forced to move and she will be forced to sell her home because she can't make mortgage payments in jail.

Oh yea, and she never got in an accident.