'Shark Tank' Inventor Loses Big to 'Buy American' Fallacy

[jmdrake]

No straw man here. If you had addressed the rest of my post...

Ipod/ipad.. They charged a premium even when its parts and assembly is all made overseas. Imagine it was assembled here. Imagine its parts where made here....

There wasn't anything in the rest of the post worth addressing. It's just more straw man crap. Nobody said that every component of every product needed to be made in America. In fact I didn't even say Apple shouldn't be allowed to make iPods in China. That said, it's beyond stupid to claim, as some have in this thread, that Apple wouldn't be able to sell iPods if they weren't 100% made in China because someone else would "sell something cheaper and put them out of business" when there are already cheaper alternatives to Apple products and Apple is making record profits.

 

[weilian]

There wasn't anything in the rest of the post worth addressing. It's just more straw man crap. Nobody said that every component of every product needed to be made in America. In fact I didn't even say Apple shouldn't be allowed to make iPods in China. That said, it's beyond stupid to claim, as some have in this thread, that Apple wouldn't be able to sell iPods if they weren't 100% made in China because someone else would "sell something cheaper and put them out of business" when there are already cheaper alternatives to Apple products and Apple is making record profits.

I dont know why you keep comparing a chinese made and assembled product (ipod, designed in america) with other chinese made and assembled products (may or may not be designed in america)

 

[idiom]

Its not very libertarian to support subsidising environmental damage, which is what China does but not enforcing property laws, or to support slave labour conditions.

Its not like the outsourcing is going to countries with strong private property laws. The outsourcing is going to countries that support low production costs through tyranny.

 

[jmdrake]

I dont know why you keep comparing a chinese made and assembled product (ipod) with other chinese made and assembled products.

Because the specific point I was making was a refutation of the claims being made that if someone could made a similar product to yours cheaper you would automagically go out of business. As for U.S. products, I've already mentioned some earlier in the thread. But again that has nothing to do with the specific point I was making. Understand now?

 

[dannno]

Regardless of all of that, your claim that consumer purchases are made solely on the basis of cost is provably wrong.

I never made that claim. However, when they can manufacture one of these truck frames at well under $100 while this guy is manufacturing his in the US for $220, what happens when they sell the Chinese versions for $199.99 and they are just about as good as the ones being made here? He can't even get his cost down to the price of the Chinese made versions..

And don't give me that "They can lower the price in American through mechanization" crap, because the same mechanization you can do in America you can do in China.

Yes but if you can do it here it is cheaper because you don't have to ship.

Yep. Free markets are great. And in our current less than free market the inventor in the OP should be applauded to sticking to his guns the same way Ron Paul is applauded for sticking to his.

You could look at it like that.. But would you prefer this guy who has a penchant for manufacturing in the US be the successful entrepreneur who brought this product to market through outsourcing, or would you rather a company that has a penchant for manufacturing overseas bring this product to market and be successful?

 

[John F Kennedy III]

I am a Business Analyst for a company who actively pursues manufacturing products in China and Taiwan, our profit margin is nearly double for items manufactured overseas. If we didn't do it, our competitor would be in business and we would not. It is not our decision to manufacture overseas.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Oreck


Toyota has assembly plants in the US, too, but the components aren't built here.

I think you may be trying to apply your situation to the whole damn thing. If so, not everything fits in a neat little box.

I'm not claiming to know anything, just a thought.

I love TOYOTA, btw.

 

[idiom]

I never made that claim. However, when they can manufacture one of these truck frames at well under $100 while this guy is manufacturing his in the US for $220, what happens when they sell the Chinese versions for $199.99 and they are just about as good as the ones being made here? He can't even get his cost down to the price of the Chinese made versions.

What if a huge chunk of their low cost of manufacturing is because they don't have to clean up after themselves, and can't be sued for wrongful death or injury?

 

[tod evans]

I'm in the make it here camp, I'll go out of my way and pay a premium to support businesses that I agree with.

Every chance I get to put foreign made goods back on the shelf and pick up something made at home I will even if it costs more.

Heck I won't buy Toyota or Datsun even though they're made here...

 

[weilian]

I'm in the make it here camp, I'll go out of my way and pay a premium to support businesses that I agree with.

Every chance I get to put foreign made goods back on the shelf and pick up something made at home I will even if it costs more.

Heck I won't buy Toyota or Datsun even though they're made here...

allen edmonds or aldens? brooks brothers or oxxford?

 

[tod evans]

allen edmonds or aldens? brooks brothers or oxxford?

Absolutely no idea of what you speak?

