SCOTUS: Online/Internet shoppers can be forced (legally separated) to pay sales tax

Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote that the previous decisions were flawed.

"Each year the physical presence rule against robbing banks becomes further removed from economic reality and results in significant revenue losses to the States bank robbers. [...]," he wrote [...]

Fixed.

Just how do you "lose" something you didn't have to begin with?

(File in same drawer as "an increase in spending is a spending 'cut' if the increase is not as large as some other previously-only-notional-and-now-completely-irrelevant number" ...)
 
You would be liable for use tax in your state of residence, although it might be very difficult for the state to enforce the liability.

So far as this tax applies to non-privileged business activities, the ‘use tax’ is not constitutional, for states possess no sovereign power to control its residents as to their activities or arrangements occurring or taking place external to its borders (and frankly have no justifiable business seeking the business or sales records of foreign entities that its residents or visitors are party to)—e.g., imagine the utter lunacy of establishing a “vacation tax” upon residents that seek their fun and relaxation out of state.

The prohibition on taxing "imports" without Congressional approval found in I.10.2 applies only to shipments from a foreign country, not those from other States.

1. This also pertains to establishing treaties, alliances, and entering into agreements or compacts with other states.
2. While, true concerning what are imports and exports, it is indicative that states are not to meddle in the affairs of foreign entities, including other states.
3. This is even further substantiated by the restriction on states from laying tonnage duties for the use of state operated ports.

They have the authority to impose use taxes upon their residents, but it's much easier to require out-of-state sellers to collect sales tax.

No, no they do not. The tax is merely a runaround machination devised by progressive-minded control freaks. In fact its name is very telling, the ‘use tax’ is a tax upon items brought into the state after having been purchased outside of the state by its residents or visitors, so as to effect a “level” selling field for the merchants within the state (regardless if the items purchased are even available intrastate.) This tax is based on the faulty notion that governments are to be operated as for-profit corporations, which must continuously exceed financial projections. However, the sole basis of taxation is to provide revenue to respective government entities for the better good and protection of the whole public (as opposed to specific individuals and groups), not to “level” the field between competing states and the merchants thereof (in fact government is not obliged to shield business ventures of any kind), make the bottom line black, or punish, restrict, or encourage individual choice or behaviors, and the like (e.g., such as excessive taxes on tobacco, firearms, and fuel products.)

But they provide them with a customer base and, according to the courts, the privilege to do business within their respective jurisdictions. And taxation without representation happens all the time -- taxes are imposed on minors, estates, trusts, and corporations, none of whom can vote.

Those examples hardly qualify as taxation without representation as it is meant.

A State cannot discriminate against interstate commerce. Any increased sales tax rate would have to also apply to in-state sales.

State sales taxes are in-state sales as defined by such form of taxation; but sure they could, they would simply color it under a different name or legal theory/justification (just like states can prohibit commerce all together such fluoride removing water filters, mail-order ammunition, large capacity magazines, hooch, etc.), further still, individual states set their own tax rates, so they could work in cooperation with each other depending on the given pros and cons of their geography and commercial atmosphere; similarly to how each county sets their own sales tax rate—which will affect other serious concerns with this form of proposed taxation.

Also, this is a method of double taxation, for the consumer is going to very likely be taxed on the same act by both their state of residence and the state of purchase, and further may have to additionally pay service fees, shipping fees, insurance, etc.

So effectively, conglomerations and monopolies are going to become motivated to setup operations in states with no (or very little) sales taxes, creating a Delaware corporation effect.
 
Really, it is a great victory to be twice taxed for the same event? Say, let's just get the federal government in on this too, it can go from being a great victory to being a monumentally astonishing amazing victory. Seriously, WTF!
 
Gotta love that selling used stuff on ebay will now make me pay tax on it. Double theft!

This is going to get messy fast for an average small online seller to figure out state and local taxes. Large retailers must be loving this

Yes
 
So far as this tax applies to non-privileged business activities, the ‘use tax’ is not constitutional

A state's authority to tax its citizens doesn't depend on their engaging in privileged activity.

While, true concerning what are imports and exports, it is indicative that states are not to meddle in the affairs of foreign entities, including other states.

It's not meddling when the states enter into the sales tax agreement voluntarily.

Also, this is a method of double taxation, for the consumer is going to very likely be taxed on the same act by both their state of residence and the state of purchase

Hopelessly wrong. If you pay sales tax in the state in which you made the purchase, you won't owe use tax when you bring it back to your home state. If you didn't pay sales tax, however (because sales tax isn't normally charged on items that are shipped out of state immediately after purchase), you will.

Really, it is a great victory to be twice taxed for the same event? Say, let's just get the federal government in on this too, it can go from being a great victory to being a monumentally astonishing amazing victory. Seriously, WTF!

States and the federal government tax the same thing all the time, especially in those states (such as California) that have their own income tax.
 
A state's authority to tax its citizens doesn't depend on their engaging in privileged activity.

