Santorum says Gay Marriage the most important fight of our lifetime

[TonySutton]

See if we can jump a rail and get this back on track

 

[Jumbo Shrimp]

Gotta say, I hear Levit quoted most often. When I point out what else is in that book, people tell me it no longer applies. Honestly, "people" are going to have very little to do with what happens after I die, so while I reserve the right to get frustrated at being condemned via the selective use of a verse or two, it really won't amount to much once the cards are on the table.

It is not a selective verse or two. It is the entire Christian understanding of sexuality. Sexual acts, by their nature, are divinely intended to be both unitive and procreative.Christians consider all sexual acts outside of marriage to be sinful, and since homosexuals cannot marry, it must include homosexual acts.

 

[erowe1]

Gotta say, I hear Levit quoted most often. When I point out what else is in that book, people tell me it no longer applies. Honestly, "people" are going to have very little to do with what happens after I die, so while I reserve the right to get frustrated at being condemned via the selective use of a verse or two, it really won't amount to much once the cards are on the table.

Who's Levit?

 

[Jumbo Shrimp]

Who's Levit?

Joseph Gordon-Levit maybe?

 

[erowe1]

Joseph Gordon-Levit maybe?

I don't know. I know of a messianic Jew named Zola Levitt, who's mainly into prophecy from what I remember. I could see him emphasizing the Old Testament over the New, given his aim of reaching Jews. But if he does I wouldn't take it as representative of other evangelicals who don't have that focus.

 

[MelissaWV]

Who's Levit?

Of course, when a forum hiccup causes "Leviticus" to be cut off, in a post that quotes you talking about Leviticus, you have no idea what I could possibly have typed.

 

[king_nothing_]

You don't know what you're talking about. You saw someone else use this argument, thought they must be pretty bright, and just mindlessly followed them in using, thinking you could show up some Christian.

No, I didn't.

There's not one thing of substance in your whole post, but for some reason you're under the assumption that vitriol is an adequate substitute for an actual argument.

And what's your basis for that first claim anyway? Is there a poll out there of what verse people use?

Personal experience. Are you really going to pretend that Christians don't predominantly point to Leviticus when discussing homosexuality?

 

[MelissaWV]

I await the torrent of New Testament references to the evils of homosexuality though there are only a few mentions to choose from

For bonus points, I hope one of you finds a reference straight out of a gospel passage.

 

[Pisces]

No, I think most Protestants believe there was always a remnant. There were clearly precursors of Protestantism going back centuries before it. Protestants tend to see Augustine as one of them, not to mention the apostolic church itself.

At what point in time do you locate the beginning of Roman Catholicism? Whatever it was, would that mean that before that time Jesus did not keep his promise and left his disciples as orphans?

The beginning of the Church was when the Holy Spirit descended upon the disciples during the feast of Pentecost. After that event, the disciples began to spread the gospel and baptize new believers. So no, there was never a time when Christians were left as orphans unless you count the days between the Ascension and the feast of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was given to them.

As for St. Augustine, he was most definitely a Catholic. I don't have the quotes from him right now proving this but I can find them. If you read the writings of the Christians written during the Apostolic Age you will see that the Church was catholic even then.

 

[erowe1]

Of course, when a forum hiccup causes "Leviticus" to be cut off, in a post that quotes you talking about Leviticus, you have no idea what I could possibly have typed.

Duh.

Sorry. I misread you.

 

[Jumbo Shrimp]

I await the torrent of New Testament references to the evils of homosexuality though there are only a few mentions to choose from

For bonus points, I hope one of you finds a reference straight out of a gospel passage.

Already posted.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...our-lifetime&p=4687506&viewfull=1#post4687506

Of course, when a forum hiccup causes "Leviticus" to be cut off, in a post that quotes you talking about Leviticus, you have no idea what I could possibly have typed.

I was just being facetious.

 

[Sola_Fide]

That's not what I said. The Catholic Church does not teach that we earn our salvation by our own efforts, although it does teach that we have to work on our salvation.

"Work on our salvation..." This is why your man-made religion falls under the curse that Paul talks about in Galatians. Salvation is not work. If salvation was work, Christ died in vain. Read the book of Galatians, and understand what Paul is condemning in chapters 1, 3, and 5.

It teaches that we can do nothing to merit the grace that comes to us in baptism, which is the normal beginning of the Christian life. In fact, the Council of Trent condemned anyone who taught that we can save ourselves or who taught even that God helps us do what we could do for ourselves. The Church teaches that we can be saved only by God’s grace.

This is not the question. Every false religion in the world says that God's grace is necessary. The question is: is God's grace alone sufficient for salvation.

If you look carefully at St. Paul’s writings, you will notice that he never says that our righteousness comes from faith alone—only that it comes from faith apart from works.

Um.......what?. What on earth is the difference between saying "faith alone" or "faith apart from works"????

I will wait for your answer on this, because I really truly want to know how you think Paul thought this was different.

 

[Pisces]

I hear Romans Chapter 1 used more often against homosexuality than I do Leviticus, but that's just my experience.

 

[MelissaWV]

Already posted.



I was just being facetious.

Save me 30 pages of research, since I'm genuinely curious. I only know of a few NT passages, all of them outside of the gospel(s), and many inclusive of disputed translations.

 

[TonySutton]

Everyone must drink when a salvation post appears, cheers!

 

[farreri]

Sad that in 2012, homophobia is still going strong.

 

[Carehn]

And yet here you are. Like a dog returns to its vomit.

You insult me yet I + Rep you for it.... You should run for office.

 

[MelissaWV]

I hear Romans Chapter 1 used more often against homosexuality than I do Leviticus, but that's just my experience.

What, the part that talks about the "natural use" of human beings as being sexual? Eh. Never really heard that one quoted as a condemnation of homosexuality. It seems to discuss excess lust as the problem more than being gay. I always thought of it as more of an issue of lust without love; just humping like animals, regardless of what or who you are doing it with.

 

[MelissaWV]

Tony I tried to find photos to post, but for some reason all the lesbian photos available online are a bit... inappropriate

 

[erowe1]

The beginning of the Church was when the Holy Spirit descended upon the disciples during the feast of Pentecost.

I agree. But that wasn't the beginning of anything resembling what we know as Roman Catholicism.

If you're going to say Protestantism began in the 1500's, then when do you say Roman Catholicism began? And why can't the argument you use against one be turned around and used against the other?