Santorum says Gay Marriage the most important fight of our lifetime

[Jumbo Shrimp]

Um.......what?. What on earth is the difference between saying "faith alone" or "faith apart from works"????

I will wait for your answer on this, because I really truly want to know how you think Paul thought this was different.

The phrase "faith alone" does occur in the New Testament: one time, in James 2:24. There the apostle denies that justification is from faith alone. Let me quote it: "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."

Paul excludes works from our salvation. But what kind of works is Paul talking about? If we believe the entire Bible, we need to see how Paul’s words fit together with James’s words, because James clearly says that "a man is justified by works." If Paul and James mean the same thing by works, then they contradict one another. Since you and I both believe that the Bible cannot contradict itself, we must agree that Paul and James mean two different things by the word works.

Paul is using works of the law to refer especially to the law of circumcision. He is so strong about this that he says in Galatians 5:2, "Now I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you." Paul’s opponents in Galatia wanted to bring the Gentile Christians back into the Old Testament law. These are the works of the law that Paul is fighting against, and they have no place in our justification. Paul is saying in essence that Gentile Christians do not have to be circumcised and live like Jews in order to be saved.

St. Paul speaks about Christians fulfilling the law by following the command to "love your neighbor as yourself" (Gal. 5:14). He then explains that we must show the "fruit of the Spirit" (Gal 5:16–26) and bear one another’s burdens (Gal. 6:1) as a way of fulfilling the "law of Christ" (Gal. 6:2). All Paul’s teaching comes down to this: Our own works can never justify us, but works that grow out of faith in Christ are part of our justification. That’s why Paul says in Philippians 2:12 you must "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." And that squares with James’s teaching that works that grow from faith justify.

 

[phill4paul]

LOL. Thirty pages? Santorum is on the right track. What does he have to say about the Federal Reserve?

 

[Jumbo Shrimp]

Save me 30 pages of research, since I'm genuinely curious. I only know of a few NT passages, all of them outside of the gospel(s), and many inclusive of disputed translations.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...our-lifetime&p=4687506&viewfull=1#post4687506

LOL. Thirty pages? Santorum is on the right track. What does he have to say about the Federal Reserve?

It's only 10 pages long, you should change your forum settings to 30 posts per page. It makes reading much easier.

 

[erowe1]

What, the part that talks about the "natural use" of human beings as being sexual? Eh. Never really heard that one quoted as a condemnation of homosexuality. It seems to discuss excess lust as the problem more than being gay. I always thought of it as more of an issue of lust without love; just humping like animals, regardless of what or who you are doing it with.

Here's what it says:

Romans 1:26-27 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

From my own experience that's also the one I've encountered the most.

 

[farreri]

It's funny Ayatollah Rick had preached "Freedom" in his campaign and yet banning gay marriage at the same time. I guess the technically word would be either liar or hypocrite.

 

[MelissaWV]

Timothy is talking about lawbreakers. Homosexuality was against the law.

Your translation of Romans is different than mine, and is one of the passages which varies greatly between versions.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

I've already talked about how I see that passage.

Likewise, there is some question as to whether or not Corinthians is correctly translated. Your paste job even has an "a" notation, which likely leads to a footnote on the subject.

 

[Origanalist]

Tony I tried to find photos to post, but for some reason all the lesbian photos available online are a bit... inappropriate

Dam shame that. On a side note, ol' frothy sure knows how to get folks all lathered up.

 

[Jumbo Shrimp]

It's funny Ayatollah Rick had preached "Freedom" in his campaign and yet banning gay marriage at the same time. I guess the technically word would be either liar or hypocrite.

Banning government from being involved with something is more "freedom" that asking government to be involved in regulating yet another thing.

 

[Pisces]

What, the part that talks about the "natural use" of human beings as being sexual? Eh. Never really heard that one quoted as a condemnation of homosexuality. It seems to discuss excess lust as the problem more than being gay. I always thought of it as more of an issue of lust without love; just humping like animals, regardless of what or who you are doing it with.

