Rubio is a "no" on tax plan without increased welfare

[Krugminator2]

He's not the only one.

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/politics-government/article188027644.html

Rubio's tax credit and Rand's interest deduction are not remotely similar. And I am pretty sure you know that. I don't agree with it just like I don't favor being able to deduct mortgage interest. I favor a no deductions and a flat tax. But would you say allowing mortgage interest to be tax deductible is welfare? It is a one for one analogy.

I mean Rothbard and that crew are pretty big on these kinds of deductions. I don't even view it as unprincipled.

 

[Superfluous Man]

“low-income workers who don't have a tax burden”


if they have income, then they are paying tax. FICA.

and their employer is directly paying half of it in their name, an amount that could have otherwise gone into the employee’s paycheck.

I think that you can file and receive child tax credits even if you're completely unemployed. Can't you?

 

[Danke]

I think that you can file and receive child tax credits even if you're completely unemployed. Can't you?

Don’t know? Both parents unemployed?

 

[Krugminator2]

I think that you can file and receive child tax credits even if you're completely unemployed. Can't you?

Yes.

 

[Superfluous Man]

Don’t know? Both parents unemployed?

I think so. That's part of what the refundable aspect of refundable tax credits means.

 

[Zippyjuan]

“low-income workers who don't have a tax burden”


if they have income, then they are paying tax. FICA.

and their employer is directly paying half of it in their name, an amount that could have otherwise gone into the employee’s paycheck.

Or stayed in the company owner's pockets.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Wow. Now they are saying Corker is on board. I thought he was against it because it added to the debt. That part didn't change. "Vote for something. Anything. We need to get something passed!"

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/15/politics/tax-reform-marco-rubio-final-bill/index.html

In addition to Rubio, Sen. Bob Corker, who initially voted against the bill when it first passed the chamber, announced Friday afternoon he'd back the bill.

"After many conversations over the past several days with individuals from both sides of the aisle across Tennessee and around the country -- including business owners, farmers, chambers of commerce and economic development leaders -- I have decided to support the tax reform package we will vote on next week," the Tennessee Republican said in his statement.

 

[Danke]

Or stayed in the company owner's pockets.

That’s not how the free market would work.

 

[Zippyjuan]

That’s not how the free market would work.

In a free market, everybody is out to get as much as they can for themselves. If the company owners can keep the money and avoid giving it in the form of wages, they will. It isn't about "spreading the wealth around".

 

[oyarde]

He's not the only one.

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/politics-government/article188027644.html

I do not look at saving a deduction the same as added welfare .

 

[Zippyjuan]

I do not look at saving a deduction the same as added welfare .

Corporate welfare vs social welfare. Still welfare.

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

In a free market, everybody is out to get as much as they can for themselves. If the company owners can keep the money and avoid giving it in the form of wages, they will. It isn't about "spreading the wealth around".

An employer is not "spreading the wealth around" to just be a good egg. It's a practical transaction. You have to pay good money for good help. There comes a point when low wages results in low work. Also, an employee who is paid really low will seek another employer.

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

In a free market, everybody is out to get as much as they can for themselves.

Works the same in a very controlled government market too. That's just human nature.

Progressives like you like to push the secular myth that bigger government somehow eliminates human nature.

 

[Zippyjuan]

An employer is not "spreading the wealth around" to just be a good egg. It's a practical transaction. You have to pay good money for good help. There comes a point when low wages results in low work. Also, an employee who is paid really low will seek another employer.

They will pay the least they have to in order to attract the labor they want to hire. If a job requires special skills which are in limited supply relative to the openings, wages will be higher. More and more jobs are capable of being done by more and more people as technology makes performing that job easier. That lowers the wages a company needs to pay out. Technology can even completely replace workers- lowering their wages to zero.

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

They will pay the least they have to in order to attract the labor they want to hire.

Employees will take the most they can get to provide value to their employer.

If a job requires special skills which are in limited supply relative to the openings, wages will be higher.

Wages are also higher for harder workers, quality work, etc.

More and more jobs are capable of being done by more and more people as technology makes performing that job easier.

The economy is becoming more and more specialized, limiting even more what an individual can do.

Technology can even completely replace workers- lowering their wages to zero.

Technology also requires workers. Ideally, the workers shift to creating and working with the new technology.

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

ZippyJuan, I think you have a defeatist approach. The employer-employee relationship is a two way street.

Progressives like to portray the worker as a helpless pawn. The way an employee becomes on par with the employer is to become skilled, work hard, market himself, provide something other workers can't do, etc.

Be the employee that the employer seeks and wants, not the other way around.

 

[Matt Collins]

Tax breaks are not subsidies or welfare.

 

[LibForestPaul]

ZippyJuan, I think you have a defeatist approach. The employer-employee relationship is a two way street.

Progressives like to portray the worker as a helpless pawn. The way an employee becomes on par with the employer is to become skilled, work hard, market himself, provide something other workers can't do, etc.

Be the employee that the employer seeks and wants, not the other way around.

i.e. Not a trained monkey. Not a commodity.

 

[Jan2017]

Rubio's yes helps pass tax bill . . .

Key features of the Republicans’ final tax bill

-Health care
The bill eliminates the individual mandate, a key part of the Affordable Care Act that penalizes Americans who don't maintain health coverage.
The Congressional Budget Office estimates 13 million fewer people will have health insurance after a decade if the mandate is eliminated and premiums will rise by 10 percent on the individual market.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/key-features-republicans-final-tax-bill-n830346

 

[Superfluous Man]

Corporate welfare vs social welfare. Still welfare.

Tax deductions are not any kind of welfare at all. They're somebody paying less taxes. The most they can possibly accomplish is paying zero taxes, which just means keeping your own money.

Refundable tax credits are people getting paid back more than they pay in.