Sanders supporters lecturing me, a former Soviet citizen, on the glories of Socialism

[RJ Liberty]

What the Soviets had wasn't socialism. Every citizen wasn't equal, there was an elite class. What Sanders wants isn't socialism either, he wants democratic socialism. It's kind of apples and oranges.

Yes. The Soviets were communists. Democratic Socialism is used throughout Europe, including Scandinavia, Germany, Ireland, and also our neighbor to the north, Canada. The US could actually stand to learn a little from our Canadian neighbors. Universal Health Care didn't cause them to crumble, and Canadians in general feel more free than Americans.

 

[VIDEODROME]

Why should he have to endorse a specific candidate? How does this add any validity to his point?

It would feel like he has a point if he wants to steer people away from Sanders to what he views as a good choice. I mean it's kind of silly if people listen to him then go support Trump then he's like "No, no you can't support him either he's terrible." then okay go to Cruz and he's like "No, that guy is not good either." and on and on.

 

[Todd]

Yes. The Soviets were communists. Democratic Socialism is used throughout Europe, including Scandinavia, Germany, Ireland, and also our neighbor to the north, Canada. The US could actually stand to learn a little from our Canadian neighbors. Universal Health Care didn't cause them to crumble, and Canadians in general feel more free than Americans.

There's a thread here where someone can point to all the Canadian license plates you'll see in Northern American hospitals, medical clinics, and gas stations. So "Yay" for their great health care. It's so great, that if they try to come here for a Dr. appointment.

They benefit greatly for having had, for the majority of their history, a neighbor like the U.S. Let's see Canada in a different geopolitical situation and see how well they fare. It won't last forever.....they eventually struggle.

Don't you get tired of trying to define freedom as the "lack of want and need"? Or is freedom not what you're looking for?

 

[hells_unicorn]

It would feel like he has a point if he wants to steer people away from Sanders to what he views as a good choice. I mean it's kind of silly if people listen to him then go support Trump then he's like "No, no you can't support him either he's terrible." then okay go to Cruz and he's like "No, that guy is not good either." and on and on.

I'd feel like a cheeseburger myself if feeling had anything to do with making a point, I'm more concerned with the content of his point, namely that his experiences give him insights on Sanders' ideology. I don't see how endorsing or not endorsing another candidate affects his point that socialism is destructive, and likewise, I see no rational argument anywhere that he doesn't understand socialism or that Sanders' obfuscated definition of socialism has any relevant difference to Bolshevism.

 

[Ronin Truth]

Checkmate!

 

[laurak]

Venezuela under Chavez was fairly pure socialism. It failed of course, you always run out of other people's money.

What will 'democratic' socialism run on? No one sane will volunteer their wealth redistributed, even if it's through democratic means like the one Sanders peddling..

 

[Ronin Truth]

"All animals are equal. Some animals are more equal than others."

 

[timosman]

"All animals are equal. Some animals are more equal than others."

I think somebody already said that in this thread. Post #20.

 

[timosman]

Yes. The Soviets were communists. Democratic Socialism is used throughout Europe, including Scandinavia, Germany, Ireland, and also our neighbor to the north, Canada. The US could actually stand to learn a little from our Canadian neighbors. Universal Health Care didn't cause them to crumble, and Canadians in general feel more free than Americans.

The adjective "democratic" makes it more palatable but it does not change the fundamentals.

 

[Ronin Truth]

I think somebody already said that in this thread. Post #20.

It bears repeating.

 

[angelatc]

What the Soviets had wasn't socialism. Every citizen wasn't equal, there was an elite class. What Sanders wants isn't socialism either, he wants democratic socialism. It's kind of apples and oranges.

This is liberal claptrap. The reasons that socialism always fail are exactly this: Humans. You're living in a Utopia if you think there won't always be an elite class. Democratic socialism is as much thuggery by a mob as government dictated socialism.

 

[angelatc]

Yes. The Soviets were communists. Democratic Socialism is used throughout Europe, including Scandinavia, Germany, Ireland, and also our neighbor to the north, Canada. The US could actually stand to learn a little from our Canadian neighbors. Universal Health Care didn't cause them to crumble, and Canadians in general feel more free than Americans.

