Should Cockfighting Be Legal?

Would you like to see your state legalize cockfighting?

  • Yes

    Votes: 78 58.6%
  • No

    Votes: 55 41.4%

  • Total voters
    133
if animals are not property anymore, we would then be forced to be vegetarians because animals have rights and those rights can not be taken away.

Would this be a bad thing? Humans, created with very long intestines, were designed for fruits and vegetables which take much longer to digest than meat. We were given hands to pick fruit off of a tree. Dogs/cats, however, have very short intestines; they cannot fully digest vegetables/fruit, but can fully digest meat. So, it's not that humans need meat to survive (we were not created to be meat-eaters), but rather that it's a choice of diet.

For meat lovers, I'd bet it wouldn't be long before stem cells were growing chicken legs, etc.... The food thing will take time, but it provides hope to see society move in the direction to find alternatives to killing animals for meat. In the mean time, at the very least, putting down an animal for its meat should be done as painless as possible. Factory farms should be eliminated imho. Hunting deer with a gun can cause immediate death w/o alot of pain; however bow-and-arrow hunting should be outlawed. etc. etc.

But we're not even talking about food here: this cockfighting is done for "entertainment" and "betting". This is sick and pathetic and immoral. And it should be outlawed.
 
Would this be a bad thing? Humans, created with very long intestines, were designed for fruits and vegetables which take much longer to digest than meat. We were given hands to pick fruit off of a tree. Dogs/cats, however, have very short intestines; they cannot fully digest vegetables/fruit, but can fully digest meat. So, it's not that humans need meat to survive (we were not created to be meat-eaters), but rather that it's a choice of diet.

For meat lovers, I'd bet it wouldn't be long before stem cells were growing chicken legs, etc.... The food thing will take time, but it provides hope to see society move in the direction to find alternatives to killing animals for meat. In the mean time, at the very least, putting down an animal for its meat should be done as painless as possible. Factory farms should be eliminated imho. Hunting deer with a gun can cause immediate death w/o alot of pain; however bow-and-arrow hunting should be outlawed. etc. etc.

But we're not even talking about food here: this cockfighting is done for "entertainment" and "betting". This is sick and pathetic and immoral. And it should be outlawed.

Humans are omnivores. Always have been, always will be. It's why we have traits of both. Canines, incissors, a body that needs high amounts of protein, bacteria in the stomach made for breaking down meat, etc (Note: don't you think it is odd how our stomachs cannot break down many types of fruits and vegetables, but have no problem with meat? Corn, Peanuts, Olives, Jalapenos, etc.). That is all besides the point in the first place. For someone who loves animals you sure would be condemning to extermination every predator on the planet. How come predators do not have a right to liberty? What about plants? Plants are alive. Like I said, rights and liberty are a human construct. One must first be able to have discourse in order to logically deduce the a priorism of natural rights. Again, as another poster brought up, rights are intraspecies. That is the nature of the beast. You can fight against nature all you like, but nature is more powerful than anything. I am just glad that humans have reason and logic, which animals do not possess (I am willing to debate any other animal in economics and philosophy...).
 
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Personally, for people who need to eat meat, there should be ongoing stem cell research to make chicken legs, etc., so someday (hopefully) animals will no longer have to die for this.

Not a good idea.

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Would this be a bad thing? Humans, created with very long intestines, were designed for fruits and vegetables which take much longer to digest than meat. We were given hands to pick fruit off of a tree. Dogs/cats, however, have very short intestines; they cannot fully digest vegetables/fruit, but can fully digest meat. So, it's not that humans need meat to survive (we were not created to be meat-eaters), but rather that it's a choice of diet..

I take from your frequent use of the word Created, and Designed that you support the idea of biblical creation. If that is the case, then God certainly did intend for us to be meat eaters, even going so far as to dictate the proper way to prepare our meat.

