Should Classic Rock Songs Be Toppled Like Confederate Statues? "American Pie" first to go

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Should Classic Rock Songs Be Toppled Like Confederate Statues? "American Pie" first to go

Should Classic Rock Songs Be Toppled Like Confederate Statues?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/03/opinion/music-pop-culture-justice.html

Nov. 3, 2021

By Jennifer Finney Boylan

Contributing Opinion Writer

A long, long time ago — I can still remember how that music used to make me smile.

“American Pie,” Don McLean’s generation-defining ballad, was released on vinyl 50 years ago this October. The first time I ever heard it, I was with my sister in our kitchen. I was 13. I was eating a bowl of Alpha-Bits cereal. It came on the radio, and my sister — only a year older but centuries cooler — told me, “This is the greatest song ever.”

It’s impossible for me to hear that song now without thinking of her.

But when Patrisha McLean, Don McLean’s ex-wife, hears “American Pie,” she isn’t reminded of golden moments of adolescence or even the classic age of rock ’n’ roll memorialized by the song. Ms. McLean says she was subjected to years of emotional and physical abuse from her former husband.

Ms. McLean was married to her husband for 29 years before the night five years ago that she made a 911 call. In the aftermath, Mr. McLean was arrested on suspicion of domestic violence. He was charged with six misdemeanors; he pleaded guilty to four as part of a plea agreement in which the domestic violence charge would be dismissed after a year. For the other three charges — criminal restraint, criminal mischief and making domestic violence threats — he paid some $3,000 in fines.

Since then, Ms. McLean founded Finding Our Voices, a Maine-based nonprofit dedicated to educating people about domestic abuse and providing services for victims. Meanwhile, Mr. McLean was honored in August with a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. He denies having ever assaulted his wife, and his lawyer has said that he pleaded guilty “not because he was in fact guilty of anything but to provide closure for his family and keep the whole process as private as possible.” His iconic song still plays on the radio.

The past several years have seen a reassessment of our country’s many mythologies — from the legends of the generals of the Confederacy to the historical glossing over of slaveholding founding fathers. But as we take another look at the sins of our historical figures, we’ve also had to take a hard look at our more immediate past and present, including the behavior of the creators of pop culture. That reassessment extends now to the people who wrote some of our best-loved songs. But what to do with the art left behind? Can I still love their music if I’m appalled by various events in the lives of Johnny Cash or Elvis or Jerry Lee Lewis? Or by Eric Clapton’s racist rants and anti-vaccination activism?

Of course, there is no easy answer here. Even Ms. McLean doesn’t think “American Pie” should be banned from playlists, like some other pieces of classic rock produced by disgraced musicians. Gary Glitter’s “Rock and Roll (Part 2),” more popularly known as “The Hey Song,” for instance, was pulled from airplay after the musician was convicted of possession of child pornography and a series of sex abuse offenses against young girls.

Instead, Ms. McLean told me, she feels we should reconsider how we elevate these artists. It’s the tarnished creators, she said, that we should not celebrate. In other words: The problem with “American Pie” isn’t the song. It’s the singer. “American Pie” remains a great song. In 2016 the Library of Congress selected the original recording for preservation in the National Recording Registry.

Indeed, it would almost be easier if it were just the song. The Rolling Stones quietly removed “Brown Sugar” from their current U.S. tour set list. The track’s racist lyrics, which refer to slave ships and rape, have been controversial since the song was first a hit in 1971 — the same year as “American Pie.” And yet the guitarist Keith Richards, when asked about the removal, seemed a little uneasy with the decision: “I’m trying to figure out with the sisters quite where the beef is. Didn’t they understand this was a song about the horrors of slavery?”

There are a lot of things I revere about “Brown Sugar,” and Mr. Richards’s guitar riffs not least. But I can tell you that in 50 years, it has not once occurred to me that this song might even remotely be about the empowerment of Black women. If the Stones don’t know why the song has to go, does simply removing it from their tour sheet go far enough?

