Scott Walker not looking for rape or incest exemptions in Wisconsin 20-week abortion ban

[Christian Liberty]

Incorrect. It is philosophically consistent with keeping the gov't out of our personal business. The easy road (aka gov't involvement) is the wrong one, change hearts and minds. Abortion, like drug use and prostitution, have been around for thousands of years--all may be a pox on humanity, but nothing will change if your go-to is government force.

Even if we use the libertarian NAP as the standard (i'm not a libertarian, not by the definition of this forum) abortion isn't comparable to drugs or prostitution. Its more comparable to cutting up a five year old with a knife. People who do that should be put to death.

Our government kills indiscriminately--is this who you want to enforce morality?

No. I want our entire government replaced with Bible-believing Christians, the myth of secular humanism eliminated from our courts, scripture restored as the standard for our courts, the standard of law being based directly on Biblical text, belief in the same being the standard for citizenship, and complete elimimination of probably 95% of our government's functions.

And the people at the top of the chain of our pagan leadership nuremberg trialed and executed.

 

[hells_unicorn]

You cant be morally opposed to abortion without wanting to ban it unless you are a strict pacifist. But if you are a strict-NAP adherent, the only way you can say that abortion should be legal is if you don't believe its murder. People who say "Abortion is murder but it should be legal" are being logically absurd.

This is actually pretty close to how Hillary Clinton sells her views on abortion. The famed "safe, legal and rare" quote is extremely counter-intuitive at best, as things that are both safe and legal tend to be pretty plentiful.

 

[Christian Liberty]

This is actually pretty close to how Hillary Clinton sells her views on abortion. The famed "safe, legal and rare" quote is extremely counter-intuitive at best, as things that are both safe and legal tend to be pretty plentiful.

Yeah, but let's imagine it were possible. It still wouldn't actually make sense as a position, would it?

I don't expect consistency from Clinton, she's a political whore. I do think it might be worth my time to try to convince people here, as they generally care about consistency to their own logic (I don't adhere to anarcho-capitalism or the NAP anymore, but I'm willing to engage based on that logic because my argument still works.)

 

[amy31416]

Even if we use the libertarian NAP as the standard (i'm not a libertarian, not by the definition of this forum) abortion isn't comparable to drugs or prostitution. Its more comparable to cutting up a five year old with a knife. People who do that should be put to death.


No. I want our entire government replaced with Bible-believing Christians, the myth of secular humanism eliminated from our courts, scripture restored as the standard for our courts, the standard of law being based directly on Biblical text, belief in the same being the standard for citizenship, and complete elimimination of probably 95% of our government's functions.

And the people at the top of the chain of our pagan leadership nuremberg trialed and executed.

When we get our gov't replaced with truly ethical people, I'm on board--until then, absolutely not. I'm not a bible believer, so take that for what it's worth to you. I will say that it was a Christian (Ron Paul), who reinforced my position on the matter, but as long as we have a bunch of creeps as "leaders," I will never agree with making anything illegal.

Don't you see where this could go terribly wrong? Executing women who've had miscarriages? Forced vaginal exams? Angry men who'd use the state to execute a woman? And the gov't should play God and end people's lives based on what you think is right?

No thanks. I want them as far away and as uninvolved as possible in my life. Leave us alone. I will teach my daughter well, if you want the state to do that, then you might be too far gone.

 

[hells_unicorn]

Yeah, but let's imagine it were possible. It still wouldn't actually make sense as a position, would it?

I don't expect consistency from Clinton, she's a political whore. I do think it might be worth my time to try to convince people here, as they generally care about consistency to their own logic (I don't adhere to anarcho-capitalism or the NAP anymore, but I'm willing to engage based on that logic because my argument still works.)

No it wouldn't, but that would never stop a seasoned liar from continuing to hone her craft.

Even in my early days supporting Ron Paul, I was always a trustee of some degree of Paleo-conservatism mixed with Libertarianism, so I didn't view the NAP as a binding rule but more of a general guideline wherever it could be applied. But as I've become more heavily engrossed in Covenant and Reformed Theology, both anarcho-capitalism and the NAP have become less important to me, though I don't think aggression is ever a good thing, though it can prove inevitable and thus a necessary evil.

 

[P3ter_Griffin]

Scott Walker doesn't do anything his overlords don't tell him to do. I'm guessing this poll tested well in Iowa.

 

[Christian Liberty]

When we get our gov't replaced with truly ethical people, I'm on board--until then, absolutely not. I'm not a bible believer, so take that for what it's worth to you. I will say that it was a Christian (Ron Paul), who reinforced my position on the matter, but as long as we have a bunch of creeps as "leaders," I will never agree with making anything illegal.

Ron Paul is for making abortion illegal.

I understand your point, but if infanticide was legal, we'd celebrate its ban regardless of who was doing it. And rightly so. Its the same thing.

Don't you see where this could go terribly wrong? Executing women who've had miscarriages? Forced vaginal exams? Angry men who'd use the state to execute a woman? And the gov't should play God and end people's lives based on what you think is right?

I don't think government would be playing God by enforcing the law of God. THat said, our modern government is a beheamoth and does like to play God so the abuses you mention could easily happen.

No thanks. I want them as far away and as uninvolved as possible in my life. Leave us alone. I will teach my daughter well, if you want the state to do that, then you might be too far gone.

Nope, I want you to teach your daughter. Public schools are satanic and the Bible nowhere gives government authority to run them.

 

[Christian Liberty]

No it wouldn't, but that would never stop a seasoned liar from continuing to hone her craft.

