Seattle Plans $15 minimum wage

[2young2vote]

I used to live in Seattle. I also lived in Vancouver - same planet, different worlds. Seattle is a liberal shit-hole, completely out of tune with the vast majority of the state, which is conservative in the extreme. In typical fashion, they impose their progressive filth upon a population that has no interest in it.

Yes.



That is a bold assertion. What have you to back it up?

It means that prices going up in response to increased wages will have little impact on the largest income groups - the 50-100 thousand range - because those households making that kind of money are in the position to be able to spend more. The problem comes when prices are increased on those who cannot spend more, the ones who don't have much money to begin with. I'm not saying it won't have a negative impact, but I am saying that it won't be as large as it will be in other cities.



Do you think the people slinging fries at Burger King are making much more than minwage?

Not much more, but more.



This may actually be so, but that does not mean that the effects will be positive in Seattle. Minimum wage is another form of business tax, and ALL taxes lead to deadweight losses. It is impossible to avoid it. Taxation == theft == deadweight loss.

I agree.

As for "whitest", apparently you have not taken a drive along Ranier Avenue. Somewhere around I-90 you will find a very sizable black ghetto. Then there's "the blade", downtown - pretty non-white inhabitants there, too... just south of Pike St. Market, ca. 2nd Av.

Yes, I understand. But a few pockets of minorities throughout the city does not negate its whiteness. But that doesn't have much to do with the minimum wage, I only used it originally as a description of the city to explain its differences to other large cities. : http://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/4981415821/in/set-72157624812674967/

If Minimum wage were to be increased to $15 for detroit, for example, the impact would be much larger because of the already lower average household incomes. A person may spend 3% of their income on fast food in Seattle, whereas a person in detroit, who consumes just as much as the person in Seattle, may spend 10% of their income. An increase in prices for those earning larger amounts of money would have less effect on their ability to sustain their lifestyle than it would for those who are earning smaller amounts of money.

ok

 

[nobody's_hero]

Q: WTH are they thinking?

A: They are thinking they want to be re-elected for 2 more years, and they don't give a F$*# what kind of inflation they see in 3 years.

 

[tod evans]

I just read an article somewhere that said folks in Fla. were living on $11.00 a day...

How much are bus tickets?

 

[nobody's_hero]

Seattle is one of the whitest, highly educated, least violent major cities in the entire country. This will have little to no effect considering their cost of living is ridiculously high as it is. I doubt many people in the city are only making minimum wage, or even a couple dollars close to minimum wage. Here is an income distribution map of Seattle:

http://www.city-data.com/city/Seattle-Washington.html#mapOSM?mapOSM[zl]=11&mapOSM[c1]=47.614765&mapOSM[c2]=-122.327145&mapOSM=income3&mapOSM[fs]=false

The more red something is the poorer the population (you can change the opacity to see it better by clicking on options) . As you can see, a vast majority of the population make between 50-100 thousand per household as it is.

Now compare that to detroit (or any other large major city), a city with a slightly larger population:

http://www.city-data.com/income/income-Detroit-Michigan.html#mapOSM?mapOSM[zl]=11&mapOSM[c1]=42.352729999999994&mapOSM[c2]=-83.099275&mapOSM=3&mapOSM[fs]=false

The minimum wage is going to have a much larger effect on Detroit, Cleveland, Los Angelas, or any other major city with a large population of low income households than it is in Seattle, simply because of Seattle's already relatively wealthy population base.

Not to sound disrespectful, but I would like to assert that at one point, Detroit was one such 'relatively wealthy city' and it is due directly to progressive policies that it ended up as the slum-hole it is today. If Seattle wants to end up like Detroit, just make the minimum wage $30/hr and cut right to the chase. The end result is the same.

 

[osan]

This should yield some interesting results, hopefully. I'd like to see more real, current examples of what an increase in minimum wage would do current day in the US. It's easy to theorize behind a keyboard and make assumptions, which is why I'd like some hard evidence. Granted, if things remain the same or change for the better, excuses will be made as to why by people with agendas to push. Likewise, if it goes wrong, you'll get the same from the other side. Maybe if it happens in multiple states we'll have a good enough sample size.

