Ron SHOULD run as an Independent/3rd Party

[RollOn2day]

and so it goes....Off to the boondocks for us and our kind!

Hang in there folks! See ya back in the GC!

 

[Zera]

AHHHHHHH STOP IT GOT DAMN IT!!!!!

HE WON'T GET THE HUGE SUPPORT YOU THINK HE WILL IN ANY POLL!!!!

STOP BEING DELUSIONAL!

You are part of the people that make the grassroots look like idiots and lunatics. Fucking stop it.

 

[colecrowe]

Yeah, good luck getting Paul to win the election with 18 supporters.

Get it through your skull:

The media will IGNORE Paul EVEN IF HE RUNS INDY. They didn't give a shit about him then, they won't. The reason is simple, and Paul for president would not benefit them at all.

Stop being so damn delusional. He said it himself, he's sticking to the GOP, and will not leave it.

Why did they cover Perot?

Why are all the radio talk show hosts complaining so strongly about McCain and saying "I wish we had someone better to vote for" and interviewing Third Party spokesmen.

 

[grizzums]

People voicing their support for Paul running third party or Indy because they strongly believe that the other options for president of the united states could be catastrophic at this point in time makes the grassroots look like lunatics and idiots? Get over yourself...

I will support paul as a republican or as an independent or as a third party. Its his choice to make and I support him and only him for president no matter what. I have no loyalty to the GOP regardless of whether I have voted the party my entire voting life or not. I hope paul does run Indy but I understand the reasons against it and will support his decision if he decides to again confirm his "no intention" to do so....grudgingly.

Calling supporters of his idiots and lunatics for hoping he runs third party makes you look like the idiot imo.

 

[Zera]

Circumstances are different this time. Both Bill and George weren't doing so great at the time Perot got so much attention. However, at the moment, McCain is doing alright with a ton of people, as well as the likely Democrat nominee, Obama... Oh, especially Obama...

The only indy candidate that will be paid attention to until the election is Ralph Nader.

Get a reality check. A couple hundred thousand votes for Paul won't help him at all when millions upon millions vote for Obama (since McCain is obviously not going to win the general election).

 

[colecrowe]

AHHHHHHH STOP IT GOT DAMN IT!!!!!

HE WON'T GET THE HUGE SUPPORT YOU THINK HE WILL IN ANY POLL!!!!

STOP BEING DELUSIONAL!

You are part of the people that make the grassroots look like idiots and lunatics. Fucking stop it.

Why do you say that? If so, why are you here and why did you give huge amounts of time and money to Ron Paul? So he could get huge support and win the Presidency. We just went after the completely wrong base, GOP voters, who are 85% die-hard pro Iraq War and pro USA PATRIOT Act.

You just said he won't get any big amount of support--so, do you think he is going to win at the Convention? How is he going to do that, without huge support? And if he did, 70% of Republican voters would still be against him and laugh at the Convention results. But only a complete psychotic retard could ever think Ron Paul will win at the Convention, let alone get to speak at it. Speak at it? He is against the war and against McCain, he said he wouldn't endorse him.

They will not let him speak. And what good will it do. Buchanan spoke at the convention.

Listen, people are constantly asking me, "When is Ron Paul going to announce that he is running independent?" They are desperate for it.

If you want Ron Paul to run for 3rd party then you are unfaithful and coward!

I'm so tired of this crap!

If you don't want Ron Paul to run indy, then you don't want what's best for this country. If you don't think he can win, then you are being willfully blind, and contradicting what you thought for so long: it was going to be extremely, awesomely tough for him to win the Nomination considering that 85% of GOP voters were for the war, but you supported him then, and you thought he could win it, and win the general if he got it.

And, by the way, how about you go join the military and join me and all those troops that were trying their hardest to send a message to Ron Paul and the country by donating overwhelmingly to him. Aholes.

I have given so much to Ron Paul, but I also have hope that he will win the white house... even if it means going iNDY, which I think is, by far, the best option.