Even in my early days supporting Ron Paul, I was always a trustee of some degree of Paleo-conservatism mixed with Libertarianism, so I didn't view the NAP as a binding rule but more of a general guideline wherever it could be applied. But as I've become more heavily engrossed in Covenant and Reformed Theology, both anarcho-capitalism and the NAP have become less important to me, though I don't think aggression is ever a good thing, though it can prove inevitable and thus a necessary evil.

I'd be careful about using pragmatic arguments. Look at the evangelical right today. They have sold their souls (metaphorically) in their politics.

I guess it depends on how you define "aggression." By the technical ancap argument, Biblical law supports some aggression. Biblical law is my yardstick.

 

[RonPaulMall]

Republicans should stay away from the abortion issue. What do they care if Democrats abort their kids? From an electoral standpoint, abortion is a godsend for the GOP and the Liberty Movement. If it were abolished the net result would just be a bunch more Big Government voters.

For Walker's sake, he better hope the Legislature inserts those exceptions because it would hurt him in the general election if they didn't. If he's as smart a politician as I think he is, he'll publicly say he doesn't care (to court the religious right in Iowa) while privately arm twisting his allies in the legislature to make sure the language is put in.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Republicans should stay away from the abortion issue. What do they care if Democrats abort their kids?

Because the lives of 50 million children is more important than winning a stupid election?

Do you people really think that God in Heaven will ever bring our nation revival and freedom if our way of getting it is "oh, let the welfare queens just butcher their kids".

This is repulsive and disgusting. Bryan should be ashamed that it exists on his site.

 

[tod evans]

Because the lives of 50 million children is more important than winning a stupid election?

Do you people really think that God in Heaven will ever bring our nation revival and freedom if our way of getting it is "oh, let the welfare queens just butcher their kids".

This is repulsive and disgusting. Bryan should be ashamed that it exists on his site.

Who are you to tell another man what should or should not shame him?

This is a childish attempt at manipulation and you should know better FF.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Who are you to tell another man what should or should not shame him?

This is a childish attempt at manipulation and you should know better FF.

If someone promoted the murder of more people than even Hitler or Stalin was capable of as a means of attaining political liberty on a site that I owned, I would ban them instantly. While people should have the legal right to say such things, there should be nothing but discouragement for those that decide to do so.

But, of course, its up to Bryan.

 

[tod evans]

If someone promoted the murder of more people than even Hitler or Stalin was capable of as a means of attaining political liberty on a site that I owned, I would ban them instantly. While people should have the legal right to say such things, there should be nothing but discouragement for those that decide to do so.

But, of course, its up to Bryan.

Then discourage away.

That's the beauty of Bryans site here, everybody is free to voice their opinion whether it's popular or not.

Freedom's messy business.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Then discourage away.

That's the beauty of Bryans site here, everybody is free to voice their opinion whether it's popular or not.

Freedom's messy business.

I would +rep this if I was able to. Good post.

 

[amy31416]

Ron Paul is for making abortion illegal.

I understand your point, but if infanticide was legal, we'd celebrate its ban regardless of who was doing it. And rightly so. Its the same thing.



I don't think government would be playing God by enforcing the law of God. THat said, our modern government is a beheamoth and does like to play God so the abuses you mention could easily happen.



Nope, I want you to teach your daughter. Public schools are satanic and the Bible nowhere gives government authority to run them.

We agree on everything but getting the gov't involved, I can come close to agreeing with that. I don't like the notion of anyone thinking that I have to fall in lock-step with Ron Paul though, just because I was a supporter of his presidential aspiratiions.

 

[luctor-et-emergo]

People who do that should be put to death.

By who ?

 

[ChaosControl]

Good, the only exception in my opinion should be the life of the mother. (Or of course if the child will die even if born).
I know that isn't a popular position, but I think it is the most consistent. Why should the circumstances of how the pregnancy originate relate to whether killing the child is acceptable or not? Now however if the mother will die if she goes through with the pregnancy, then I think there room for a choice to be made.

I can understand if you fully think an unborn child isn't a child how you could be "pro-choice", although I don't understand how anyone could think that you just suddenly become a child at some magical date. The people who acknowledge an unborn child is indeed a child, or who are personally opposed to abortion, and still say it should be legal just completely baffle me. Hey lets make all murder legal too, cause who are you to interfere with someone's right to kill someone else?

But the life of the mother exception would be like killing someone in self defense, which is reasonable.

 

[Christian Liberty]

We agree on everything but getting the gov't involved, I can come close to agreeing with that. I don't like the notion of anyone thinking that I have to fall in lock-step with Ron Paul though, just because I was a supporter of his presidential aspiratiions.

I don't think you "have to fall in lock-step with Ron Paul". I don't either. I'm a theonomist and not a libertarian, so I probably differ from him more than you do.

My point is about logical consistency, not your disagreement with Ron Paul. My point is that if abortion is murder, and murder should be banned, then it logically follows that abortion should be banned.

By who ?

The State.

 

[tod evans]

I don't think you "have to fall in lock-step with Ron Paul". I don't either. I'm a theonomist and not a libertarian, so I probably differ from him more than you do.

My point is about logical consistency, not your disagreement with Ron Paul. My point is that if abortion is murder, and murder should be banned, then it logically follows that abortion should be banned.



The State.

If, and I use "if" on purpose because you obviously haven't thought this through, you want to apply the states powers regarding murder to abortion then start by addressing corpus delicti.

There are many other facets that must be explored but I figured the big obvious one would be a good springboard.

 

[osan]

It should be 0 weeks. And a mandatory death penalty for any offense.

Oh yeah, THAT'S the liberty solution.

Perhaps there should be a death penalty for egregiously stupid opinions?