Forget agendas and the assessments of others and look to your own. We have all the evidence we need, already.

Bear in mind that an economy the size of ours is not likely to be as linear as the relatively small one in Seattle. Furthermore, people these days tend to hold very short term views of things. Seattle raises minwage to $15, things start looking better and everyone says "see? We were right!". Those same people then crawl back under their rocks, never again to be seen or heard from when the longer term effects turn out to leave the region in worse shape than that in which it was prior to the raise in corporate taxes via minwage.

One thing you CANNOT escape is the deadweight loss caused by taxation. It has been thoroughly demonstrated to be deleterious over the longer term. If you are not familiar with the concept, I suggest you find yourself a proper macroeconomics text and start reading. The truth of it is prima facie, just as it is when I say that if I apply my katana to your arm, your arm is going to be severed from the rest of you. You require no proof of it because you know instinctively that it is so. Thus it is with deadweight loss, so get yourself reading... or not. Choice, of course, is always yours.

Deadweight losses provide less than zero benefit to an economy. Certain individuals may profit, mind you, but that is not the same as "the economy" at large. Those who profit have picked the pockets of the rest. Even the otherwise deluded Keynesian economists agree that deadweight losses place what is called a "drag" on the economy. The difference with them, however, is that they attempt to justify it by painting the loss as actually being a gain, which is an unvarnished lie. It is, without exception, the transfer of wealth from those who have earned it to those who have not. Period.

The "results" for which you appear to so eagerly wait are precisely what I described, above. The economy will lose while some undeserving, minor subset of the population profits at the expense of everyone else. It is in its very fabric a parasitic circumstance of theft and is, therefore, by its very definition immoral and utterly unjustifiable. You do not need to see "real world" results in order to understand why this is wrong. So my suggestion stands: learn some rudiments of macroeconomics and make sure you use the brain god gave you for something more than a hat-rack. I am supremely confident in your ability to do it. My only question is whether you have the will.

 

[JorgeStevenson]

ok

I'm reasonably sure that there is little inflationary impact when minimum wages are raised. I believe that quite a few studies have born that out.

Which makes sense. The current market price of the Cheesy Gordita Crunch is the amount that Taco Bell has determined brings the highest total gross profit. If Taco Bell were to raise the price from $2.49 to $3.49, it would make less gross profit than if it maintained the $2.49 price point - although they would make more profit per CGC sold, they would sell so few CGCs at that price point that their overall profit from the CGC would decrease even though the price increased. Consumers have determined that the CGC is worth $2.49.

So, when you increase the minimum wage, it's not carte blanche to raise the price of the CGC. Consumers still see a product that to them is worth $2.49, and they generally aren't going to buy more just because they feel sorry that the franchise owner is legally required to give his work force a 70% raise ($9.10 -> $15, not to mention giving all other employees a similar bump to keep them slotted at higher rates than the min wage guys). If Taco Bell could have been charging $3.49 for that CGC, it would have been doing it all along. It wouldn't have waited for its costs to increase.

Faced with a product that is worth $2.49 and costs that have increased by 70%, with little hope of being able to raise the price and maintain a strong gross profit, businesses would be forced to cut costs. Whether that means increased automation, outsourcing, shifting hours from bad employees to good ones, or outright firing employees who aren't worth their new salaries - these are the decisions that are within the business owner's control. In general, I would think that raising the price is largely out of its hands - the consumers have the final say on prices, and for the most part they have already spoken.

I personally believe that a CGC is worth $10. But that just means I go to Taco Bell a lot.

 

[parocks]

I'm reasonably sure that there is little inflationary impact when minimum wages are raised. I believe that quite a few studies have born that out.

Which makes sense. The current market price of the Cheesy Gordita Crunch is the amount that Taco Bell has determined brings the highest total gross profit. If Taco Bell were to raise the price from $2.49 to $3.49, it would make less gross profit than if it maintained the $2.49 price point - although they would make more profit per CGC sold, they would sell so few CGCs at that price point that their overall profit from the CGC would decrease even though the price increased. Consumers have determined that the CGC is worth $2.49.