For a lot of baby boomers, it’s painful to realize that some of the songs first lodged in our memories in adolescence really need a second look. And it’s hard to explain why younger versions of ourselves ever thought they were OK in the first place.

I want to live in a world where I can be moved by art and music and literature without having to come up with elaborate apologies for that work or for its creators.

But does such a world exist? It is hard to think of some of our greatest artists without also thinking of their messy, sometimes destructive lives. In so many cases, it’s the very chaos of those lives that has helped create the art. It’s easy to romanticize that chaos and to ignore the wreckage artists can leave in their wakes.

It was Don McLean, in “American Pie,” who asked if music can save our mortal souls. My guess is probably not. But it can help us to time travel, and not only to our adolescent past. Maybe reconsidering those songs, and their artists, can inspire us to think about the future and how to bring about a world that is more inclusive and more just.
 
For a lot of baby boomers, it’s painful to realize that some of the songs first lodged in our memories in adolescence really need a second look. And it’s hard to explain why younger versions of ourselves ever thought they were OK in the first place.

Good grief!

Take your self loathing and fuck off.
 
For a lot of baby boomers, it’s painful to realize that some of the songs first lodged in our memories in adolescence really need a second look. And it’s hard to explain why younger versions of ourselves ever thought they were OK in the first place.

Of course the little trans queeer snowflake has got nothing to say about shit like this: one of the top raps of 2021.



Armageddon

Dave from the Grave

You know, when I leave this earth it might be Doomsday
Bitch


Uh
Rest in piss cause his piss where he rest in
I won't answer don't ask me no questions
I thank got everyday for these blessing's
And I'm trying not to talk to the Devil
He told me not to talk to The Reverend
Bitch I put my arm in it, get in
And I turned this shit to Armageddon


Better watch how you talk to a veteran
I'm a felon, I can't go on Ellen
I got murder all over my mind
Got a young nigga feelin' like Melvin
And he think he gon' murk me
Get hit with this thirty
I'm talkin 'bout Curry, no Stephen
Bitch I'm talkin' bout curry, no chefin'
He act dumb I'ma teach 'em a lesson
I need every truck armed that I get in
They gon' sound them alarms when I get in
Send some holes in them all
We ain't Like 'em at all
So he's right in the mall where we left 'em
Yea I just married the money
But I still had the streets at my wedding
Cause I married the streets at 11
We got married at 7-Eleven
Lil mama said "Dave you the shit"
I said shut yo' mouth bitch, who the fuck is you tellin'?
You a snitch, you get stitches for tellin'
And I don't give a fuck who you tellin'
And I don't give a fuck what you sellin'
I'm the shit, I think that's what I'm smellin'
And they said that who smelled it they dealt it
I'm a problem and I can't be dealt with
Bitch

Rest in piss cause his piss where he rest in
I won't answer don't ask me no questions
I thank got everyday for these blessing's
And I'm trying not to talk to the Devil
He told me not to talk to The Reverend
Bitch I put my arm in it, get in
And I turned this shit to Armageddon


Put your hands in the air like you're stretchin'
Life's a gamble so bitch what you bettin'?
Lord forgive me, I took that boy blessing's
I ain't crying' about it, I'm venting
I ain't lying, I swear I ain't flexing
Moving weight, hundred pounds what I'm benching
All this gas in my lungs got me belching
I'm about to go dumber than Welvin
Put my golds in my mouth when I fucked her
She said, "I can't believe its not butter"
Bro, you let that bitch come inside of the trap?
Bro, I can't believe you ain't fuckin'
I feel like Hugh Hef' with the rubber
I feel like James Bond under covers
I feel like KD with the jumper
You would think that I played for the Thunder
You know I'm a Thug with the Gunna
I ran down on that boy, he a runner
Easy lick; He was sweet, he a sucker
He ain't no fighter, he really a lover
I'm the word on the street
I'm the word on the beat
I'm the word, and that's word to my mother
You bet' not say a word to my mother
Or I pop out, like Danny with Glover's
Bitch