Not exactly, such authority is wholly dependent upon context (e.g., California recognizes within its state constitution that the U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of the land and is thusly obliged to serve according to its erudite maxims), specifically, as to the inherent rights of individuals and their pursuit of life, liberty and happiness; there are very concerning ethical considerations due to the people being served by their just form of republican government.

* Government officials don't just get to do whatever the hell they wish, simply because they were "elected" or because they believe themselves to be self-entitled from their purchasing of a juris doctor or political science degree from whatever overpriced and overvalued socialistic university.

It's not meddling when the states enter into the sales tax agreement voluntarily.

Again, the federal constitution fairly clearly besets the states from doing such; else, we are no longer 50-sovereign states, but are just one large bloc-continent with a national government and its states existing in name only with borders, flags, seals, etc., which are merely ceremonial and nothing more (see how well this worked out for the Soviet Socialist Republics of Russia.)

Hopelessly wrong. If you pay sales tax in the state in which you made the purchase, you won't owe use tax when you bring it back to your home state. If you didn't pay sales tax, however (because sales tax isn't normally charged on items that are shipped out of state immediately after purchase), you will.

No, that is not actually true (see below); regardless, it is the case in the most practical sense, as the intention of this is all is to collect taxes on Internet purchases, which includes taxes due to the state the purchases are made in--so the consumer is being doubly taxed, while the seller is effectively obliged to do work for both a state they have no direct association with in addition to the state they are operating from within.

You must pay California use tax when you purchase out-of-state items by telephone, Internet, mail, or in person and both of the following apply:

  • The seller does not collect California sales or use tax.
  • You use, give away, store, or consume the item in this state.
www.ftb.ca.gov/individuals/use-tax.shtml

States and the federal government tax the same thing all the time, especially in those states (such as California) that have their own income tax.

Oh thank you for proving my point; however (notwithstanding the gross misapplication of individual income taxes), these are from distinct levels of government, nonetheless, the federal government holds supremacy on the matter, so states should not be levying taxes upon that which is already being taxed elsewhere.

* Noting too that you are being taxed on a portion of money that was taxed and collected by another government and was never at any time in possession or control of the taxpayer and was of zero realized benefit to that taxpayer other than to owe taxes on it. E.g., if a person makes $75,000 a year, they are paying taxes on that whole sum to both the IRS and FTB, even though $25,000 of it was turned over to the IRS and $5,000 to the FTB, for example (these figures are not based on any actual tax percentages, just as a hypothetical.)
 
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Will this bring Circuit CIty and Blockbuster back? Can the tax be retro-active? Could state law rule that their current laws on the books include websites that don't have a physical presence even when the words don't explicitly say so?
 
.... So next time I buy a $2500 generator online, they'll charge me $99 + Tax, and $2400 for shipping and handling?
 
No, that is not actually true (see below); regardless, it is the case in the most practical sense, as the intention of this is all is to collect taxes on Internet purchases, which includes taxes due to the state the purchases are made in--so the consumer is being doubly taxed, while the seller is effectively obliged to do work for both a state they have no direct association with in addition to the state they are operating from within.

You must pay California use tax when you purchase out-of-state items by telephone, Internet, mail, or in person and both of the following apply:

The seller does not collect California sales or use tax.
You use, give away, store, or consume the item in this state.

You neglected to read further and note how the use tax is calculated. Any sales tax paid to the state in which the purchase is made is subtracted from the use tax payable to California. There is no double tax because you will never pay more than the use tax you would owe if no sales tax had ever been collected by the seller.
 
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You neglected to read further and note how the use tax is calculated. Any sales tax paid to the state in which the purchase is made is subtracted from the use tax payable to California. There is no double tax because you will never pay more than the use tax you would owe if no sales tax had ever been collected by the seller.

Regardless, you are in fact being double-taxed, you are just being permitted to deduct the lesser amount, if applicable--which is a stipulation that could be amended at any time.

Use the Tax Lookup Table... "File or Page Not Found" There is the California fuck-tard bureaucrats for ya! (Guess they are all too busy watching gay porn in their gender neutral restrooms to do any actual work.)
 
Fixed.

Just how do you "lose" something you didn't have to begin with?

(File in same drawer as "an increase in spending is a spending 'cut' if the increase is not as large as some other previously-only-notional-and-now-completely-irrelevant number" ...)


"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Occam's Banana again."
 
Mi9 Retail, a leading global supplier of omni-channel retail software, today announced that its e-commerce solution is ready to support the legislative changes determined by the United States Supreme Court ruling, South Dakota v. Wayfair, on tax compliance requirements for online retailers. Mi9 Retail business partner Avalara delivers tax compliant solutions integrated with Mi9 e-Commerce that allow retailers to manage compliance in the face of ever-changing tax regulations. The Mi9 e-commerce solution also natively supports the tax parameters needed for online merchants when the new ruling is enforced.

More at: http://markets.businessinsider.com/...s-who-must-now-collect-sales-taxes-1027331038
 
This South Dakota vs Wayfair decision is terribly anti- progress, anti-prosperity, anti-consumer.