So, when you increase the minimum wage, it's not carte blanche to raise the price of the CGC. Consumers still see a product that to them is worth $2.49, and they generally aren't going to buy more just because they feel sorry that the franchise owner is legally required to give his work force a 70% raise ($9.10 -> $15, not to mention giving all other employees a similar bump to keep them slotted at higher rates than the min wage guys). If Taco Bell could have been charging $3.49 for that CGC, it would have been doing it all along. It wouldn't have waited for its costs to increase.

Faced with a product that is worth $2.49 and costs that have increased by 70%, with little hope of being able to raise the price and maintain a strong gross profit, businesses would be forced to cut costs. Whether that means increased automation, outsourcing, shifting hours from bad employees to good ones, or outright firing employees who aren't worth their new salaries - these are the decisions that are within the business owner's control. In general, I would think that raising the price is largely out of its hands - the consumers have the final say on prices, and for the most part they have already spoken.

I personally believe that a CGC is worth $10. But that just means I go to Taco Bell a lot.

I generally agree with what you're saying. We don't live in a free market. Economic theories based on the assumption that we live in a free market are wrong. You're referring to oligopoly and monopoly pricing. In a free market, if Taco Bell's prices are even a penny too high, Taco Bell would lose business. The Cheesy Cordita Crunch is not a commodity. Free markets deal with commodities.

A rise in the minimum wage would tend to be inflationary, but not anywhere near as much as people think. Are people going to spend a dollar in gas to save a nickel on fast food? No.

 

[parocks]

Not to sound disrespectful, but I would like to assert that at one point, Detroit was one such 'relatively wealthy city' and it is due directly to progressive policies that it ended up as the slum-hole it is today. If Seattle wants to end up like Detroit, just make the minimum wage $30/hr and cut right to the chase. The end result is the same.

Detroit did not fall apart because of minimum wage. There are a ton of other things. A lot of local governments have problems caused by Government pensions. I'm interested to see what happens with this min wage hike. Of course, by the time the min wage gets to $15 an hour, the min wage will have gone up everywhere else. $15 will likely be more, but not as much more as it is now.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

It sure as heck won't be good for the economy, but phasing in a $6 increase over.....what, 10 years?....means it's not going to be cataclysmic either. I'm not defending it, not a bit. There are other quite significant ramifications that will be seen in the future as this develops. However, I do want to caution people that predicting an economic cataclysm that will not ultimately happen (phasing this thing in slowly over a decade will still lead to job losses, but it will be effectively 'invisible' since on that timeframe it can be done with turnover instead of layoffs.)

Point being, predicting an economic disaster around an event where there will be no real (visible) economic disaster, will be perceived as crying wolf, and it simply will not help our cause.

 

[TruckinMike]

//

 

[Keith and stuff]

This makes no sense. Clearly the mayor isn't thinking about the people or businesses in the community.

New Hampshire and Louisiana don't have general minimum wages.
The unemployment rates in NH and LA are 4.5%

Washington, on the other hand, has a unemployment rate of 6.3%, making it the 28th - worse than average.

Oregon has the 2nd highest minimum wage? It's unemployment rate is a very high 6.9%! That makes it 1 of the 10 worst states in the nation.

 

[bunklocoempire]

In order to raise mine and everyone else's standard of living, I've been voluntarily paying twice as much for all the goods and services I use.

This gives the goods and services suppliers more money to pay their employees.

Everyone wins. -Better make it a law.

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

Minimum wage? Get ready for a good swift kick in the ass... everything is directly or systemically hit by energy costs Take the time to watch it all.

 

[UWDude]

This makes no sense. Clearly the mayor isn't thinking about the people or businesses in the community.

New Hampshire and Louisiana don't have general minimum wages.
The unemployment rates in NH and LA are 4.5%

Washington, on the other hand, has a unemployment rate of 6.3%, making it the 28th - worse than average.

Oregon has the 2nd highest minimum wage? It's unemployment rate is a very high 6.9%! That makes it 1 of the 10 worst states in the nation.

WA has the highest minimum wage. By your logic, it should have the highest unemployment.
Many states have federal min wage.... ..and the highest of unemployment rates.

You are cherry picking your stats.