Rest in piss cause his piss where he rest in
I won't answer don't ask me no questions
I thank got everyday for these blessing's
And I'm trying not to talk to the Devil
He told me not to talk to The Reverend
Bitch I put my arm in it, get in
And I turned this shit to Armageddon

Rest in piss cause his piss where he rest in
I won't answer don't ask me no questions
I thank got everyday for these blessing's
And I'm trying not to talk to the Devil
He told me not to talk to The Reverend
Bitch I put my arm in it, get in
And I turned this shit to Armageddon
 
Ms. McLean was married to her husband for 29 years before the night five years ago that she made a 911 call.

If you don't like the situation you're in, you leave & get a divorce. You don't call fucking 911 to press charges on your husband.

A woman who does that deserves to get the shit beaten out of her.
 
I want to live in a world where I can be moved by art and music and literature without having to come up with elaborate apologies for that work or for its creators.

You can, you miserable twat. You can just turn the fucking radio off when the song comes on.

Fucking control freaks...

ETA: You know what? This is Earth, and it's populated by fallible human beings - there is no perfect here. EVERYONE has failed in one way or another, including you.

This inclination to purge everything that isn't flawless is a road to horrors - real, unimaginable horrors.
 
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Of course the little trans queeer snowflake has got nothing to say about $#@! like this: one of the top raps of 2021.



Armageddon

Dave from the Grave

You know, when I leave this earth it might be Doomsday
Bitch


Uh
Rest in piss cause his piss where he rest in
I won't answer don't ask me no questions
I thank got everyday for these blessing's
And I'm trying not to talk to the Devil
He told me not to talk to The Reverend
Bitch I put my arm in it, get in
And I turned this $#@! to Armageddon


Better watch how you talk to a veteran
I'm a felon, I can't go on Ellen
I got murder all over my mind
Got a young nigga feelin' like Melvin
And he think he gon' murk me
Get hit with this thirty
I'm talkin 'bout Curry, no Stephen
Bitch I'm talkin' bout curry, no chefin'
He act dumb I'ma teach 'em a lesson
I need every truck armed that I get in
They gon' sound them alarms when I get in
Send some holes in them all
We ain't Like 'em at all
So he's right in the mall where we left 'em
Yea I just married the money
But I still had the streets at my wedding
Cause I married the streets at 11
We got married at 7-Eleven
Lil mama said "Dave you the $#@!"
I said shut yo' mouth bitch, who the $#@! is you tellin'?
You a snitch, you get stitches for tellin'
And I don't give a $#@! who you tellin'
And I don't give a $#@! what you sellin'
I'm the $#@!, I think that's what I'm smellin'
And they said that who smelled it they dealt it
I'm a problem and I can't be dealt with
Bitch

Rest in piss cause his piss where he rest in
I won't answer don't ask me no questions
I thank got everyday for these blessing's
And I'm trying not to talk to the Devil
He told me not to talk to The Reverend
Bitch I put my arm in it, get in
And I turned this $#@! to Armageddon


Put your hands in the air like you're stretchin'
Life's a gamble so bitch what you bettin'?
Lord forgive me, I took that boy blessing's
I ain't crying' about it, I'm venting
I ain't lying, I swear I ain't flexing
Moving weight, hundred pounds what I'm benching
All this gas in my lungs got me belching
I'm about to go dumber than Welvin
Put my golds in my mouth when I $#@!ed her
She said, "I can't believe its not butter"
Bro, you let that bitch come inside of the trap?
Bro, I can't believe you ain't $#@!in'
I feel like Hugh Hef' with the rubber
I feel like James Bond under covers
I feel like KD with the jumper
You would think that I played for the Thunder
You know I'm a Thug with the Gunna
I ran down on that boy, he a runner
Easy lick; He was sweet, he a sucker
He ain't no fighter, he really a lover
I'm the word on the street
I'm the word on the beat
I'm the word, and that's word to my mother
You bet' not say a word to my mother
Or I pop out, like Danny with Glover's
Bitch

