Ron's Positions on Evolution & Abortion Need to be Clarifed, Because He's Losing Support!

[Sentinelrv]

EDIT: I realize that atheists and people on Digg and Reddit are in the minority and that we should focus our time on converting larger groups of people to Ron. When I created this thread, I guess I just felt that every person voting for Ron counts, so we should still be prepared in case the subject comes up. Anyway, here is my original post...

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Last night we attempted to get an article on Reddit about the money bomb, but it failed to reach the front page. There's more than 200 votes, but it's half upvoted and half downvoted. I was trying to figure out why this happened by looking at the comments, why people were opposed to him.

If you don't know already, judging from the comments on both Digg and Reddit throughout their articles, most members are big on science, reason and logic and condemn religion and its effects on society. Many people from what I could see were arguing about Ron Paul's views on evolution, that he doesn't believe in it. I don't know Ron's position on this issue, but most people on there seem to think he doesn't believe in evolution.

This seems to be having a very negative impact on Ron's support, at least on Digg and Reddit. The main thing that comes out of this is that people believe he's imposing his religious beliefs on others by allowing them to influence his policy decisions on abortion. They believe that Ron is pro-life because of religious influence and that's why they don't support him. I believe that religion does back up his views, but that they also come from his political philosophy and the constitution.

I want you to read this conversation I had with a Reddit member, which clarifies their point of view. They condemn religion and will not touch a politician who they believe is allowing it to influence their policy making decisions.

I don't know the real facts behind Ron's positions on these issues, but what happened last night proves that we better sort this issue out right now so that we know the actual facts behind Ron's views on evolution and abortion so that we can defend him properly. I believe this is a major issue that is preventing a lot of people from joining our movement. I'm an atheist also, so I understand where they are coming from. However, I've listened to Ron speak so much that I just don't believe he would impose his religious beliefs on others through his policy making decisions. It seems that other people need more facts about his positions on these issues. They need more assurance that this isn't the case.

 

[Flash]

Ron Paul is a Creationist. I use to be a user on Reddit and the site is simply terrible, I would give up on trying to convert anyone there. Remember when that same site had an opportunity to ask Ron Paul 20 questions and most questions were concerning his view on evolution? As if that's the most important issue. Instead of discussing his Libertarian policies they just simply dismiss him and say "oh he's a crazy creationist."

I want you to read this conversation I had with a Reddit member, which clarifies their point of view. They condemn religion and will not touch a politician who they believe is allowing it to influence their policy making decisions.

I've heard a large amount of Ron Paul & Obama's speeches, and I would say Obama mentions religion & God much more frequently than RP. So if they're Obama supporters then they are hypocrites.

 

[FrankRep]

Ron Paul, CPAC 2011 Straw Poll Winner


Flashback:

H.R.1094 - Sanctity of Life Act of 2007

Sponsor: Ron Paul

(1) human life shall be deemed to exist from conception, without regard to race, sex, age, health, defect, or condition of dependency; and
(2) the term "person" shall include all such human life. Recognizes that each state has authority to protect the lives of unborn children residing in the jurisdiction of that state . Amends the federal judicial code to remove Supreme Court and district court jurisdiction to review cases arising out of any statute, ordinance, rule, regulation, or practice, or any act interpreting such a measure, on the grounds that such measure:

(1) protects the rights of human persons between conception and birth; or
(2) prohibits, limits, or regulates the performance of abortions or the provision of public funds, facilities, personnel, or other assistance for abortions. Makes this Act applicable to any case pending on the date of enactment.

 

[Yieu]

I want you to read this conversation I had with a Reddit member, which clarifies their point of view. They condemn religion and will not touch a politician who they believe is allowing it to influence their policy making decisions.

I don't have a problem with religion influencing policy decisions, as long as those policy decisions do not favor one religion over another (thus creating 'second class citizens' and contributing to the idea of 'group rights' rather than individual rights). But that's just me. Some people are so opposed to any religion whatsoever, that they cannot even associate with religious people.

Ron Paul is a Creationist.

Understanding that God created the universe, and the idea of evolution, are not mutually exclusive. It is possible for both to be true. God may have used evolution as a tool to create.

 

[Sentinelrv]

Ron Paul is a Creationist. I use to be a user on Reddit and the site is simply terrible, I would give up on trying to convert anyone there. Remember when that same site had an opportunity to ask Ron Paul 20 questions and most questions had to deal with evolution vs. creationism? As if that's the most important issue.

That's what I told the guy on Reddit...

I just think what's more important is for people to stop nitpicking on small issues like this when our entire country and way of life is about to collapse on itself. What many people need to do is to take a step back and look at the big picture and realize that never before have we had a chance to correct the major problems that are wrong with this country. Not too often does someone come along with a voting record like this, someone that votes consistently no matter what and has a philosophy behind their decisions. Not too often does someone come along that understands indepth the exact reasons for our economic troubles and how to fix them. I'm afraid too many people are focused on the little things that divide us instead of getting behind somebody that will confront our country's total destruction. Our time is running out, so we need to do something now. Ron Paul is currently our best solution to the problem.

But the fact remains that they really care about this issue, so we need to figure out the actual facts and try our best to defend Ron. We need to figure out how to show them that this isn't the case. Ignoring them isn't going to help our cause. They are possible converts that may agree with everything else he talks about, except that this one issue is blocking them from joining us.