I used to live in Seattle. I also lived in Vancouver - same planet, different worlds. Seattle is a liberal shit-hole, completely out of tune with the vast majority of the state, which is conservative in the extreme. In typical fashion, they impose their progressive filth upon a population that has no interest in it.

You know what else the left and right have in common?
Both want to destroy their nation.
And both unwittingly will.

LoL

 

[cindy25]

it would only effect the fast food places near the city line. the others will just raise their prices and pass it on

 

[unknown]

Well that ought to succeed in shutting down the Seattle fast food industry.

And when small business owners pay people under the table (ie less than minimum wage) in an effort to survive, they'll be arrested and charged with "defrauding the US government".

Cant afford to stay in business if you pay people on the books. Youre hunted down by the IRS if you pay people off the books.

Youre f@@ked either way...

 

[Lafayette]

I wish they wouldn't have ass it. $15 over 4 years? Come on, make it $20 and do it tomorrow! For the children!

 

[Lucille]

SEATTLE’S MINIMUM WAGE CRASH: $15 to ZERO! Profits Tumble!
http://www.theburningplatform.com/2014/12/03/seattles-minimum-wage-crash-15-to-zero-profits-tumble/

Seattle, Washington, one of the strongest remaining bastions of liberal philosophy left in the country, passed a phased-in $15 minimum wage law earlier this year. The highest minimum wage in the country. The vote was unanimous and the throng outside cheered, but for many this is a loss from which they will never recover. It is a blow to the profitability of businesses that they just can’t take.

Even the left-leaning Seattle Times expressed concern wondering if Seattle had indeed “gone too far.”

According to the National Review Hotline, Kathrina Tugadi owner of Seattle’s El Norte Lounge, no longer hires musicians for her restaurant, she said she can’t justify expenses that don’t directly “add to the bottom line.” And, she says, hours will have to be cut: El Norte Lounge plans to stop serving lunch and only serve dinner.

“I am concerned about my business and others in the community, but it isn’t just about any one business. It’s about how the entire economic community,” she said. El Norte may be unable to remain open once the ordinance is fully in effect, she said. Even Pagliacci Pizza, a Seattle-area pizza chain, is moving its call center and some of its production facilities outside the city. That’s a lot of job loss, a lot of new people with a new wage of ZERO.
[...]
In Seattle, 42 percent of surveyed employers were “very likely” to reduce the number of employees per shift or overall staffing levels as a direct consequence of the law. Similarly, 44 percent reported that they were “very likely” to scale back on employees’ hours to help offset the increased cost of the law. That’s particularly bad news for the Seattle metro area, where the unemployment rate for 16- to 19-year-olds is already more than 30 percent — due in part to Washington state’s already-high minimum wage.

Perhaps most concerning about the $15 proposal is that some businesses anticipated going beyond an increase in prices or a reduction in staffing levels. More than 43 percent of respondents said it was “very likely” they would limit future expansion in Seattle in response to the law. One in seven respondents is even “very likely” to close a current location in the city limits.

Yes, it it always sounds good to give people more free stuff, but once again, everything has a price. I asked a group of sixth graders what they would do. It only took them a few minutes to determine that their only choices were to; fire some employees, raise prices, or go out of business. They also concluded that people won’t come to your store if you charge too much. If sixth graders grasp this, what is wrong with our politicians?

Seattle is the first city in the country to pass a $15 minimum wage. Survey results suggested it will be the first city to find out why it was such a bad idea.

 

[juleswin]

This is going to be a boon for Seattle when all the new $15/hr workers starting buying back into the businesses that just increased their wages. They will literally get their monies back in exchange for some goods and services. How could anything go wrong?

 

[willwash]

In 1964 the minimum wage was $1.25/hr. (5) 90% Silver Quarters. Today those (5) Silver Quarters have a value of $3.50/ea.

5 x $3.50 = $17.50/hr OR $2.50/hr MORE than what they're requesting as a minimum wage...

What they should do is demand the Fed Govt to start re-minting the 90% Silver Quarters to which the employees would be paid with. Then employers could go back to paying $1.25/hr with silver quarters and WA unemployment would plunge, wealth/happiness would rise dramatically.

These socialists are extremely dumb.

Is that $3.50 just based on the weight of the silver content or are you counting numismatic value too?