Shots fired, Bundy arrested

I think he pretty much echoed what all the militias were saying about the situation. The reason why there were no militias onsite is that the operation went against most all militias' dictum that they are for defense not offense. The taking of the refuge was an offensive stance. Again, this is from the perspective of all the militias. This is of paramount importance when forming public perception and no battle can be won without maintaining that moral high ground. In any given situation the government must be made to look as the aggressors.
I think the militias truly wanted to help Ammon and Finicum but that they could not put themselves in the position of losing all that they had built upon. This is the reason for the advise to the Bundy's to let the occupation go, retrench somewhere else and continue to educate.

Yes, I understand 'offensive' vs. 'defensive' action. The ranchers' lack of judgment and tactics have been argued over ad nauseam. My issue is with his response (or lack thereof) regarding McConnell's actions. And, has anyone heard anything from Ryan Payne since he was supposedly thrown in jail? I don't know why, but those two are stuck in my craw, I have only speculation to go on, but something doesn't feel right about their actions.

The recorded call between Stewart et al, and LaVoy is so disturbing! They pretty much laid out exactly what was going to happen and it did. They tried to warn him. That needs to get out there because it does a much better job of vindicating the OK, than does the dude from Patriot Warriors, whatever his name is.
 
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You know..
People who brag about rank and elite units.
and people who talk about stolen valor (while doing nothing)

Are at best,, A Warlord wannabe,, or a Psyops idiot spreading discord, at the other worse end..

Folks don't have rank.

PEOPLE REALLY NEED TO KNOW WHO IS WHO.

Every Known/Named militia and organization has feds or fed snitches..

if you are dealing with any known organization,, then know this..

Heck,, some folks here are spooks.
 
Yeah, I heard him say that, but are we certain that wasn't just his opinion of the volunteers who showed up to back up the ranchers? And, it's already been discussed that they were infiltrated. I don't know for certain if Payne and McConnell are plants but their actions sure seem like it to me. And, the two women who had to share a "paddy wagon" with McConnell don't trust him either. I'll trust their instincts over his, for now.

Given the videos I've seen I believe his opinion correct. No militia put themselves on site. There was no vetting and anyone was allowed to join Bundy at Malhuer. That makes for a lot of naive individuals with visions of an Alamo participation. I definitely haven't trusted Payne since the Ranch and all the info that came out on him during and after. McConnell...I dunno. As an aside I think it's pretty coincidental that, from Cox's statement, all McConnell was worried about was his Jeep. And then there is the reporting that Blaine Cooper was bragging about the Jeep he bought cash down with contributions. What is it with Jeeps and these guys?
 
Given the videos I've seen I believe his opinion correct. No militia put themselves on site. There was no vetting and anyone was allowed to join Bundy at Malhuer. That makes for a lot of naive individuals with visions of an Alamo participation. I definitely haven't trusted Payne since the Ranch and all the info that came out on him during and after. McConnell...I dunno. As an aside I think it's pretty coincidental that, from Cox's statement, all McConnell was worried about was his Jeep. And then there is the reporting that Blaine Cooper was bragging about the Jeep he bought cash down with contributions. What is it with Jeeps and these guys?

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You know..
People who brag about rank and elite units.
and people who talk about stolen valor (while doing nothing)

Are at best,, A Warlord wannabe,, or a Psyops idiot spreading discord, at the other worse end..

Folks don't have rank.

PEOPLE REALLY NEED TO KNOW WHO IS WHO.

Every Known/Named militia and organization has feds or fed snitches..

if you are dealing with any known organization,, then know this..

Heck,, some folks here are spooks.

Pete, it is no secret that any militia, that advertises and does community work as such, above squad level has snitches.

But if you think that any situation should be entered without a command and control structure then you are pissing in the wind.

Now, don't get me wrong. The Bundy's and Finicum WERE NOT militia. Just pissed off Ranchers.

And that is well and good. But when you get yahoos like Payne and his cohorts that wish to affect military dress and arms then you have a problem. If the Ammons' and Finicum had wished to present this as an organic Ranchers versus Big Government situation then there should NOT have been any of this Rambo crew on hand.

Perception means shit when it comes to a battle in a much larger war.
 
Perception means shit when it comes to a battle in a much larger war.

Perhaps,,
That won't be sorted out here.

I'm as yet just an observer.. and an unarmed one at that.
I am certainly not looking to be in the trial that sorts them out.

Because it's only when you get in a fight that you know
 
Perhaps,,
That won't be sorted out here.