You want me to put up or shut up, well then here (this is besides the over 300 cold calls and 200 houses I've canvassed, plus more crap--this doesn't count the $100 for the MLK money bomb, the $51 for the Anniversary money bomb, the 250 for the danged blimp, the 250 for something else I don't even remember now, plus 100 here and another 100 there, plus about 75 for my meetup collection baskets!):

this doesn't include another 100 and 100 for his congressional seat

http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=name&lname=crowe&fname=justin&search=Search
Donor Contribution Address
Justin Crowe

Soldier
Nevada Army National Guard
Updated
Q4/2007
Ron Paul
$752
2572 HEYBOURNE RD
Minden NV
Here's my wife: $201

Donor Contribution Address

Army Spouse
Army Spouse


Donor Contribution Address

Retired, Veteran
US Army Veteran, WWII
Updated
Q4/2007
Ron Paul
$1,776
2572 HEYBOURNE RD
Minden NV
Here's my father in law:

Donor Contribution Address

Veteran
Veteran Army National Guard
Updated
Q4/2007
Ron Paul
$201
1401 DOWNS DR
Minden NV

My dad's doesn't show up, even though he gave 100.

Paul has said repeatedly that he will not run 3rd party. Why would he lie to us like that?

No he hasn't!

He was absolutely right--and honest--to say that he "has no intention of going iNDEPENDENT or Third Party" because, right now (at least before today's results), his only intention is to win the Republican nomination. He 100% fully intends (or intended) to wholeheartedly run and try his best to win as a Republican while he is running as such, and he says so. He has NEVER, EVER said "I will not run iNDY". He has never, ever said "I will never run iNDY". But IF it becomes clear he cannot win the nomination, then he can go independent.

I would be very, very, very sad if he didn't go iNDY. He could win it, especially against Hillary (and she seems like the chosen one (it's all about the superdelegates).

Ron Paul said that he will continue to run as long as he continues to get support: canvassing and financing. He's not stupid. He will be able to see when continuing to run Republican will be a futile waste. Then if he has the support he mentioned, he will have to keep going. Key points:

1. A brokered convention is not going to happen.

2. Canvassing is done for almost all the states as of now, unless he goes iNDY. If he goes iNDY, on the other hand, we would have 7 months to canvass and get 200,000 plus precinct captains.

3. ...:

my dad said he'd donate another 500 to Paul (IF he announces 3rd party) (he donated 200 on Dec. 16th--but that was when it seemed like he REALLY could maybe, possibly win the Nom. I would donate 500 the day he declares (even though it will hurt financially), whereas I can't afford to give anymore (I gave just over a 1,100 in Q4 to the cause--so shut up) for his Republican run; and gramps would probably wager another 1776.00

The 2nd and 3rd tier, broader-base of supporters aren't (many or most of them) going to donate MORE--if they already have once--because TO THEM it is obvious or at least nearly certain that he's not going to get the Nom from the Republican party (I'm not saying I believe that--but they DO). However, they would be very willing and enthusiastic about supporting him in an iNDEPENDENT run.


**********
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/07/20/poll-an-independent-president/

July 20, 2007, 5:08 pm Poll: An Independent President

By Megan Thee

In a New York Times/CBS News Poll taken last week, half of Americans said a president who is neither a Republican nor a Democrat could govern effectively.
And with 6 in 10 Republican primary voters and almost 4 in 10 Democratic primary voters saying they are not satisfied with their party’s current slate of candidates for the presidential nomination, the political environment could be ripe for an independent candidate to break into the race.
[THAT'S HALF]
Michael Bloomberg, a newly minted independent who says he’s not intent on making a run for the White House even though he just switched affiliations, is largely unknown by most Americans. Six in 10 registered voters said they haven’t heard enough about him yet to have an opinion; 9 percent view him favorably; 9 percent unfavorably; and 18 percent said they are undecided.
The current poll suggests that Americans are significantly more optimistic about the chances of a third-party president meeting with success, than they were in 1995 before the Bill Clinton-Bob Dole-Ross Perot contest. In the summer of 1995, just 30 percent of Americans said an independent president could govern effectively and 61 percent said such a president would encounter serious problems dealing with Congress.
Forty-four percent of those polled recently said such a president would have trouble dealing with Congress.

Independents and Republicans are significantly more supportive of a third-party president than are Democrats. Similarly, younger Americans are more open to the idea of an independent president — as respondent age increases, the incidence of those saying an independent could govern effectively decreases.


**********
Yeah--we couldn't get on the ballots WITH SEVEN MONTHS TO DO SO?! Whatever. What a bunch of crap. How the F did Perot do it? We have way more grassroots than he did. And DON'T SAY, "With his billions." He spent 65 million--look on wikipedia. What cost $65000000 in 1990 would cost $107,402,877.98 in 2007. source: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi


You know what's really "never gonna happen"? The Republican nomination. So for people that want ONE THING and one thing only--Ron Paul to be in the whitehouse--an iNDY run must be discussed. For all you that care more about "changing the GOP", fine--you can continue to argue your point that that would be better than a Ron Paul win in the General.