 

[matt0611]

Ron doesn't believe in forcing his religious beliefs on others so its really a non-issue.

He explains it pretty well in the Reddit Q&A video.

 

[sailingaway]

His views on evolution are irrelevant and I don't support invading his religious privacy on that point, personally. His views on abortion aren't unknown, people just lie about them.

 

[erowe1]

They condemn religion and will not touch a politician who they believe is allowing it to influence their policy making decisions.

If they condemn religion and will not touch a politician whom they believe is allowing it to influence their policy making decisions, then how would it help for RP to clarify his position? Each and every one of his policy decisions is based on ethical principles he has that are rooted in his religion.

Of course that's also true of every other politician. So perhaps that's really the point that needs to be clarified for the Reddit folks.

 

[Joey Fuller]

Ron Paul is not losing support over his positions on Abortion and Evolution.

silly thread.

Everyone knows Ron Paul is a Christian and an OB...

Christians who don't believe in Endless War and promote issues of peace and self governance are A OKAY in my book.

 

[Baptist]

I disagree with you OP.

The problem is not getting Ron to win the general election... problem is getting Ron to win the PRIMARY. If he wins the primary he will win the general, period.

I doubt that any of those tools on Reddit are voting in the Republican primary.

Our goal is to win over Neocon sheeple who vote in the Republican primaries. Convincing everyone that Paul believes in evolution and killing babies will not win over primary voters.

 

[Yieu]

I doubt that any of those tools on Reddit are voting in the Republican primary.

Hmm, interesting point. Some people do refuse to be reasoned with due to prior biases, such as in this case.

 

[amy31416]

Kind of a retarded view, considering how many politicians (both D & R) use religion, while not being sincere. He's sincere about his religion, just as he's sincere about following the Constitution (where his religion just might be used to justify a federal ban on abortion.)

 

[Batman]

If every atheist votes against him and every Christian or Jew votes for him, Ron Paul will still win by a Randslide.

 

[Sentinelrv]

If they condemn religion and will not touch a politician whom they believe is allowing it to influence their policy making decisions, then how would it help for RP to clarify his position? Each and every one of his policy decisions is based on ethical principles he has that are rooted in his religion.

Of course that's also true of every other politician. So perhaps that's really the point that needs to be clarified for the Reddit folks.

Doesn't Ron draw his principles from the constitution? I'm sure sure religion backs his views up, but I believe they also come from his political philosophy and the constitution.

 

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I'm pro-life and I don't practice religion....

 

[Sentinelrv]

I disagree with you OP.

The problem is not getting Ron to win the general election... problem is getting Ron to win the PRIMARY. If he wins the primary he will win the general, period.

I doubt that any of those tools on Reddit are voting in the Republican primary.

Our goal is to win over Neocon sheeple who vote in the Republican primaries. Convincing everyone that Paul believes in evolution and killing babies will not win over primary voters.

This is very true, but I figure every little bit helps, so we should be prepared to defend him whenever the topic comes up.

 

[Yieu]

Kind of a retarded view, considering how many politicians (both D & R) use religion, while not being sincere. He's sincere about his religion, just as he's sincere about following the Constitution (where his religion just might be used to justify a federal ban on abortion.)

Yes, he is sincere about it, and it can be seen that he is. That is admirable, especially for someone who had been in politics for so long. That it guides his peaceful views on foreign policy shows consistency, honesty, and integrity.

 

[economics102]

I think I can summarize the view of a lot of these redditors. It has nothing to do with whether abortion/evolution are the most important issues. See, there are two camps of people on Reddit that this concerns:

The first camp are people who are potential converts. Their concern is that, as the OP said, redditors are big on science and logic. They view anyone who denies evolution as crazy/irrational, and when it comes to Ron Paul, they don't want to take seriously or politically promote someone who has THAT kind of "indefensible" irrational view regardless of what his positions are on anything else.

The second camp are the liberals/trolls who actually dislike many of Ron's positions. They spend most of their time bashing Republicans and the tea party. Whenever Ron Paul or some other liberty movement-related article pops up, they view it as both a threat to their proselytizing of liberalism as "the answer" and also dislike that we interfere with their "entertainment" of bashing Republicans and the tea party.

And a third camp -- some are simply uninformed and don't understand the difference between evil Republicans/neocons, corrupt tea partiers, and the real liberty movement.

So for all three of these groups, it really would be great if we could take away the "Ron Paul doesn't believe in evolution" argument.

As for his pro-life position, that just needs to be argued with "being pro-life is a legitimate point of view even if you disagree with it, and it is NOT the most important issue of the day." I'm pro-choice myself, and you all know you can use the libertarian philosophy to make a fairly strong argument in either direction on this subject, but I always say to people "it's fine to say you disagree on abortion but support someone for all their other positions. To say someone is 'crazy' for being pro-life is absurd though -- if you consider the fetus to be life, then abortion is murder. What's so crazy/complicated about that view?"

In my case I actually think the fetus should probably be considered life but think the fetus is essentially a "parasite" and a woman's right to her body thus supercedes the fetus' right to life. But that's a tangent for this thread...

 

[Sola_Fide]

He's "losing support"??? From liberal trolls on the internet???

Do you know MOST people in this country are creationists?

 

[Arklatex]

These folks haven't figured out that evolution is intelligently designed. It's a silly argument.

Nitpicking anyway. Ah well, Ron Paul supporters can believe whatever they like! He is all about freedom of choice.