It's interpreted as being against homosexuality because it is saying that when people decided to worship idols over God, they lost their understanding of the natural order. Sex being solely intended for procreation is part of that natural order. So this chapter teaches that homosexuality is a result and a symptom of man's estrangement from God and His wisdom. At least, that's how I've always seen these verses explained.

 

[king_nothing_]

By the way, at least one of the horrible things I listed previously is not exclusively from the Old Testament. For example:

If you don't approve of slavery, you are a non-Christian.

Ephesians 6:5-9

(5) Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. (6) Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. (7) Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, (8) because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.

(9) And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

Luke 12:47

The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows.

 

[TonySutton]

Tony I tried to find photos to post, but for some reason all the lesbian photos available online are a bit... inappropriate

Try this one

but I also love this one

 

[MelissaWV]

Here's what it says:

From my own experience that's also the one I've encountered the most.

Right. I'm familiar with it. I just view "what is shameful" to be lust without love, relationship, consideration... you know... the natural use of other human beings

I encounter Leviticus on a woefully reliable basis whenever this entire discussion comes up. That was the only point of my earlier post.

 

[Jumbo Shrimp]

Likewise, there is some question as to whether or not Corinthians is correctly translated. Your paste job even has an "a" notation, which likely leads to a footnote on the subject.

Here's the footnote: a) The words "men who have sex with men" translate two Greek words that refer to the passive and active participants in homosexual acts.

 

[MelissaWV]

It's interpreted as being against homosexuality because it is saying that when people decided to worship idols over God, they lost their understanding of the natural order. Sex being solely intended for procreation is part of that natural order. So this chapter teaches that homosexuality is a result and a symptom of man's estrangement from God and His wisdom. At least, that's how I've always seen these verses explained.

Well thank goodness I never saw it that way. I'd hate to die a virgin.

 

[erowe1]

At what level of physical attractiveness do these pictures cross the line between making a point and serving other ends?

 

[farreri]

Banning government from being involved with something is more "freedom" that asking government to be involved in regulating yet another thing.

He's not for banning government's involvement in marriage. He wants to use the power of the Federal Government to ban gay marriage as he toted his "Freedom!" slogan during his campaign.

Try to justify his bigotry and hypocrisy all you want.

 

[Nirvikalpa]

It is not a selective verse or two. It is the entire Christian understanding of sexuality. Sexual acts, by their nature, are divinely intended to be both unitive and procreative.Christians consider all sexual acts outside of marriage to be sinful, and since homosexuals cannot marry, it must include homosexual acts.

LOL. Especially the ones that produce a child outside of wedlock, right?

 

[MelissaWV]

Here's the footnote: a) The words "men who have sex with men" translate two Greek words that refer to the passive and active participants in homosexual acts.

That's strange.

Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers—none of these will inherit the kingdom of God.

The Greek word translated as “male prostitutes” is the adjective malakoi (plural of malakos). This adjective means “soft,” as in a “soft” bed or a “soft” pillow. When applied to people, it can mean “lazy,” “self-indulgent,” “cowardly,” “lacking in self-control,” and the like. When applied to males, it generally refers to what are commonly regarded as feminine-like “weaknesses:” such men might be regarded as “soft,” “flabby,” “weak,” “cowardly,” “unmanly,” or “effeminate.” But to call a male “effeminate” might or might not carry implications of homosexuality. Sometimes it did, but certainly not always. When it did, it may have referred to the so-called “passive” or “effeminate” partner in the homosexual relationship. ... It may refer to “softness” or even “effeminacy” in some other sense. In any case, the use of the adjective malakoi to describe males should probably be seen not as “homophobic” but rather as essentially “gynophobic.” It reflects a fear of women or at least of woman-like—that is, “soft” or “weak”—behavior on the part of men.

 

[farreri]

So, someone tell me the dangers if gays are allowed to get married.

 

[MelissaWV]

At what level of physical attractiveness do these pictures cross the line between making a point and serving other ends?

Why do the righteous tremble? lol

But yeah, that's why I was saying I was having trouble finding an appropriate photo. Ah the internet.