 

[TheTexan]

Buying locally, as in, from your neighborhood, makes sense.. but on a national level, what's the point? National pride? Trying to gain an economic edge over other countries?

I may even prefer sending my money over to China.. at least I can be fairly sure that money won't turn around and be used to oppress me somehow...

 

[Steven Douglas]

The fact that the SERFS squable over which serfdom territory is getting screwed over more is laughable.

You say, "Hey kids! Did you know that if Jigsaw hadn't kidnapped a bunch of victims and put them into a macabre "WOULD YOU RATHER" torture game--you wouldn't be having this conversation at all?"

To which their dull eyes give you vacant stares, with cud that is chewed just a bit slower for a moment...until they turn back away and start bickering with each other again over what would be best decisions to make--in Jigsaw's puzzle--which they take for granted as 'normal'.

It's one the damnedest things in the world, but it makes me understand why all regimes are possible, regardless how insane, at all times.

 

[weilian]

Absolutely no idea of what you speak?

hehe, well then, take it as a tip. made in america shoes and made in america clothing.

 

[MelissaWV]

Buying locally, as in, from your neighborhood, makes sense.. but on a national level, what's the point? National pride? Trying to gain an economic edge over other countries?

I may even prefer sending my money over to China.. at least I can be fairly sure that money won't turn around and be used to oppress me somehow...

There isn't a point. People buy the line that they are making the nation better, but then miss the fact that most "foreign" companies employ quite a lot of Americans, while a lot of traditionally "American" companies outsource a large section of their customer service, manufacturing, or other aspects.

 

[dannno]

What if a huge chunk of their low cost of manufacturing is because they don't have to clean up after themselves, and can't be sued for wrongful death or injury?

Fair point. If I were the guy on this show I would have said that I would be willing to manufacture overseas as long as I was personally able to inspect the manufacturing facility and the workers.

I believe companies should take some responsibility regarding where their goods are produced and how.

I don't go to China personally, but I personally know the people who do go to visit our manufacturers. We only have a handful of manufacturers over there and if the conditions for the workers were that bad I'd know about it.

The pressure to manufacture overseas is very high and the cost savings can be quite lucrative, even necessary to stay in business. Again, it wouldn't be that way in the free market. If you want to produce something in the US, go for it, but you will likely be out of business before long. It is very unfortunate that we are in this situation where business have to do this because of our currency imbalance.

 

[LibertyEagle]

We should support Americans. By giving them access to high quality products at affordable prices.

If that means outsourcing to China... then so be it. If you choose to "Buy American" that's your choice, but me.. I fucking love my cheap chinese shit.

The phrase "high quality" and the word "China" should not be used together.

 

[LibertyEagle]

What if a huge chunk of their low cost of manufacturing is because they don't have to clean up after themselves, and can't be sued for wrongful death or injury?

Very good points.

 

[KrokHead]

If there was no welfare, you know food stamps, assisted housing, medicaid, $8 an hour jobs wouldn't exist for grown adults because they wouldn't be able to afford to live. Minimum wage is stupid ideologically but artificially low wages only exist because a lot of people with those low paying jobs are getting free money from the government to live. If there was no welfare and the US made an effort to protect manufacturing people would make the wages they deserve.

 

[LibertyEagle]

If there was no welfare, you know food stamps, assisted housing, medicaid, $8 an hour jobs wouldn't exist for grown adults because they wouldn't be able to afford to live. Minimum wage is stupid ideologically but artificially low wages only exist because a lot of people with those low paying jobs are getting free money from the government to live. If there was no welfare and the US made an effort to protect manufacturing people would make the wages they deserve.

Actually, one of the problems is labor unions requiring that "manufacturing people" get more wages than they "deserve". ie. what the market will bear. Or maybe you can tell me why in hell someone in a union should be paid to sit on their asses and get paid during a layoff? Hell no, the government should not protect that.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Someone explain something to me, please. Why is it that after the WTO was established and NAFTA, CAFTA, etc. were passed that the giant sucking sound that Perot warned about did in fact happen. In addition to the once fairly even trade balance between China and America that then became a huge imbalance illustrated by the stockpile of shipping containers that were not needed for a return trip to China. Jobs and entire industries were outsourced, including nearly all of manufacturing and a good portion of the software industry. Unemployment is as high now as during the Great Depression, with no end in sight.

Then tell me why you think this was a good thing. In your own words, please.

Thank you.

Because in a vacuum, with a whole mass of important variables excluded, an economic hypothesis says that it is better. Plus politicians and corporate leaders told me it was a good thing. If I can't trust politicians and Wall St, who can I trust?