On the practical side, it increases the costs of providing goods to consumers. Just having to keep track of continuously changing sales tax laws of fifty separate states plus territories. Not merely varying rates, but also which goods the taxes apply to, many with differing rates for different goods. For instance Texas has one sales tax rate for ordinary deodorant and a different rate for anti-perspirant. Amongst the various jurisdictions, there is a flood of different product categories with varying rates – edible vs non-edible, large ticket, small ticket. Consumables, clothing vs books, containing certain ingredients for without, large appliances vs, household, and so forth.


Then there is also keeping track of all the separate thresholds. South Dakota set a threshold of $100,000 or 200 transaction. Another might set the threshold at 50 transaction, while another at $250,0000 or 500 transaction.


And there is the question of how the product is purchase. What if a Citizen from New York visits California and purchases an item there and has it shipped back to New York. It is likewise the purchase of an out of state product delivered to New York. How is the purchase any Are the California business now to keep tract of tax laws of every other jurisdiction if they offer shipping for their in person customers. What if the customer order by telephone? It is no different then internet. What if the New York Resident is in New Jersey or even Mexico at the time he places the internet order with the California business? Must the taxes be withheld?


Then there is also how the state categorizes a sale “in the state”. For instance Wisconsin may require taxing all sales where the billing address is in the state. Minnesota may tax all sales where the product is shipped to an address in the state. And what if consumer in in Wisconsin orders a gift from a seller in California to ship to her aunt in Minnesota. Now the poor business has to withhold and file taxes for both Wisconsin and Minnesota.


And the 50 states is just the beginning. Every municipality, county or other public incorporation that has a sales tax will want its piece of the racket too. The Supreme Court’s rational for allowing this monstrosity applies equally to every municipal or local sales tax. After all, “Each year the physical presence rule becomes further removed from economic reality and results in significant revenue losses to the [Municipalities].” These local governments are being “deprived” of their cut of the sales tax racket by the You think they are going to want to be left out of this bonanza. Some state will be the first to require collection of the local sales taxes as well, and others will follow. Now instead of keeping tract 50+ continuously changing tax jurisdictions, you’ll have to keep tract of and act as collection goon for thousands of different tax jurisdiction, with varying rates for a plethora of different products.


And the business does not get paid to do all this collection racket, and accounting, and risk, and continuous legal upkeep for these rackets. The business must bear all the costs imposed y these obligations. The Amazons and Wal-Marts will certainly be able to created special accounting and legal departments and absorb the additional overhead. But many small, medium and less big businesses will be kept at bay by the increased costs, complexities, and risk.


The incentive will be to move all online retailing overseas. We could see the explosion of online retail all going to China. Sure there will be customs tax on anything requiring it. But that at least is only one jurisdiction to keep track of. Plus that is paid by the recipient. The retailer need not keep track of or collect it. It’s just one more nail in the coffin of US competitiveness and trade.


And there are serious legal fallacies in the Curt’s decision as well. First, the Court completely overturned long standing well-established precedent.


What basis does a state have over some business with no presence in that state? Just because some consumer in the state decides to buy from a business in another state? If anything, the state could requires its own residents to keep track of and pay sales tax on goods they buy elsewhere.


If a business is in California or Texas and has no physical presence in South Dakota, is South Dakota to be able to revoke its Texas or California business license. Will South Dakota send its revenue enforcement officers to go and arrest business officer in Texas or California? Shut down their business in other states? Where does South Dakota get jurisdiction to impose laws and enforcement inside other sovereign states?


P.S. – TAXATION IS THEFT!
 
The Supreme Court created the physical presence test to begin with, and today's opinion simply undoes what the Court did decades ago.

Indeed. That's the way I see it. This ruling pretty much puts us back where we started.

My biggest concern is that Congress is now going to want to put their grubby hands all over laws to make the Fed government come up with a standardized national sales tax. I don't want to pay the same thing as California in sales tax here in Georgia. But to make it fair, it would have to be the same. (which I'm sure our state level critters at the GA general assembly would LOVE). I'm sure the Feds would want their cut of the sales tax, too, for their troubles.:rolleyes:
 
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More $$s for States but this is going to hurt many small businesses online particularly.

Hmm. Maybe. I would think they are also hurt by having a physical presence and paying taxes while a huge online company like Amazon can offer the same goods cheaper since they don't have to factor sales tax. People walk in your store, look at an item, and say, "Hmm. I can get that a lot cheaper online." And they walk out without buying anything (from you). Running a brick and mortar store these days is like 'trying it before buying it' and they ain't buying from you.

Kind of like tariffs in a way. If I want to try to sell to you, I get punched in the face. But if you want to sell to me, you get a pat on the back. One of us is gonna lose the will to run a business, and it's probably gonna be the one who keeps getting punched in the face. Ideally, no one should be getting punches to the face or pats on the back and the best business would win.
 
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