I'm as yet just an observer.. and an unarmed one at that.
I am certainly not looking to be in the trial that sorts them out.

Because it's only when you get in a fight that you know

It's a frikken pickle. The level of paranoia is enough to make one just find a cave.

But, it is not one that hasn't been experienced in the past.

Compartmentalizing doesn't work in psychology if one wishes to break through the barriers leading to truth. However, it is paramount when it comes to insurgencies.

Oregon was nothing more than individuals acting together. I think this was the Ammons' and Finicums' wish. They had compartmentalized their own op. For better or worse. I can't blame them for that for in the doing Theye were not able to implicate other elements in the fight for liberty.
 
Yes, I understand 'offensive' vs. 'defensive' action. The ranchers' lack of judgment and tactics have been argued over ad nauseam. My issue is with his response (or lack thereof) regarding McConnell's actions. And, has anyone heard anything from Ryan Payne since he was supposedly thrown in jail? I don't know why, but those two are stuck in my craw, I have only speculation to go on, but something doesn't feel right about their actions.

The recorded call between Stewart et al, and LaVoy is so disturbing! They pretty much laid out exactly what was going to happen and it did. They tried to warn him. That needs to get out there because it does a much better job of vindicating the OK, than does the dude from Patriot Warriors, whatever his name is.
Who comprises OK?

They told him on air they need to move laterally?
 
It's a frikken pickle.

That is truth.

Oregon was nothing more than individuals acting together.

Nope.. I wish that were so.
Opposition is quite entrenched and organized.

The Bundys, and some others, are individuals. There were organized anti-militia protests when there was no militia.
The Agenda 21 crowd is visibly present in my area (not far).

I am not sure what to think of these lawyers, but I have never trusted such anyway.

There will be no justice in court for the crimes committed.
 
Giving me negative reputation doesn't change my mind, or change reality. And you all know my feeling on authority, cops especially included.

I believe the majority of the people who were there and saw it, and the video. This isn't a case of the normal lying bullshit cover-up, I'm sorry... I just go with where the evidence lies. And I don't believe Sharp's account.

“He was not on his knees, none of that,” McConnell said. “He was none of that nonsense. You know, that was a miscommunication on somebody else’s part. But he went after them. He charged them. You know, LaVoy was very passionate about what he was doing up here.”

I think this write-up is accurate. You guys really live in a bubble sometimes, no offense, but you got to know when to think for yourselves... you come off like total moonbats defending stuff like this... I mean LaVoy almost ran a cop over, that alone is sometimes enough defense for lethal force.

Lavoy Forced Oregon Police to Shoot
 
Giving me negative reputation doesn't change my mind, or change reality. And you all know my feeling on authority, cops especially included.
Blargh, blargh, blargh...

You stated....

Video was released. You would have to be pretty thick to see anything other than LaVoy waving around a gun.

Even the FBI has said that he had a 9mm IN HIS POCKET. You pretty much didn't know shit about it and just decided to drop in and troll.
 
Don't feed the troll.

Here's an article worth reading: https://dianersite.wordpress.com/2016/02/09/theres-something-strange-happening-here/
There’s Something Strange Happening Here…

Written by Diane Rodgers on Feb. 7, 2016

About two years the Nation watched as Cliven Bundy stood in opposition against an unjust seizure of his ranch and grazing rights by the BLM. The event grew as patriotic Americans responded to his aid. The growing protest was ultimately successful in forcing the BLM to turn tail and retreat in face of the growing support that they could no longer control. Fast forward now to January 2, 2016 and we have a similar situation with the BLM is small town out west called Burns, Oregon. Since the start of this protest, the Main Stream Media (MSM) has been putting forth articles and news reports using such adjectives as “armed militants”, “right wing racists”, “terrorists” or “armed thugs”. Every story I read or listened to was basically the same, always one sided. I follow the belief that there are 3 sides to every story; you could call it her side, his side and the Truth. So when only one side is ever told, it is safe to assume that there is an agenda afoot. An agenda the MSM never speaks about.

So in my quest to get to the Truth, I decided to take an eight day vacation from my full time job to travel 3,000 miles via plane and car to that small town out west call Burns. What you are about to read is exactly what I witnessed and learned from my westward trip. I hope that this article, and those to follow, will help you see through the smokescreen of lies the media, at the bequest of our federal government , have been and are still telling us as the means to controlling the narrative.