If on the other hand, you are an evolutionist despite your word usage, you have to recognize that factoring all our bodies systems together, we are not evolved as exclusive carnivores, like cats, nor as exclusive herbivores like cattle, but rather as Omnivores like a bear. Our intestines are long enough to digest some juicy fruits and vegetables, but not long enough to digest nor chambered enough for dry grains and fibrous veggies. Our teeth have the canines and pointed molars to tear meat, but also flattened molars and wide incisors for cutting and grinding vegetables. While fruits are certainly the most ideal thing for our intestines, it can cause trouble if that's all we ate because our metabolism is prone to diabetes if given too much fruit, and that factor is even more extreme in high latitude genetic phenotypes such as Siberians, and Inuits who have been diverging from the main human line to become even more dependent on a meat diet, while conversely, Mediterranean people with a long history of agriculture and a good growing climate have been diverging toward being less dependent on meat. If you are the type of person who sits behind a desk all day, with low calorie, and low cholestoral, and low protein needs, you'll probably do okay as a vegetarian, but if you are active and have high physical demands as our primitive ancestors were, and some of us are today, you will not get your nutritional needs through a vegetarian diet unless you take laboratory produced supplements which tend to have lots of other nasty things in them that cause digestive problems like Crohn's disease.

Hunting deer with a gun can cause immediate death w/o alot of pain; however bow-and-arrow hunting should be outlawed. etc. etc..

Getting back to the origin side of things. Hunting is a task that evokes connections with God and Spirituality and the more primitive your methods, the more that connection is enhanced because of the skill required to perform the task. From a biological perspective, why is a heart shot from a bow and arrow immoral, but being gutted by a cougar not immoral. Prey species, regardless of what they are, have no expectation of a quick or painless death, and the sudden death from a distance might actually cause natural selection pressure to make the species less able of dealing with coyotes, wolves, cougars, bears, and other predators. A bowhunter having to approach the animal closer will behave more like a natural predator, and keep the herd fit. You want to outlaw things based on emotional arguments that are not based on logic, natural history, biblical scripture, or normal interspecieal behavior.
 
Humans are omnivores. Always have been, always will be.

But you can eat animal products (ie. milk, eggs, etc.) without killing a live animal. In addition to many other plant foods, those animal products can give you the protein required. There are many who are vegan and perfectly healthy. Meat is a choice, not a requirement.

For someone who loves animals you sure would be condemning to extermination every predator on the planet.

I am only talking about human interaction with animals. The most important point is the cockfighting is not done for the purpose of food- it's done for the purpose of "entertainment" for a very sick, perverted, depraved, pathetic sub-population in our country. It involves torture which is not required for food or survival.

What about plants? Plants are alive.

Plants don't have a brain and they don't feel pain. There is no consciousness there. But life-forms such as dogs surely have consciousness and reason and logic. Life-forms such as dolphins and whales have larger brains than humans- and every bit, if not more, reason and logic. To establish a harmful force against any of these life-forms is wrong and immoral just as it is wrong and immoral to do so against a human.
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Our intestines are long enough to digest some juicy fruits and vegetables, but not long enough to digest nor chambered enough for dry grains and fibrous veggies. Our teeth have the canines and pointed molars to tear meat, but also flattened molars and wide incisors for cutting and grinding vegetables. While fruits are certainly the most ideal thing for our intestines, it can cause trouble if that's all we ate because our metabolism is prone to diabetes if given too much fruit, and that factor is even more extreme in high latitude genetic phenotypes such as Siberians, and Inuits who have been diverging from the main human line to become even more dependent on a meat diet, while conversely, Mediterranean people with a long history of agriculture and a good growing climate have been diverging toward being less dependent on meat. If you are the type of person who sits behind a desk all day, with low calorie, and low cholestoral, and low protein needs, you'll probably do okay as a vegetarian, but if you are active and have high physical demands as our primitive ancestors were, and some of us are today, you will not get your nutritional needs through a vegetarian diet unless you take laboratory produced supplements which tend to have lots of other nasty things in them that cause digestive problems like Crohn's disease.

yes, we are able to eat both. But is it required? I would argue that in many cases it is not. Take, for example, my cousin who has been vegan for 20 years. She literally plays tennis 8 to 10 hours everyday and has been in the nationals for her age group many years. She doesn't have an ounce of fat on her and is pure muscle. Yet she eats no meat. She has no health problems whatsoever. She does, however, drink milk, eat eggs, etc., ie. animal products.


Getting back to the origin side of things. Hunting is a task that evokes connections with God and Spirituality and the more primitive your methods, the more that connection is enhanced because of the skill required to perform the task.
As long as an animal is put down quickly and doesn't languish in pain for extended periods, it's not an issue.

However, food is just one part of the animal question. Cockfighting is not being done for human food or survival: it's being done for entertainment. And that is sick, perverted, pathetic and unnecessary.
 
Animals have no rights. They are property.

