Serious misgivings about this march idea

[KevinDW78]

If this rally is going to be some Ron Paul Blimp II, the "Revolution shall rise again", masturbatory, loud music event for us to bitch about how bad it is... count me out...

I'm tired of the whining about the media, the conspiracy, and how they are all out to get us, It was fun for a while, but we need to grow up.

Amen. I am already about to count myself out just based on the idiotic things said by the people on this forum on this issue.

 

[innocent bystander]

4. Organizing such an event is hard work and a difficult task. Thus far, we have not seen any such ability from the official campaign or the grassroots. Take a look at the anti-Vietnam rallies… organizing and coordination of such an event is quite challenging.

we could probably get large organizations involved such as ANSWER and other civil rights coalitions if we make the broad topic the advancement of liberty or something like that (instead of just to get paul elected.) i was at an anti war rally in california and there were a ton of older folks from the vietnam protest days who have well-ran organizations that would contribute to such a cause, and many of them who i asked said they would vote for ron paul, even though that wasnt the point of the rally

 

[AgentOrange]

Guys, I'm a Ron Paul supporter 1000% and would never, ever vote for anyone else. I'm dedicated to him full time. BUT I don't agree with having a march. The media didn't cover a HUGE peace march on Washington last year. I said this in another post on here that the marchers got sprayed with some chemical that made them all very sick with a respiratory ailment. We can't afford to have any of our numbers downed by crowd control chemicals.

Thank you for posting this. I agree, there is almost no chance that the media will give any coverage whatsoever to a Ron Paul march. If the media does cover the march, it will be to focus on the craziest person they can find at the event, and then say that is how everyone at the event was.

Don't people remember the news coverage in Miami on how the Ron Paul supporters lining streets were completely cut off and the one non-Ron Paul supporter showed and it made out to be that everyone was there supporting non-Ron Paul candidates?

The money spent on a march would be better spent in a mass mailing or buying newspaper ads.

But hey, it's a free country (at least at the moment). If people want to march, go for it. Maybe I'm wrong and Ron Paul is right about the effectiveness of a march.

 

[newbitech]

I have some concerns about this march. Before I get absolutely flamed please keep in mind that Ron Paul said in his message that “I’m throwing this out as an idea”.

Here are my concerns, in no particular order:
1. If the event is held at the end of May (RP suggested 3-4 months from now) only four states would remain in the primary schedule and we would have no effect in the states that have already voted.
2. I don’t see a clear purpose to this march. Are we trying to affect government change… help elect Ron Paul… get media exposure? I am truly at a loss as to the purpose and the results we expect to achieve. The media has done a terrific job of ignoring us… I expect they will do a similar job in ignoring us with such a march.
3. To have any sort of success we would have to have some very large numbers… probably 100,000 or more. If we fail in having a very large group the effort will look like a failure and could spell the end of our efforts. Such a failure could be so disheartening as to spell the end of this budding movement… to restore a constitutionally based government.
4. Organizing such an event is hard work and a difficult task. Thus far, we have not seen any such ability from the official campaign or the grassroots. Take a look at the anti-Vietnam rallies… organizing and coordination of such an event is quite challenging.
5. Avoiding usurpers will be a major challenge. Without a clearly defined purpose we are already seeing varying causes and speakers being proposed. The mix includes a range from Socialists to Libertarians. This presents the very real danger of the march being appropriated for groups with interests I do not share.
6. Using the anti-Vietnam rallies as an example there will be a mix of people and groups. We may not all share the same intentions at such an event. I am concerned that we would not appear as a serious group who’s ideas are worthy of consideration if the event is marred by “single issue” groups or those already planning disruptive and illegal acts.
7. Marches are historically ineffective. Take a look at the history… there have been many marches on Washington and most of them have been forgotten and produced little or no meaningful results. Even the “March on Washington for Jobs & Freedom” did not result in any immediate changes and estimates place the number of marchers at 250,000. Consider the results of “The Million Man March”, the “Lesbian & Gay Rights” marches, the “March Against the Iraq War”. All had limited results in affecting government change compared to the effort and expenditure. I know this is arguable… but go have a look at the actual direct results of previous marches. The only effective results have come after years of continued effort rather than a single big event.
8. The cost versus results does not add up for me. If 100,000 attended and their average cost for travel, food & lodging was $250 each (which I think is very conservative) we would be looking at a total expenditure of $25,000,000.00. I think we could get much better results with 25 Million by focusing on getting Ron Paul “clones” elected to congress or by educating others.
9. For quite a few people traveling to DC is just out of the question. Taking time off from work, family issues, the costs are also major hurdles that many will not be able to overcome.