Contrary to the MSM stories one finds on the situation in Burns Oregon, the real terrorist in Burns Oregon are not the framer, ranchers or loggers, nor are they the patriotic first responders. The farmer, ranchers and loggers are salt of the earth people, they are hardworking folks who bust their butts every day to earn a living as many of us do on a daily basis. The Patriotic first responders, men and women who have left behind their lives, families, friends and jobs in order to come to Burns to bring attention to the illegal land grabs and the usurpation of our Constitution. These people present no threat to the people of Burns as evidenced by the fact that they frequent the local stores, shops, restaurants and bars without any issues.

At first glance, it is easy to accept the media story that Sheriff David Ward invited the FBI to take over local control of the situation to help protect the citizens of Burns Oregon from a band of “armed occupiers”. But that is for another article. So let’s take a closer look at several key issues that most may not be seeing.

In past decades whenever there was a civil protest it was customary for the local police and maybe the use of the state police to control and insure that the protest remains peaceful. During the protests of the late 60’s when demonstration began turning violent, State’s at the request of their Governors started to call in the National Guard to assist the police in maintaining order and protecting the public.

The question to ask is why didn’t Oregon Governor, Kate Brown, in accordance with Title 32 of the United States Code, call for the Oregon National Guard to assist in any local police action in response to the “armed occupiers” at the Malheur Refuge. Could it be that Gov. Kate Brown was appointed to her position, not elected by the People of her State, as was Sheriff David Ward of Harney County? Could it be that these appointed officials are beholden, not the good People of Oregon, but strictly to those entities that placed them in their position and power. Another unusual fact is that Special Agent Greg Bretzing in charge of the Malhuer Refuge Occupation happens to be linked to a Nation Security breach along with other fraud and corruption violation, as reported by The Shasta Lantern. Click here to view that article.

But, here in Burns the situation is much different and potentially much more ominous and deadly, as evidenced by the murder of LaVoy Finicum, by agencies yet to be fully disclosed. Authorities acting under the color of law but not in adherence to our laws, first closed down the Burns school system, even though the “armed occupiers”, of which only 4 are now remaining, are located 30 plus miles from downtown Burns in the middle of nowhere. WHY? Why was this necessary?

read on.....
 
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Who comprises OK?

Anyone can join but they are mostly x military/x police who believe in the Constitution and adhering to its principles first and foremost, hence the name OathKeepers. Stewart Rhodes, x military; attorney, and former aide to Ron (years ago), is the founder.

They told him on air they need to move laterally?

No, it wasn't on air. It was after an aired interview. They weren't aware that skype was still recording. They practically begged LaVoy to move his operations to a county with a Constitutional Sheriff who would protect his rights. The ranchers were starting to gain ground and were being invited to speak publicly. On the call, Stewart et al encouraged that, and foretold what was about to happen if they (Ammon, LaVoy, et al) didn't change their course. Ironically, two days after this call, LaVoy's party was on their way, when he was murdered, to a county (50 miles away) that had invited them to speak, and that had a Constitutional Sheriff.
 
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Giving me negative reputation doesn't change my mind, or change reality. And you all know my feeling on authority, cops especially included.

I believe the majority of the people who were there and saw it, and the video. This isn't a case of the normal lying bullshit cover-up, I'm sorry... I just go with where the evidence lies. And I don't believe Sharp's account.

“He was not on his knees, none of that,” McConnell said. “He was none of that nonsense. You know, that was a miscommunication on somebody else’s part. But he went after them. He charged them. You know, LaVoy was very passionate about what he was doing up here.”

I think this write-up is accurate. You guys really live in a bubble sometimes, no offense, but you got to know when to think for yourselves... you come off like total moonbats defending stuff like this... I mean LaVoy almost ran a cop over, that alone is sometimes enough defense for lethal force.

Lavoy Forced Oregon Police to Shoot

Wrong. The officers on the scene, on that faithful day, violated several operational policies concerning pursuits and roadblocks. This operation was botched from the moment the vehicles left the refuge--it was clearly intended to illicit a desired response, a response of fleeting or violence.

The officer JUMPED in front of a moving vehicle, a vehicle that had veered off the roadway to avoid slamming head on into a blind roadblock wherein officers were standing all around their parked police vehicles--could they have been anymore negligent and imbecilic? I think yes, but not by very much.

The officers further violated operational policies by breaching the shielding of their vehicles--and entering the line-of-fire of the staged units--during a felony stop to surround Mr. Finicum as he walked towards them.