An independent run is virtually impossible.
The ballot access battle is ridiculously difficult and would never happen
if Ron Paul tried to go independent.

With the sheer numbers of grassroots supporters already keyed in
the feasibility of undercutting the MSM stranglehold in the general election exists.
The organization does not cease to exist - who wants to abandon hope?
Not while we are still organized - that would be nuts.
Let us keep this thing together - no matter what.

The biggest part of making a third-party run is already in place.

The only realistic choice is to go with the Libertarian Party.

I won't vote for anyone but Ron Paul, no matter what happens.

But all this is still premature - let's wait for the results.
It is only a few hours until all the rest of the cards are on the table.

**********
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287190,00.html
FOX News Poll: Third Party President Good for Country

Thursday, June 28, 2007
By Dana Blanton

• E-MAIL STORY
• PRINTER FRIENDLY VERSION

NEW YORK — Nearly half of Americans think it would be good for the country if an independent candidate won the 2008 presidential election, according to the latest FOX News Poll. And despite acknowledging the improbability of the candidate winning, a majority says they would consider voting for an independent for president.
Opinion Dynamics Corp. conducted the national telephone poll of 900 registered voters for FOX News from June 26 to June 27. The poll has a 3-point error margin.
More than twice as many voters think it would be good for the country if an independent candidate were to win the White House in 2008 than think it would be bad (45 percent good, 19 percent bad). In addition, there is rare partisan agreement on the issue as 42 percent of Democrats and 44 percent of Republicans think electing an independent candidate would be good for the country, as do 56 percent of self-described independents.
• Click here to view full results of the poll. (pdf)
Furthermore, a 67 percent majority says they would consider casting their ballot for an independent — including more than 6 in 10 Democrats and Republicans.
Even so, most people believe independent candidates have little chance of success: 31 percent of voters think a qualified independent has a reasonable chance of winning a presidential election, while a 63 percent majority thinks it’s unlikely.
(Story continues below)
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  Full-page FNC Poll Archive

"It appears that many voters believe a vote for a candidate who has little chance of winning still is not a wasted vote," said Opinion Dynamics Vice President Lawrence Shiman. "A substantial percentage of both parties are willing to consider supporting independent candidacies regardless of the candidate’s chances of winning."
Given the amount of attention to New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s party affiliation switch from Republican to independent, and the subsequent speculation about him entering the 2008 race, the poll asked people how they would vote in a 3-way race.
The recent media coverage fails to move the numbers much from earlier in the month. Bloomberg’s 7 percent support is unchanged, and obviously puts him far behind the major party front-runners Democrat Hillary Clinton (39 percent) and Republican Rudy Giuliani (37 percent).
Paris Better Known Than Romney, Thompson
Among the presidential hopefuls, Giuliani is not only one of the best known, but he also continues to be viewed the most positively, receiving a 54 percent favorable rating. Most voters are also familiar with Republican candidate John McCain — 47 percent have a favorable opinion of him and only 5 percent don’t know him.
Republicans Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson are much less well known than the other Republican and Democratic candidates. In fact, more people say they have "never heard of" Thompson, Romney and Bloomberg, than Paris Hilton — only 7 percent of Americans were unable to express an opinion of her.
Today, even though one in five Americans (22 percent) say they have never heard of Romney, that represents a noticeable improvement from earlier this year when 43 percent didn’t know him (Jan. 30-31, 2007). However, as many voters have an unfavorable opinion of Romney (26 percent) as have a favorable opinion (25 percent). His favorable rating is 39 percent among Republicans.
Thompson’s name recognition is also picking up — 32 percent say they have never heard of him today, down from 53 percent in March. His favorable rating is 30 percent overall and 46 percent among Republicans, with 16 percent of all voters holding an unfavorable view.
For Bloomberg, 20 percent have never heard of him, an improvement from 35 percent last month (15-16 May 2007). Bloomberg’s current favorable rating is 23 percent, with 24 percent holding an unfavorable view. Attitudes toward Bloomberg are similar among Democrats (25 percent favorable) and Republicans (22 percent favorable).
The Democratic contenders are well known to voters, as majorities are able to offer an opinion on each of them. About half of Americans have a favorable view of John Edwards (49 percent), Clinton (46 percent) and Barack Obama (46 percent). Al Gore’s favorable rating is 48 percent.
For a political comparison, President Bush’s current favorable rating is 37 percent and virtually all Americans express an opinion.
For a popular culture comparison, 7 percent of Americans say they have a favorable opinion of Paris Hilton (73 percent unfavorable) and 7 percent have never heard of her.
Standings in the Primaries
In the race for the Republican nomination, Giuliani retains the leader spot at 29 percent followed by McCain at 17 percent, Thompson at 15 percent, Romney at 8 percent and Newt Gingrich at 8 percent. Giuliani is up 7 points from earlier this month, though still 10 percentage points down from 39 percent in February.
Among Democrats, Clinton strengthens her front-runner status with the support of 42 percent (up 6 points), followed by Obama at 19 percent (down 4 points), Gore at 14 percent and Edwards at 10 percent.
When Gore is taken out of the mix, Clinton’s standing improves to 47 percent, Obama 21 percent and Edwards 13 percent.
Where People Are Learning About The Candidates
Television clearly is the most popular place to get information about the presidential candidates, but there are certainly many other options these days. The poll finds that 88 percent of voters are getting information about the candidates from television coverage, 69 percent from newspapers and 51 percent radio coverage.
Internet news sites are a source for 38 percent of Americans, which is distinguished from these specific online sources: 11 percent say they use blogs, 7 percent YouTube and 4 percent use MySpace to learn about the candidates.
About twice as many Americans think Conservative radio talk shows (38 percent) have more influence on politics these days than Liberal Internet blogs (17 percent).
Finally, 53 percent of voters today think it is too early for the 2008 presidential candidates to be campaigning — up from 47 percent who thought so four months ago (February 13-14).