It would be great to meet other constitutionally minded folks… to know that we are not alone and see the power of what could become an actual movement. I am gravely concerned about the risk versus return and am not convinced a “March on Washington” is in our best interests.

I am REALLY not trying to be a naysayer. I would appreciate it if someone could provide convincing arguments as to why the march would be a good thing.

1.) When I heard Dr. Paul's rally call, I didn't think it would have anything to do necessarily with the primaries. I'll listen to it again, but in my mind, this event is the symbolic passing of the torch of freedom from Dr. Paul to ALL the people of this country, not just his supporters.

2.) Don't you remember the MSM questioning weather or not Dr. Paul's online support would translate into votes? As far as the MSM is concerned, Dr. Paul was never on the ballot. It's not just Dr. Paul who has been ignored by the MSM and the rest of the country. It's all the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of people who voted for him. This movement is the epicenter of all that is happening politically, yet the establishment takes credit. The purpose of this event is to step outside ourselves and physically go to Washington DC. Like Dr. Paul said, if only a couple thousand people show, how bad did We the People really want to go to from the beginning? This event is a measuring stick for the movement. There are so many reasons to do this, but in my mind, the #1 reason is because it is the right (correct) thing to do at this point in history.

3.) Yep you are 100% correct. However, the consequences of putting this off for some future date would have the same effect. Dr. Paul has always said that he wasn't sure if the country was ready for this message. He too was reluctant. We as his supporters is what encouraged him to go for it. Now, he as the leader is encouraging YOU to go for it! So GO FOR IT!

4.) Pick a date, pull the permit, and go! It really won't take that much effort. If each person acts according to their own convictions, the only thing left to really do is pray for good weather! We have plenty of time to plan this. In fact, my friends and family were already talking road trip 2-3 weeks ago. It takes about 2 hours to pack a family of 5 for a 3 day road trip. This should be a trial run for anyone who really believes that some day soon, we all may have to head for the hills. Living in FL, I am accustomed to the evacuation routine. Its not that bad really.

As far as hundreds of thousands of people converging in DC, well the campaign should be able to handle pulling permits and cordoning off a large area in the city where we can all meet for a few days. There is plenty of lead time on this. That's the bare minimum that needs to be done, everything else is creature comforts.

5.) I really don't see the problem here. Freedom is popular. Thats all that needs to be said. The event is not going to be catering to special interests if thats what your thinking, unless of course that special interest is Freedom.

6.) Hate to say it but I think you are fluffing this up a bit. Its good thinking, and sure we are going to see a melting pot of freedom lovers. Big deal. All it will take to bring ALL the groups into focus is Dr. Paul speaking. Thats the moment we are all going to see. TOGETHER. At that point I believe, even the trouble makers will be swept up in the message. I don't think its going to be snowing,.

7.) Marches may be ineffective, but history books are littered with them. When I heard Dr. Paul's call for a march, the first thought that popped in my head was, wow this is going to be talked about long after the governments and people of this world become unrecognizable to us. Bottom line, let it not be said that we did nothing.

8.) Money has never been a problem in getting this message out. Why should it be now? The problem is the ignorance of the majority population in this country. Our time and effort (as well as money) in pulling this off, will have a direct an immediate impact on the hearts and minds of our fellow countrymen. You cannot put a price on that.

9.) All the more reason that the people who can attend do so. This is scary close to the same mentality that I perceive of those who did not vote for Dr. Paul because of the elect-ability argument. I know that's not what you meant, but still, just because I don't think that some people won't make it, doesn't mean I have to sit home too!

I have spoken with you on the phone Tarzan. I helped convince people to get the blimp down here in Tampa before the Giants playoff game. I didn't have enough time to get the fly over rights during the game, but you have no idea how effective that blimp was in helping me wake more than a few people up.

Lots of people said the blimp was a waste. guess what? it wasn't because if even one person gets turned on to Dr. Paul's message because of the ingenuity, dedication, and persistence of his followers, that one person will be a supporter for life and we will have won! Thats what this march is about and that is why i want to see YOU there!