LEAVE US THE HELL ALONE!

 

[erowe1]

Yes. The Soviets were communists. Democratic Socialism is used throughout Europe, including Scandinavia, Germany, Ireland, and also our neighbor to the north, Canada. The US could actually stand to learn a little from our Canadian neighbors. Universal Health Care didn't cause them to crumble, and Canadians in general feel more free than Americans.

They don't just feel more free. They are more free. All-in-all, the US is now more socialist than Canada.

I agree we could stand to learn some things from them and start being less socialist.

 

[69360]

What will 'democratic' socialism run on? No one sane will volunteer their wealth redistributed, even if it's through democratic means like the one Sanders peddling..

It would run on stolen money. Eventually it would run out and fail as the wealthy are tapped out or all leave.

This is liberal claptrap. The reasons that socialism always fail are exactly this: Humans. You're living in a Utopia if you think there won't always be an elite class. Democratic socialism is as much thuggery by a mob as government dictated socialism.

I'm not for socialism, I'm just discussing it.

 

[timosman]

Bureaucracy - January 1, 1944 Ludwig von Mises

https://mises.org/library/bureaucracy

The champions of socialism call themselves progressives, but they recommend a system which is characterized by rigid observance of routine and by a resistance to every kind of improvement. They call themselves liberals, but they are intent upon abolishing liberty. They call themselves democrats, but they yearn for dictatorship. They call themselves revolutionaries, but they want to make the government omnipotent. They promise the blessings of the Garden of Eden, but they plan to transform the world into a gigantic post office. Every man but one a subordinate clerk in a bureau, what an alluring utopia! What a noble cause to fight for!

 

[RJ Liberty]

There's a thread here where someone can point to all the Canadian license plates you'll see in Northern American hospitals, medical clinics, and gas stations. So "Yay" for their great health care. It's so great, that if they try to come here for a Dr. appointment.

The World Health Organization, who studies these things, disagrees with you. By any measure of health care systems, the US (ranked #37) ranks below Canada, Scandinavia, and most of western Europe. We really could learn from other countries, anecdotal evidence of license plates in parking lots notwithstanding. (BTW, Barer, et al.'s study found that Canadians visiting US health care clinics were mostly visiting the US on vacation: "Results from these sources do not support the widespread perception that Canadian residents seek care extensively in the United States. Indeed, the numbers found are so small as to be barely detectable relative to the use of care by Canadians at home.")

They benefit greatly for having had, for the majority of their history, a neighbor like the U.S. Let's see Canada in a different geopolitical situation and see how well they fare. It won't last forever.....they eventually struggle.

Not sure what Canada's proximity to the US has to do with their health care system.

 

[erowe1]

The World Health Organization, who studies these things, disagrees with you. By any measure of health care systems, the US (ranked #37) ranks below Canada, Scandinavia, and most of western Europe.

The US spends more tax dollars per person than any of those countries. I agree that we could learn from them. Our government would do well to cut its spending on healthcare down to the level of any of those countries.

 

[RJ Liberty]

They don't just feel more free. They are more free. All-in-all, the US is now more socialist than Canada.

I agree we could stand to learn some things from them and start being less socialist.

I don't believe that the US is more socialist than Canada, but there's no doubt that our government is far more authoritarian than Canada's: no NDAA, no intricate layers of spy programs spying on its citizens, no military-industrial complex, and no massive prison system incarcerating 2.5 million people.

 

[Unknown.User]

..

 

[r3volution 3.0]

The idea that every citizen will be equal in socialism is part of its fallaciousness.

You can never have every citizen equal when there is a state, since that state itself must be comprised of a subset of the people who arrogate to themselves power over the rest.

Bah, it's just your bourgeois logic which is preventing you from understanding.

The solution is quite simple.

You see, there will be no need for a government to dictate how resources are allocated, because everyone will spontaneously agree on everything at all times.

(incidentally, the seas will also turn to lemonade)