Santorum v Paul- Iran war debate coming

Gingrich and Huntsman, too. Romney maybe to a lesser extent, but they're all gonna gang-jump him.


yeah, my gut says Romney (regardless of whether it is the right move) is preparing for the general at this point and is NOT going to attack anyone, unless it is absolutely neccessary. Now, if Ron actually challenges him in some primaries and Romney is actually losing steam.... then we'll get attacked. If we would have won Iowa and eroded Romney's lead in NH, THEN we'd be getting attacked right now.
 
I wonder why Russia or China doesn't just sell some nukes to Iran to take the issue (of Iran trying to get nukes) off the table?
 
There is a difference between a movement and a campaign. Paul has a serious chance at winning, if he treats it as a campaign. That doesn't have mean he has to give up on the movement.

Saying he will "fight constitutional wars" and downplaying the Iranian threat is not a good campaign move. It just won't win any votes. He can and should frame the same answer in a way that projects strength and defense.

There is a huge difference in psyche between these two statements

1. "I'll fight wars constitutionally, getting congressional approval, when there is an imminent threat to the nation. Currently, Iran is not a threat because of X,Y,Z."
2. "If Iran posed an imminent danger to the United States I'll go to Congress with a declaration of War, and use the strength of this nation to make sure Iran would never pose another threat to the country".

Both statements say essentially the same thing, but the impacts to voters is tremendously different. Downplay the lack of Iranian threat, and play up the response if they become a threat. Don't answer what a threat is (and here I agree with the don't respond to "specific scenarios").

This isn't class. People believe Iran is a threat even when they aren't. People wont' respond to Paul lecturing on why Iran isn't currently a threat, but they'll respond to him saying he'll fight them when they do become a threat (which fortunately will most likely be never).

They don't say the same things. The second one gives legitimacy to the question of Iran even being a threat.

Regardless, though, can you tell me how you know one is better than the other? What qualifies you to make these claims?
 
He should keep doing what he's doing. He has said, many times, that he would fight a Constitutional war where danger to our national security was imminent. However, he shouldn't entertain specific scenarios of Iran actually getting a nuke and instead keep on fighting that whole perception by telling people there is no way they could be a threat to us and that there is no evidence they even have a weapon.

Many people here don't like it and think he should entertain those ideas, but the truth needs to be told.

My issue with that is it will seem as a question dodge.

Again the reason that question would/could be asked is to find out if he will "protect" us from a threat (to enforce the narrative that he is weak on defense)– yes WE know Dr. Paul will protect us from a threat - but the message pushed in the MSM is he won't.

A question based on a hypothetical about Iran, while outlandish (because all the evidence points to them not acquiring a weapon), is an opportunity to smash this perception.

The goal of the debates is to educate on your positions and control how you're perceived.

I think Dr. Paul can both educate the viewers with facts that Iran is currently no threat to the US and isn't likely to ever become one - while also illustrating that he will protect the US if there was imminent threat to our national security.

We all know the hurdle is national security - and saw that in the run up to the caucuses in all of Rand's appearances that it was his focus to explain Dr. Paul's foreign policy.
 
I wonder why Russia or China doesn't just sell some nukes to Iran to take the issue (of Iran trying to get nukes) off the table?

I don't know why Putin doesn't just loudly declare a "hands off Iran" policy to the United States.
 
My issue with that is it will seem as a question dodge.

Again the reason that question would/could be asked is to find out if he will "protect" us from a threat (to enforce the narrative that he is weak on defense)– yes WE know Dr. Paul will protect us from a threat - but the message pushed in the MSM is he won't.

A question based on a hypothetical about Iran, while outlandish (because all the evidence points to them not acquiring a weapon), is an opportunity to smash this perception.

The goal of the debates is to educate on your positions and control how you're perceived.

I think Dr. Paul can both educate the viewers with facts that Iran is currently no threat to the US and isn't likely to ever become one - while also illustrating that he will protect the US if there was imminent threat to our national security.

We all know the hurdle is national security - and saw that in the run up to the caucuses in all of Rand's appearances that it was his focus to explain Dr. Paul's foreign policy.

Questions about Iran aren't hypothetical, the people asking the questions are agitating for war propaganda.
 
Questions about Iran aren't hypothetical, the people asking the questions are agitating for war propaganda.

100% agree they are propaganda. But a stupid question like that is an opportunity to both frame the debate in the context of the fact that it is war propaganda while also breaking down a perception that is pushed in the MSM daily.
 
I'd like Ron to frame it as Obama is clearly agitating for war with Iran as away to boost his sagging approval rating. We initiated the current conflict by creating sanctions that kill their economy, and they are responding in kind.

I don't know if that would play well, but it's the damn truth.
 
There's nothing to debate. We have Santorum on record saying that Iran doesn't want a bomb to attack Israel but that Iran wants a bomb to defend themselves. That's pretty much Ron Paul's position except that Ron isn't convinced that Iran is necessarily working on a bomb and Ron doesn't what to threaten Iran. So using Santorum's logic if Ron Paul was president Iran would quit working for a bomb because they wouldn't need to defend themselves.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ke-to-bomb-israel-they-want-it-for-protection.

WTH!!! this video is perfect and definitely needs to be on another flip flopper ad...
 
I don't see why nobody in this thread besides me gets it. All Ron has to do is to use Santorum's own words against him. Santorum said that he thinks Iran isn't trying to get a bomb to attack Israel but for "self defense". So then using Santorum's own logic if we quit threatening Iran they will no longer have an incentive to get a nuclear bomb. Case closed.
 
What are you suggesting? That he adopt an interventionist policy?

No, not at all. The public knows he is a non-interventionalist, although they have it nailed in their brains that he is a weak isolationist as well. That is precisely the problem. People by and large know he wants congressional approval, close bases, and won't fight wars of aggression. The misconception is on when he will actually fight and defend. The way he says it is now the answer is implied, hence why we all know it. But the public doesn't dig deep enough, hence why the whole weak on national security thing. He needs to hammer it home that he will defend us in the face of a threat. That is where the votes are. The folks that understand and love his foreign policy are banked, we need to frame the same policy in a way that appeals to people that worry about defense.
 
They don't say the same things. The second one gives legitimacy to the question of Iran even being a threat.

Regardless, though, can you tell me how you know one is better than the other? What qualifies you to make these claims?

I disagree. You may be looking too far into it. But then again, that's the point of a campaign. We want voters coming out of the debate to know Paul will defend us against a threat. The current academic lecture won many votes, but it isn't working on the seniors. What qualifies me? Nothing besides looking at the polls. The public actually likes Paul's foreign policy, it's what they want, he is just not communicating it in their terms.
 
I don't see why nobody in this thread besides me gets it. All Ron has to do is to use Santorum's own words against him. Santorum said that he thinks Iran isn't trying to get a bomb to attack Israel but for "self defense". So then using Santorum's own logic if we quit threatening Iran they will no longer have an incentive to get a nuclear bomb. Case closed.

Makes sense if this was a real debate. It's not. It's a bunch of politicians making sales pitches. Logic doesn't win. The best sales pitch wins. Sad state of affairs, but it is what it is
 
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