Respectfully,

John in FL.

 

[maeqFREEDOMfree]

can't wait for the march!

 

[maeqFREEDOMfree]

hrmmm being that it's in the [somewhat] warmer months maybe we could coordinate some camp grounds? i bet there's a lot of people who love camping... i know i'd make a weekend out of it

 

[newbitech]

hrmmm being that it's in the [somewhat] warmer months maybe we could coordinate some camp grounds? i bet there's a lot of people who love camping... i know i'd make a weekend out of it

and that is exactly the point! it will be an awesome weekend! I myself have never been to DC and many others that I will get to tag along haven't been either! Its an event! Its a reason to go!

A vacation with a grand purpose. I can take care of 2 birds with one stone here. The money I will spending to go to DC for this march is NOT money that I would have spent supporting politics. But now I can feel really good about doing something that I have always wanted to do, but have never seen the point.

This must be how people not from FL (im from FL) feel when they are planning a trip to Disney World! YAY!

 

[libertygrl]

First off, let me start by reminding people that the Ron Paul Forums is a place for supporters with varying opinions to stop by and share ideas. While I don't always argree with some people, I respect their right to express themselves. Just because you don't share the same opinion as someone else, doesn't mean they are somehow less of a Ron Paul supporter. Afterall, this campaign is supposed to all be about FREEDOM isn't it??

I too, share some of the same concerns that were posted about the march. It is indeed a huge risk. But then I looked back on our history and realized that the whole founding of America was based upon RISK. It was not founded by the fainthearted. People keep questioning the purpose for having a march in the first place. But I think Ron Paul answered all those doubts and questions. It's about energizing the movement and proving we exist. We may not all know Dr. Paul personally, but I think we can agree that this is a man who just doesn't dive into something. He's someone who gives things a lot of thought.

I think the benefits of this march far outweigh the risks. We have an opportunity to show Washington and the entire world, that there ARE in fact Americans who are no longer asleep, content with our video games, SUV's and iPhones. That we are awake and ready to reclaim our Constitution. That we are growing in numbers and that we will no longer allow illegal wars to be waged in our name, innocent lives to be killed in our name or tyranny to take a hold in our country. Believe me, the elites WILL sit up and take notice.

For far too long, and through our own negligence, we've allowed them to steal our power (represented by the Constitution.) And in doing so we have felt powerless. But this march presents an opportunity for "WE THE PEOPLE" to take our power back, and to inspire other Americans. Some naysayers may laugh and say it won't accomplish anything. But I believe otherwise.

I also believe this decision of whether to attend the march or not, is OUR DAY OF RECKONING. I know it is for me. We've reached a crossroads in the rEVOLution. This is the time for supporters to personally decide whether their involvement in this campaign was like a brief moment in time - just like any other election - or whether this campaign, was the beginning of something much greater than ourselves, and recognizing the fact that the threat to our freedoms is indeed a REALITY.

If not enough people show, then this entire movement was just a pretense. (That's the risk isn't it?) Then the media got it right - we were NOT the numbers that we claimed to be. That we were just a bunch of computer geeks on the internet all day spamming the polls. There's a lot at stake and we've got a lot to prove.

Ron Paul ignited the flame of LIBERTY in ALL of us. He is passing that torch onto us and it is our OBLIGATION and DUTY as Americans to keep it going. With all that we now know of what is at stake, how can we NOT go? This is our moment in history and only history will decide whether the downfall of America came about because we chose to end our fight for freedom with the Ron Paul campaign, or whether we chose to continue on. I see this march as a GIANT step in our next journey. Failure of it's success is NOT an option.

 

[hotbrownsauce]

1. Primary's don't matter anymore
2. The purposes is to get definitive media attention. I question your supporter status for asking.
3. Ron Paul said we should march, there will be a march. 100k on the meetups but I think 500k+ will show.
4. Organizing? Call a date we will show. This is a ridiculous statement. This message is the most important message in the world. Get a grip. I question your integrity to spread the message.
5. We will all have to agree to disagree. But more importantly, we will agree on the purpose of showing up to the march. For god's sake its Ron Paul calling it on, so if you don't support his message don't show. I question your support again.
6. Doesn't matter what groups show up. I hope that all show. This is why RP didn't give white supremacy groups back thier money from donations. Its the message.
7. Only marches that you participate in are not historical.
8. Money is not an issue. A presidential candidate ordered a march. Thats history and will generate more coverage than any old rally. But you see... this isnt a rally. Its a MARCH. Not some little rally.
9. IF the message is strong enough people will show. You questioning it probably means you wont show... THANK GOD! Work, family issues, costs wont matter when were all in the FEMA camps.

