'Self-made' billionaire wants to mine the moon

[lx43]

This is why the cost of getting into space hasn't come down, its because the tentacles of govt are still trying to control it. Everything the govt is involved in from healthcare to education to space exploration the cost are out of this world.

 

[Zippyjuan]

How about colonizing Mars and mining the asteroids in the asteroid belt? Sounds like alot better idea to me.

Even more difficult and expensive than trying to mine the moon.

 

[jmdrake]

And why does he need money from the government to do this if he is a billionaire? If he is so interested, he should just do it on his own dime.

Most billionaires become that way from effectively using other people's money. They can get it honestly through investments, dishonestly through fraud or legitimized dishonesty through government.

 

[jmdrake]

I don't see how mining on the moon could possibly be comoetetive with mining on the Earth. Sure it is technically feasable but profitable would be another question. Just the transportation costs would be, pardon the pun, "astronomical".

That depends on if you actually are trying to bring it back to earth. The moon mining scenario I'm most familiar with is colonize/mine the moon then build spaceships on the moon to launch to Mars or other destinations.

 

[Zippyjuan]

What would be the point of mining the moon and not bringing it back? You would not get any revenue for your efforts to help pay for your costs (unless you expect the taxpayers to pay for it all for you).

 

[jmdrake]

What would be the point of mining the moon and not bringing it back? You would not get any revenue for your efforts to help pay for your costs (unless you expect the taxpayers to pay for it all for you).

Well if you're planning on going to Mars anyway building a spaceship on the moon might actually be cheaper. Or say if you wanted to build a "space hotel" orbiting the earth. Since blasting off from the moon takes less energy it might be cheaper to fabricate it on the moon and send it back.

 

[amy31416]

Jain's company, Moon Express, Inc., has already been awarded $10 million by NASA, and plans to establish a mining operation on the moon's surface within a couple of years.

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And this is economically viable?
Yes, says Jain. The most expensive part — reaching the moon — can be done for under a hundred million dollars — "a pittance," he says. "There's a tremendous amount of waste in the government," explains Jain. With NASA's space shuttle program shuttered, Jain sees an opportunity. "Private companies can do things better."

 

[Zippyjuan]

Well if you're planning on going to Mars anyway building a spaceship on the moon might actually be cheaper. Or say if you wanted to build a "space hotel" orbiting the earth. Since blasting off from the moon takes less energy it might be cheaper to fabricate it on the moon and send it back.

Let me see. You have two options. One, build a larger spaceship on Earth- using existing facilities and resources. Or build it in parts on the Earth, send them up into orbit and join them together up there and then proceed on to Mars.

Or you can go to the moon with lots of rockets bringing gear, equipment, people, and supplies like food and water and air. Build and operate a mining facility and a processing plant and a manufacturing facility (you need the fuel for these facilities as well) to make a rocket ship there.

Which program would be lower cost?

 

[jmdrake]

Let me see. You have two options. One, build a larger spaceship on Earth- using existing facilities and resources. Or build it in parts on the Earth, send them up into orbit and join them together up there and then proceed on to Mars.

Or you can go to the moon with lots of rockets bringing gear, equipment, people, and supplies like food and water. Build and operate a mining facility and a processing plant and a manufacturing facility to make a rocket ship there.

Which program would be lower cost?

One time or X number of times?

 

[Zippyjuan]

What do you think the break even number of flights might be? I think it would be extremely high (more than 1000). Remember, it would probably take hundreds of flights simply to get the mining and production facilities up and running.

 

[archangel689]

You need a reusable rocket, like elon musk has said a million times over.


PREDICTION: Governments of earth attempt to tax colonies on moon and mars. Guess what happens?

 

[Zippyjuan]

OK- so we use the same rocket over and over going to the moon. Let us go with this assumption. This rocket has to take with it the fuel the plants on the moon need to produce their output and this rocket also has to carry the fuel for the rocket from the moon to Mars (there isn't any available on the moon). Wouldn't it be more efficient to put that fuel on the rocket at it's Earth station and avoid the gas station on the moon? (with it just basically being a gas station and reusing our rockets, we no longer have any reason to be mining the moon and building rockets there which was the original premise).