 

[colecrowe]

AHHHHHHH STOP IT GOT DAMN IT!!!!!

HE WON'T GET THE HUGE SUPPORT YOU THINK HE WILL IN ANY POLL!!!!

STOP BEING DELUSIONAL!

You are part of the people that make the grassroots look like idiots and lunatics. Fucking stop it.

Look at your post again and tell me who looks like an idiot. You guys do so much in Grassroots Central, don't you? What are you all here for anyway, if you don't support "RON PAUL'S 2008 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN"?

I think about 80% of the 200 or so thousand people that donated, and most the people that canvassed wished and still wish that he would go independent. He polled at 11-15% as an independent candidate in a national poll asking Obama, McCain, Bloomberg or Paul

Whereas he never got above 8% in the GOP base.

And only the GOP base has been canvassed and targeted.

 

[colecrowe]

Please move this thread back into Grassroots Central or give us a forum.

 

[colecrowe]

GREAT!

Airborn
rockandrollsouls
RollOn2day
Aidyl
Lovecraftian4Paul
Russellk30
FluffyUnbound
IDefendThePlatform
morerocklesstalk
TNFreedom
Madison
Seadeus
ndega360
Peace&Freedom
LibertyRevolution
Drknows
ronpaulyourmom
lonestarguy
colecrowe

=19

just pledged to the whitehouse site,

also everyone if you will not support the GOP Nominee unless it's Paul

Sign this petition that will be released to state GOPs http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/notogop/

 

[colecrowe]

GREAT!

mketcher
Airborn
rockandrollsouls
RollOn2day
Aidyl
Lovecraftian4Paul
Russellk30
FluffyUnbound
IDefendThePlatform
morerocklesstalk
TNFreedom
Madison
Seadeus
ndega360
Peace&Freedom
LibertyRevolution
Drknows
ronpaulyourmom
lonestarguy
colecrowe

=20

Now that McCain apparently has the nomination locked up (barring an assassination or other unforseen event), 3rd Party is now the way to go. I believe that Dr. Paul was holding off on a third party announcement to make sure he won his congressional primary.

If he doesn't run 3rd Party, it will be extremely difficult for him to raise money and keep the his supporters from being demoralized. He does have a lot of delegates, and they could still go to the convention and raise hell and raise awareness of his campaign. By staying a Republican candidate at this point, he simply won't be generating any excitement. There is so much dissatisfaction with the Obama, Hillary, and McCain that it's conceivable that Dr. Paul could win a plurality. Especially so, since the economy is becoming the main issue -- and he wipes the floor with all of them on economics.

They will, of course, try to keep him out of the debates, but if he starts gaining significant support in the polls, that will be tough to do.

The rumor on lewrockwell.com is that he's already talking with Bob Barr for a 3rd Party run.