There is no risk in this march. Im glad your so patriotic inwhich that you dont believe in this movement, this soon to be historical March in Washington is not in our best interests. Thanks.

You are a naysayer by even bringing them up. Im seriously questioning your Trust in Ron Paul.

+1,332,322

 

[BCalla]

March Purpose.
To come together in a common message and large voice. Everyone voting for Ron Paul wants to change america and give our message a chance for America to hear all of us. Others will listen and see the numbers. People like to be a part of something and sometimes they need purpose and to see America how it should be.
But the message must be clear.
First the important message to send to America is not just being ANTI-WAR.
This is not the movement of 60's hippies. For once it's a movement of conservatives and libertartain views.
1. We want our Freedom - and are fighting to Restore and Save the Constitution.
2. We are against the IRS, and the abusive TAX burden on Americans. - Income tax esp.
3. Against the National ID card.
4. We are against World Government and policeman of the world.
5. We are against NAFTA, CAFTA the WTO.
6. Against Open Borders and Amensty.
7. Bring our Troops home to unity America and the soldiers familes.

Most importantly this a Normal Americans protest not a "group" or a special interest protest.

That is the theme of this March/Rally/Protest.
This sends a signal to the elite leftist and Neocons and those in power we will not go down without a fight. We will save our sovergnity and WAKE UP the American People.

 

[amy31416]

First off, let me start by reminding people that the Ron Paul Forums is a place for supporters with varying opinions to stop by and share ideas. While I don't always argree with some people, I respect their right to express themselves. Just because you don't share the same opinion as someone else, doesn't mean they are somehow less of a Ron Paul supporter. Afterall, this campaign is supposed to all be about FREEDOM isn't it??

I too, share some of the same concerns that were posted about the march. It is indeed a huge risk. But then I looked back on our history and realized that the whole founding of America was based upon RISK. It was not founded by the fainthearted. People keep questioning the purpose for having a march in the first place. But I think Ron Paul answered all those doubts and questions. It's about energizing the movement and proving we exist. We may not all know Dr. Paul personally, but I think we can agree that this is a man who just doesn't dive into something. He's someone who gives things a lot of thought.

I think the benefits of this march far outweigh the risks. We have an opportunity to show Washington and the entire world, that there ARE in fact Americans who are no longer asleep, content with our video games, SUV's and iPhones. That we are awake and ready to reclaim our Constitution. That we are growing in numbers and that we will no longer allow illegal wars to be waged in our name, innocent lives to be killed in our name or tyranny to take a hold in our country. Believe me, the elites WILL sit up and take notice.

For far too long, and through our own negligence, we've allowed them to steal our power (represented by the Constitution.) And in doing so we have felt powerless. But this march presents an opportunity for "WE THE PEOPLE" to take our power back, and to inspire other Americans. Some naysayers may laugh and say it won't accomplish anything. But I believe otherwise.

I also believe this decision of whether to attend the march or not, is OUR DAY OF RECKONING. I know it is for me. We've reached a crossroads in the rEVOLution. This is the time for supporters to personally decide whether their involvement in this campaign was like a brief moment in time - just like any other election - or whether this campaign, was the beginning of something much greater than ourselves, and recognizing the fact that the threat to our freedoms is indeed a REALITY.

If not enough people show, then this entire movement was just a pretense. (That's the risk isn't it?) Then the media got it right - we were NOT the numbers that we claimed to be. That we were just a bunch of computer geeks on the internet all day spamming the polls. There's a lot at stake and we've got a lot to prove.

Ron Paul ignited the flame of LIBERTY in ALL of us. He is passing that torch onto us and it is our OBLIGATION and DUTY as Americans to keep it going. With all that we now know of what is at stake, how can we NOT go? This is our moment in history and only history will decide whether the downfall of America came about because we chose to end our fight for freedom with the Ron Paul campaign, or whether we chose to continue on. I see this march as a GIANT step in our next journey. Failure of it's success is NOT an option.