You can defend your own property. As far as others abusing their own animals all we can do is ostracize them.
 
Animals have no rights. They are property.

You can defend your own property. As far as others abusing their own animals all we can do is ostracize them.


Animals are life-forms- not property. You have no more right to torture a dog than you do to torture your wife. The fact that the laws allow this doesn't mean it's right. (The law allows soldiers to murder innocent iraqi's: that doesn't make it right.)

It's just a shame laws are needed for what should be obvious (just as it was a shame laws were needed to stop discrimination and slavery) but i applaud these legal efforts to ensure all life-forms the right not to be unnecessarily harmed by force:

Animal Legal Defense Fund:

 
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Until an animal can claim, understand, and put forth the idea of self-ownership and that its rights derive from these principles, I won't even begin to entertain the idea that animals have rights.

That said, I don't like animal cruelty in the slightest.
 
yes, we are able to eat both. But is it required? I would argue that in many cases it is not. Take, for example, my cousin who has been vegan for 20 years. She literally plays tennis 8 to 10 hours everyday and has been in the nationals for her age group many years. She doesn't have an ounce of fat on her and is pure muscle. Yet she eats no meat. She has no health problems whatsoever. She does, however, drink milk, eat eggs, etc., ie. animal products.

She also doesn't produce sperm which is almost 100% protein.
 
How is this poll almost 50/50? This is a clear cut issue from a liberty standpoint. People should be able to do whatever they want so long as their actions are not an initiation of force on somebody else.
 
How is this poll almost 50/50? This is a clear cut issue from a liberty standpoint. People should be able to do whatever they want so long as their actions are not an initiation of force on somebody else.

We still have a lot of Pet issue statists on this forum. For example, in another active thread, Axis Mundi is a marriage statist who would rather have government control marriage than allow a free market based union take place.

Here, Charrob is an animal rights statist that would rather outlaw things she disagrees with and put them underground than allow them to be legal and as a legal activity, participants would be less likely to hide their participation and you could more easily boycott them and exert economic influence on their actions rather than use another morally repugnant act of government force.
 
How is this poll almost 50/50? This is a clear cut issue from a liberty standpoint. People should be able to do whatever they want so long as their actions are not an initiation of force on somebody else on another life-form.

fixed it for ya.
 
People have no rights either.

Interesting. And closer to the truth than many of the posts in this thread.

Yup. Rights are just ideas in our heads.

Personally, I find cruelty towards animals to be repugnant for many of the same reasons that I find cruelty towards humans to be repugnant. If I personally see someone mistreating an animal, I feel obligated to intervene, and have done so in the past.

Do I think things like cockfighting and dogfighting should be illegal? No, I don't... I don't even think it should be illegal for humans to fight to the death gladiator style, if they want.

However, I would like to see, and would be very likely to actively support social ostracism towards people who engage in and promote cruel and unusual forms of abuse towards animals.
 
How is this poll almost 50/50? This is a clear cut issue from a liberty standpoint. People should be able to do whatever they want so long as their actions are not an initiation of force on somebody else.

Heres what you are missing, that somebody else can also be say a chimanzee or a dog. Why does it just have to be a human. As I posted earlier

"What you are missing is that a mosquito feels far less pain then a dog.

He originally stated that it had to do with animal size. I think what he meant was

insect>non mammal animal (possible exceptions)>mammal>primates

This is general would have to do with intelligence and ability to feel pain.

I agree in this sense. This is why there are stricter rules at say a College University when putting down a dog verses a fish.

I do think animals have some natural rights. Its just a concept anyways right? Humans having natural rights is just a concept. A concept that can quickly be taken away when a big bully steps up and imprisons you or kills you. I would argue that in the case of torturing a dog you are the one acting like the bully in my example. Now is dog fighting torturing? It would seem like the dog is doing it of it's own free will to some degree. Thats tough.

I think a mammal and many other animals should have the right to not be tortured for human pleasure.

An exception might be an ant who does not feel pain like a mammal and in addition if an ant is in your home whether intentional or not it is invading your property especially if it is crawling on you. I would squash a bug in my home but not if I was on a walk. However I think making it illegal to squash a bug outside your home (with no real purpose) is a little far fetched but I'm not sure I would have a problem with it.


Is it wrong to imagine creatures as having a right to their life as long as it doesn't need to be taken for a valid human purpose (like food or the animal is causing a problem)?"
 
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