To then add insult, the officers then opened fired upon a clearly UNARMED individual, shooting him to his death--and then while knowing or suspecting him to be armed left him unrestrained with his weapons as they walked off with their backs to him.

Mr. Finicum made law enforcement shoot him upwards of NINE-TIMES in a timeframe of only SIX-SECONDS you say? You my friend, are a damned fool, and can go piss off with your weak-thought-process and mindless guff.
 
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Video was released. You would have to be pretty thick to see anything other than LaVoy waving around a gun.

The massive amounts of blatant dis-info... exactly like this... on this whole incident... proves lots to me.
 
The massive amounts of blatant dis-info... exactly like this... on this whole incident... proves lots to me.

The whole thing got started when the pigs released Mark McConnell and within one hour he gave a fake accounting of what happened on his Fascist Book page. It went viral and got over 345k hits and 7600 shares. It was the only account the media whores picked up on and when he recounted with his oh-so-insincere-apology for getting it wrong, the whores never corrected it. And people like Kade and others never bothered to research both sides of the issue and ran with McConnell's fake accounting.

I'm telling you, there is something sketchy about this Mark McConnell dude and of course, Ryan Payne. McConnell never gets arrested, just held. And Payne conveniently surrenders at the first stop, and we never hear from him again. Pete Santilli, who is still in jail has released statements, Ryan Bundy - still in jail has released statements; Ammon Bundy - still in jail - has released statements. But Payne?? uh uh.

I have no proof, just a bad feeling that these two are plants or compromised.
 
Giving me negative reputation doesn't change my mind, or change reality. [...]

[...] You guys really live in a bubble sometimes, no offense, but you got to know when to think for yourselves... you come off like total moonbats defending stuff like this...

Irrespective of one's opinions or interpretations of the event, how much more likely is it to "change [others'] mind" (or "change reality") by calling others unthinking, bubble-dwelling "moonbats" than by neg-repping them? (Seems like "six of one, half a dozen of the other" to me ...)
 
Wrong. The officers on the scene, on that faithful day, violated several operational policies concerning pursuits and roadblocks. This operation was botched from the moment the vehicles left the refuge--it was clearly intended to illicit a desired response, a response of fleeting or violence.

The officer JUMPED in front of a moving vehicle, a vehicle that had veered off the roadway to avoid slamming head on into a blind roadblock wherein officers were standing all around their parked police vehicles--could they have been anymore negligent and imbecilic? I think yes, but not by very much.

The officers further violated operational policies by breaching the shielding of their vehicles--and entering the line-of-fire of the staged units--during a felony stop to surround Mr. Finicum as he walked towards them.

To then add insult, the officers then opened fired upon a clearly UNARMED individual, shooting him to his death--and then while knowing or suspecting him to be armed left him unrestrained with his weapons as they walked off with their backs to him.

Mr. Finicum made law enforcement shoot him upwards of NINE-TIMES in a timeframe of only SIX-SECONDS you say? You my friend, are a damned fool, and can go piss off with your weak-thought-process and mindless guff.

Someone posted the video in slow-mo which seems to show that a shot went through the windshield just before the snowbank. As far as his arm reaching to his side it seems to be that one or more of the officers had shot him and he was reacting to the pain...
 
Someone posted the video in slow-mo which seems to show that a shot went through the windshield just before the snowbank. As far as his arm reaching to his side it seems to be that one or more of the officers had shot him and he was reacting to the pain...

About the windshield shot, that "artifact" can been seen earlier in the video while they were driving along the roadway, away from the first stop, so I am not certain it is indicative of a shot having been fired as they approached the roadblock--unless that shot into the windshield actually took place during the first confrontation?

The issue about him reaching where a gun would be if one were wearing a shoulder-holster (which Mr. Finicum was known to wear occasionally) is that the FBI stated they recovered a 9mm handgun from his jacket pocket, so why was he reaching towards his armpit/side-chest area, as that is not where a jacket pocket is located?

Regardless, if he was reaching for a firearm, something was preventing him from accomplishing that goal, as he made several failed attempts to do so--which at this point, he was legally justified in defending himself from assassination, with reasoned counter-force against his aggressors, in this case the OSP and FBI, as the Court has ruled time and time again.

Police ought be held to a higher standard of conduct in the public, not a lower standard, they receive extensive training, while the average citizen does not. Ergo, you do not shoot somebody just because they may have a weapon on them, you do not shoot somebody because they grab at their waistband or put a hand in their pants pocket, somebody facing away from you is not an imminent threat, a roadblock on a highway is a method of deadly force, etc.
 
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