Very well said.

I will be there and I will support true (and only true) Ron Paul Republicans. This is it folks, we are responsible for our future.

 

[BCalla]

ROn Paul supporters beware. Don't believe those who are against the march. I question if they really understand the needs to get anything done in this country. Also some might not even be Ron Paul supporters at all. Civil disobence might be needed to stop this country from destroying itself. It might be the only thing to stop socialism and the power of government. TO stop the national id card.

 

[newbitech]

ROn Paul supporters beware. Don't believe those who are against the march. I question if they really understand the needs to get anything done in this country. Also some might not even be Ron Paul supporters at all. Civil disobence might be needed to stop this country from destroying itself. It might be the only thing to stop socialism and the power of government. TO stop the national id card.

i appreciate what you are saying, HOWEVER, you really don't need to say it here or now. this is public board therefor, discernment is a prerequisite for reading and posting. most of us who have more than 9 posts understand this.

you just really came across as being what you are warning against. the OP of this thread is a long time RP supporter and has credentials.

This will be a peaceful rally, and calling for civil disobedience is out of line.

please read more and post less/

 

[Luft97]

ROn Paul supporters beware. Don't believe those who are against the march. I question if they really understand the needs to get anything done in this country. Also some might not even be Ron Paul supporters at all. Civil disobence might be needed to stop this country from destroying itself. It might be the only thing to stop socialism and the power of government. TO stop the national id card.

The only thing we need to be aware of are crazed supporters who show up armed in masks carrying signs that have nothing to do with Ron Paul and people carrying bullhorns refering to Ron Paul supporters as an army that needs to be used.

I am amazed at the ammount of people that have hijacked Ron's message and idea and turned it into a crazy fight the power protest.

When I heard Ron announce to everyone about a political rally to show our numbers comparing it to the money bombs I thought, Wow great idea! Ron paul said it would be risky... NOT RISKY TO OUR LIFE as so many of you people would like to think but Risky for the campaign because if people did not show it would make the statement there were not alot of supporters.

But SO many of you have some crazy romantic idea that he intended us to show up and make a stand in some V like Protest / Demonstration.

I really hope he clarifies the issue soon so that we can get past all of this and move foreward with a great political rally.

 

[libertygrl]

The only thing we need to be aware of are crazed supporters who show up armed in masks carrying signs that have nothing to do with Ron Paul and people carrying bullhorns refering to Ron Paul supporters as an army that needs to be used.

I am amazed at the ammount of people that have hijacked Ron's message and idea and turned it into a crazy fight the power protest.

When I heard Ron announce to everyone about a political rally to show our numbers comparing it to the money bombs I thought, Wow great idea! Ron paul said it would be risky... NOT RISKY TO OUR LIFE as so many of you people would like to think but Risky for the campaign because if people did not show it would make the statement there were not alot of supporters.

But SO many of you have some crazy romantic idea that he intended us to show up and make a stand in some V like Protest / Demonstration.

I really hope he clarifies the issue soon so that we can get past all of this and move foreward with a great political rally.

Therein lies yet another risk. If not from some overly radical Ron Paul supporters, it could very well come from elsewhere:

From Wikipedia:
Agents provocateurs : person employed by the police or other law enforement body to act undercover and entice or provoke another person to commit an illegal act.


Three protesters in Montebello, Canada during the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America were accused of being police provocateurs August 20th by Dave Coles, president of the Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union of Canada. The entire incident was filmed and posted on YouTube before being picked up by mainstream media. The video shows three masked men, one of whom was armed with a large rock, being confronted by peaceful protesters. One of the masked men spoke to police officers, and then all three pretended to breach the police line and were 'arrested.' Photographs revealed that their boot-tread matched that of the arresting officers. Although they at first denied that the individuals in question were agents provocateurs, Sûreté du Québec issued a news release on August 23 admitting that the three protesters were, in fact, police officers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provocateur

This is the most serious concern I have. I wouldn't even know how to counter-act it. Maybe try to promote, as much as we can - that we are peaceful Americans rallying for Freedom, and that any acts of violence or illegal behavior will not be tolerated. Maybe even mention that we are aware that Provocateurs exist that would want to destroy our movement. (Also, everyone should carry a video camera or cell phone camera) I think this is something we seriously need to consider in preperation of the march.