 

[colecrowe]

GREAT!

speciallyblend
mketcher
Airborn
rockandrollsouls
RollOn2day
Aidyl
Lovecraftian4Paul
Russellk30
FluffyUnbound
IDefendThePlatform
morerocklesstalk
TNFreedom
Madison
Seadeus
ndega360
Peace&Freedom
LibertyRevolution
Drknows
ronpaulyourmom
lonestarguy
colecrowe

=21

im voting ron paul in the general. if the gop fails to nominate him,then its up to us to run him or vote for someone else with his message which means outside of the 2 old parties.


anyone that says he wont or cant run outside of the party is giving up . it's up to us if he runs ,if he doesn't then the republican party will continue to self destruct then we can try to build within the party but if that failes in 4 yrs then we need to let them go away and build something new ,if there is anything left to build after the republican party destroys itself

 

[colecrowe]

GREAT!

DFF
RonPaulFanInGA
Alex Libman
Andrew76
speciallyblend
mketcher
Airborn
rockandrollsouls
RollOn2day
Aidyl
Lovecraftian4Paul
Russellk30
FluffyUnbound
IDefendThePlatform
morerocklesstalk
TNFreedom
Madison
Seadeus
ndega360
Peace&Freedom
LibertyRevolution
Drknows
ronpaulyourmom
lonestarguy
colecrowe

=25

 

[PennCustom4RP]

People voicing their support for Paul running third party or Indy because they strongly believe that the other options for president of the united states could be catastrophic at this point in time makes the grassroots look like lunatics and idiots? Get over yourself...

I will support paul as a republican or as an independent or as a third party. Its his choice to make and I support him and only him for president no matter what. I have no loyalty to the GOP regardless of whether I have voted the party my entire voting life or not. I hope paul does run Indy but I understand the reasons against it and will support his decision if he decides to again confirm his "no intention" to do so....grudgingly.

Calling supporters of his idiots and lunatics for hoping he runs third party makes you look like the idiot imo.

^^^What Grizzums said...Im with that and only reg GOP to vote for RP! Add me... have been thinking on this since super tues...

Colecrowe dont let Zera with a Feb join date and all of 26 posts get to you...ignore!! Same said for any other GOP loyalist who mixes in dissent on RP continuing...to them the GOP is more important than RP in the Whitehouse.

If they ban you/me/us...start another forum...but TX is done, the GOP nom is done...the only course is the alternative, or quit...I prefer the alternative!

 

[Columbia Blue]

3rd party run is the only viable option at this point. Count me in as well.

 

[intelliot]

Independents never win. When was the last time we had an independent for President?

 

[qh4dotcom]

I am hoping that at least someone Ron Paul endorses runs 3rd party.

 

[menoname]

Would Ron Paul have to give up his seat in Congress if he went third party? If yes, then it wouldn't be a good idea. Rome wasn't built in a day you know.

 

[OptionsTrader]

I am a member of the Libertarian party as of recently. I want Ron to do whatever he strategically thinks is best however. And if a LP run is in the cards, I find it difficult to understand why I just busted my ass getting him 7 delegates to go to the Republican county convention, since my voting in the primary as an (R) disqualifies me from voting in the LP convention coming up.

 

[OptionsTrader]

Independents never win. When was the last time we had an independent for President?

When was the last time we had a black president or a woman president?

First of a kinds do happen....

 

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

By the way, looks like Hillary has made a real comeback on the Dem side by winning in both Ohio and Texas. She still has a strong chance of winning their nomination. It would be utterly stupid not for Ron Paul to run if it's a Hillary-McCain race. That leaves such a bad taste in the mouths of independents that we would have a serious shot at capturing many of them. Not to mention the enraged anti-war Obama people who are feeling cheated by Hillary's underhanded tactics. Equally important, she would also stand a much better chance than Obama of getting trashed by McCain and losing due to her unpopularity. If that happens, the GOP loyalists can say goodbye to their reform attempts. The neo-cons will grin, sit back for the next four years, and have their position completely validated within the Republican Party, at least from the standpoint that it can etch out a victory.

If we get a Hillary-McCain race, Ron Paul is all but guaranteed to poll the 10-15% required to get into the debates with the two. Many here wanted him to continue on some vague assumption he would be able to speak to a national audience at the convention. Wouldn't it be twenty times better to have Ron Paul debating Hillary and McCain on a national stage, which we have a much better chance of achieving, if he will declare an independent run in the next few months?