Rest in piss cause his piss where he rest in
I won't answer don't ask me no questions
I thank got everyday for these blessing's
And I'm trying not to talk to the Devil
He told me not to talk to The Reverend
Bitch I put my arm in it, get in
And I turned this $#@! to Armageddon

Rest in piss cause his piss where he rest in
I won't answer don't ask me no questions
I thank got everyday for these blessing's
And I'm trying not to talk to the Devil
He told me not to talk to The Reverend
Bitch I put my arm in it, get in
And I turned this $#@! to Armageddon


This is incoherent, gibberish garbage, and frankly more evidence of the collapse of civil society. But I don't want it "banned". I just don't listen to it. I don't understand what's so hard about that - if you don't like something, JUST DON'T FUCKING LISTEN TO IT.
 
Been listening to it all my life. I could care less what happens to these millionaires and some billionaires knowing quite a few of these artists are just stooges for the elites and do their bidding. Many hand picked for continued fame and are almost like family with many of the elites they party with. Bring on independent of the club new rock. I really had enough of the establishment's Classic Rock at this point anyway.

Life would be far better if people got their music from those in their and surrounding communities. Instead of a handful of hand picked friends of the elites whose few songs are beaten to death for almost 50 years. Think about all the joy that would bring to local artists, the communities they live in and a local connection to the music.
 
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Instead, Ms. McLean told me, she feels we should reconsider how we elevate these artists. It’s the tarnished creators, she said, that we should not celebrate.

Hold on, is she saying that the people that are elevated by fame are not perfect people? Wow, that's a revelation! :rolleyes: :sarcasm: :bigpoo:

There are a lot of things I revere about “Brown Sugar,” and Mr. Richards’s guitar riffs not least. But I can tell you that in 50 years, it has not once occurred to me that this song might even remotely be about the empowerment of Black women. If the Stones don’t know why the song has to go, does simply removing it from their tour sheet go far enough?

No, that would not be enough, the next phases will include cancellation, asset forfeiture, re-education camp, and essential elimination.
 
Hold on, is she saying that the people that are elevated by fame are not perfect people? Wow, that's a revelation! :rolleyes: :sarcasm: :bigpoo:

No, that would not be enough, the next phases will include cancellation, asset forfeiture, re-education camp, and essential elimination.

The bright side is many people would not accept listening to only government approved inner city music. The people will look for local underground anti-government and anti-establishment musicians with a message against those who took away their music. Certainly a way to fire people up against the government-establishment. The only problem is that the elites would probably have that covered to with their own anti-establishment controlled opposition musicians.
 
The bright side is many people would not accept listening to only government approved inner city music. The people will look for local underground anti-government and anti-establishment musicians with a message against those who took away their music. Certainly a way to fire people up against the government-establishment. The only problem is that the elites would probably have that covered to with their own anti-establishment controlled opposition musicians.

Pretty sure they are already doing that. They have huge record deals and are featured every year on the Grammys.
 
Been listening to it all my life. I could care less what happens to these millionaires and some billionaires knowing quite a few of these artists are just stooges for the elites and do their bidding. Many hand picked for continued fame and are almost like family with many of the elites they party with. Bring on independent of the club new rock. I really had enough of the establishment's Classic Rock at this point anyway.

Life would be far better if people got their music from those in their and surrounding communities. Instead of a handful of hand picked friends of the elites whose few songs are beaten to death for almost 50 years. Think about all the joy that would bring to local artists, the communities they live in and a local connection to the music.

Because of your obsessive anti elitism, you miss the point entirely.

This has nothing to do with the music, the recording industry or it's elitism.

This is just yet another front on the war of Marxist revolution.