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

One obvious problem with the concept will be the lunar shifting caused when weight of the products created are redistributed from the moon to the earth. This will then cause disruption of the earth's tide quickening global warming.

 

[jmdrake]

OK- so we use the same rocket over and over going to the moon. Let us go with this assumption. This rocket has to take with it the fuel the plants on the moon need to produce their output and this rocket also has to carry the fuel for the rocket from the moon to Mars (there isn't any available on the moon). Wouldn't it be more efficient to put that fuel on the rocket at it's Earth station and avoid the gas station on the moon? (with it just basically being a gas station and reusing our rockets, we no longer have any reason to be mining the moon and building rockets there which was the original premise).

Read this: Moon gas could meet earth's future energy demands: scientists

 

[Zippyjuan]

Thank you for the link.

Helium 3 is deposited on the lunar surface by solar winds and would have to be extracted from moon soil and rocks.

To extract helium 3 gas the rocks have to be heated above 1,400 degs Fdegs C). Some 200 million tonnes of lunar soil would produce one tonne of helium, Taylor said, noting that only 10 kilos of helium are available on earth.

Indian President A.P.J. Abdul Kalam told the International Conference on Exploration and Utilisation of the Moon on Wednesday that the barren planet held about one million tonnes of helium 3.

"The moon contains 10 times more energy in the form of Helium 3 than all the fossil fuels on the earth," Kalam said.

However, planetary scientist Taylor said the reactor technology for converting helium 3 to energy was still in its infancy and could take years to develop.

"The problem is that there is not yet an efficient type of reactor to process helium 3. It is currently being done mostly as a laboratory experiment. Right now at the rate which it (research) is proceeding it will take another 30 years," he said.

So you have to extract 100 million tons of moon rock and heat it to 1400 degrees (can't tell if that is Farenheit or Celsius but seems to be the latter- if that is so it would be about 2500 degrees Farenheit) to get one ton of helium 3. How much energy would that require for the extraction?

 

[jmdrake]

Thank you for the link.


So you have to extract 100 million tons of moon rock and heat it to 1400 degrees (can't tell if that is farenheit or celsius) to get one ton of helium 3. How much energy would that require for the extraction?

Here's a better article: http://fti.neep.wisc.edu/gallery/pdf/space_com063000.pdf It takes 1470 degrees Fahrenheit, 800 degrees Celsius.

A parabolic solar reflector on earth can get to 300 degrees C. That's 10 times the temperature of a hot summer day. Moon temperatures can get up to 123 degrees Celsius. So with a parabolic reflector you could theoretically reach the critical temperature with just solar power alone.

 

[BattleFlag1776]

One obvious problem with the concept will be the lunar shifting caused when weight of the products created are redistributed from the moon to the earth. This will then cause disruption of the earth's tide quickening global warming.

Uncle wins the gold star! Those monthly cycles occur for a reason.

 

[archangel689]

My understanding of the current SpaceX plan uses (Kerosine) RP1 and LOX for fuel. The plan seems to be that first stage will remain RP1 and LOX.

Using H3 for fuel will require a lot of development, In SpaceX's case, they have no experience with hydrogen. I really think they intend to go directly to mars without stopping.... possibly using two separate rockets. I do not see H3 being used until far in the future.

Just to give you an idea of how efficient that company is, consider that the LOX tank they are using for their rockets is a Saturn V LOX tank they bought from the us government for the price of scrap metal...lol. Government would have built a new tank from scratch to create jobs lol.

The complication right now is a reusable rocket, cross feed, launch escape system and the money to build a Saturn V Class Rocket--there is no customer that's going to pay for a rocket this size at this time.... Fuel is cheap as hell compared to the cost of the rocket.


http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=21923.0

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=26995.0

 

[eduardo89]

Uncle wins the gold star! Those monthly cycles occur for a reason.

i hate those monthly cycles...my gf gets so bitchy

 

[Cutlerzzz]

Serious question: Would the US government claim that the Moon is US soil?

I spent my 1000th post on an important topic, I see.