For all the warts and faults, this music is known and loved by tens of millions of people, for good reason, a lot of it is exceptional, some of the best ever recorded.

That is why it must be smashed.

The Old Order must be destroyed.

Everything goes into the Marxist wood chipper.

No past, no future...just a continual present, with a government boot, smashing your face, forever.
 
They tried that shit with Skynyrd and it just made them more popular.
 
Down with Stevie Ray Vaughn! A white patriarchal shit lord that appropriated Afro-Centric roots music!

Lolololol.
 
F the new "Skynyrd"... The old band was fantastic. The cover band using their name sucks ass.

When they were firing on all cylinders, Skynyrd was a band, to quote the late, great Donald "Duck" Dunn, powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.



That "Wall Of Horns" and Billy Powell, pounding that piano like it owed him money, at 3:25, sends chills up my spine to this day.

If you ain't at least tapping your feet at that point, you're dead.
 
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Because of your obsessive anti elitism, you miss the point entirely.

This has nothing to do with the music, the recording industry or it's elitism.

This is just yet another front on the war of Marxist revolution.

For all the warts and faults, this music is known and loved by tens of millions of people, for good reason, a lot of it is exceptional, some of the best ever recorded.

That is why it must be smashed.

The Old Order must be destroyed.

Everything goes into the Marxist wood chipper.

No past, no future...just a continual present, with a government boot, smashing your face, forever.

I did not miss the point and totally get that. It is just that when I look really closely at it, we all got played. We tend to have rose colored glasses about the past due to life long conditioning. We listened to and enjoyed Progressive rockers with close ties to the elites. People that stand against many of the things we believe and support politicians we hate. Those are the facts.

At one time they called it Progressive Rock since it was closely associated with Progressive ideology and in later years then called Classic Rock. We all live in somewhat our own illusion so we can enjoy life and memory holed that fact to live our illusion. Now we are supposed to get all teary eyed because the people that helped get us to where we are now might be taken down a peg. I don't think so.

This is from a fan that spent most of my life listening to all forms of rock for hours a day and attending concerts. So this is not like I hate the genre and are rather a lifelong fan. I like sitting around a fire to, I just don't put my hand in it and ruin my life. People took the art form to a whole new level and part of that is due to how it was marketed that way at one time.

For example the genre brought an entire generation to buy into the immorality of sex, drugs and rock'n roll. Look at the destruction of white communities due to the drug problem and broken families. Granted people should not have been so weak and simply enjoyed it without changing their life to reflect a slogan as part of the art form.

So I am not going to get all teary eyed if someone attacks it. Maybe, just maybe, it will wake people up to a new form of rock from people that actually believe in the liberty of others and not push heroin use as a cool virtue.

Telling the truth about why things are the way they are and are not going to change until people wake up is not obsessive. Years ago I would never have said that to you since you got it. Some where along the line you jumped on the game one up news cycle bandwagon to live that false illusion here. That is a dead end and the only benefit is Ad dollars and establishment party building. Nothing will ever change if people continue down that path of getting played, to not look long term, identify the enemy and their propaganda methods. That means waking up to our own illusions at times including our pleasures like how we looked the other way on this genre.

If Marxist's try to destroy Classic Rock which is really doubtful, since when it comes down to it they are mostly on the same side, we - the opposition should be there to present the alternative (no pun intended) from artists that truly believe in liberty and the rights of women and children.
 
When they were firing on all cylinders, Skynyrd was a band, to quote the late, great Donald "Duck" Dunn, powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.



That "Wall Of Horns" and Billy Powell, pounding that piano like it owed him money, at 3:25, sends chills up my spine to this day.

If you ain't at least tapping your feet at that point, you're dead.


My favorite song showcasing BP!
 
I would say bring it on. Banning classic rock would start a rebellion, but no. Plenty of insane policies have passed without a whimper. On this alone, I am glad McCaulf lost.
 
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