Ron Paul & voluntarists

[ClayTrainor]

Answer the question.

What one?

 

[ClayTrainor]

I am seriously beginning to believe that Clay Trainor and Wesker are here to disrupt liberty rather than promote it.

Im here to promote liberty and free-markets, not Constitutions and statism.

 

[Travlyr]

The State can be amended to be voluntary.

Stupid anarchy cult is stupid.

 

[Travlyr]

You misrepresent the state by lying to your recruits, and claim you have a better solution but can never answer questions posed to you by property owners.

 

[ClayTrainor]

The State can be amended to be voluntary.

Out of all the states that exist in the world today, which ones are 100% voluntary?

Stupid cult is stupid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

 

[Travlyr]

If you didn't have to lie to your recruits and misrepresent the State it would be different. Liars are losers in the 21st century.

 

[Travlyr]

No State that I know of today is voluntary, but they can be amended as such.

Now it is your turn. Why do you feel you need to lie to get recruits?

 

[ClayTrainor]

You misrepresent the state by lying to your recruits,

I merely represent myself and my own thoughts.

If I just wanted to recruit people to anarchy, all I need to do is let them read your arguments with an open mind.

Case in point:

Discussions like this are why I lean more and more towards anarchy each day. Almost all of the arguments against it are based on strawman.

With Voluntarism, the logical inconsistancies are largely gone. There are no contradictory beliefs about how the income tax is immoral, but a sales tax or tariff tax is ok. There are no pet issues. There isn't the belief that many other Libertarians have that the Austrian School of economics is right on all but one pet issue, where it just so happens that the random libertarian and the government knows more than all Austrian economists. There are no excuses for advocating government coercion with voluntarism.

 

[ClayTrainor]

No State that I know of today is voluntary, but they can be amended as such.

Would you argue the same about the mafia? They aren't voluntary, but can be amended as such?

Now it is your turn. Why do you feel you need to lie to get recruits?

I'm merely interested in expressing my own ideas and thoughs, and people are free to disagree with them and challenge them.

If you think I'm lying about something, cite it... demonstrate it... don't just assert it.

 

[Travlyr]

This is NLP. Ron Paul supporters should go to YouTube and dislike and comment because they are misrepresenting the good Doctor Paul.

At 39 seconds into this video the video maker lies about the State and misrepresents Ron Paul's position.

"The purpose of the State is to provide security" is an out-n-out lie.

The constitutions do not call for police. The police did not come onto the scene until about the time of the War Between the States the first time the counterfeiting cabal started printing paper money.

They are doing everything in their power to destroy his campaign.

 

[ClayTrainor]

This is NLP. Ron Paul supporters should go to YouTube and dislike and comment because they are misrepresenting the good Doctor Paul.

Ron Paul supporters should think for themselves and act accordingly.

At 39 seconds into this video the video maker lies about the State and misrepresents Ron Paul's position.

"The purpose of the State is to provide security" is an out-n-out lie.

What did they constitution mean by "Provide for.... and secure the blessings of liberty" in the preamble?

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The constitutions do not call for police. The police did not come onto the scene until about the time of the War Between the States the first time the counterfeiting cabal started printing paper money.

Security does not necessarily mean police.

They are doing everything in their power to destroy his campaign.

That's quite a bold claim. Are you asserting this towards anyone specifically, or collectively?

I think you have bigger dragons to slay, and would also suggest that your arguments against voluntaryism are not having the effect that you intend. I certainly welcome you to keep it up, though.

 

[Travlyr]

I read secure the blessing of liberty as intending to establish courts of justice.

Ron Paul is a "Defender of Liberty" and supporter of the Constitution. Those are his words. Why do you guys lie about that?

 

[ClayTrainor]

I read secure the blessing of liberty as intending to establish courts of justice.

How is that not "providing" a form of "Security", with regards individual liberty?

Ron Paul is a "Defender of Liberty" and supporter of the Constitution. Those are his words. Why do you guys lie about that?

I can't speak for others, but I personally have never claimed that Ron Paul isn't a supporter of the Constitution. However, it is also clear that Ron Paul is in no way opposed to a libertarian society that advocates for self-government, rather than a return to the constitution.



Ron Paul was asked at 3:55: "What do you say to people who advocate self-government, rather than a return to the Constitution?"

Ron Paul: "Great. Fine... I think that's really what my goal is."

 

[Travlyr]

Ron Paul supporters should think for themselves and act accordingly.

I'm sure they will.
Liars and dumb asses should quit misrepresenting Ron Paul's positions.

Stupid Anarchy cult is stupid.

 

[V3n]

Admins: Please stop allowing this thread to appear when I hit "New Posts". Categorization and labeling doesn't help anyone, can this thread just die please?

 

[newbitech]

are we sure he is not talking about selfish-government? wouldn't want to get our terms confused

 

[Travlyr]

"The purpose of the State is to provide security" is an out-n-out lie.
This infers a police state and State constitutions do not call for police or security teams.

Ron Paul is not going to get rid of the State. Ron Paul is "defender of liberty" and supporter of the Constitution.

How come you guys lie and cannot be honest about that?

 

[ClayTrainor]

Liars and dumb asses should quit misrepresenting Ron Paul's positions.

Ron Paul can speak for himself.

Stupid Anarchy cult is stupid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

It's obvious you've lost the argument when you resort to constant ad-hom bombs.

I feel like quoting myself, because I think you are making my case.

I really think the forum minarchists who make a point of arguing against an-cap and voluntaryist philosophy on a regular basis are probably responsible for opening more minds up to voluntaryism and anarchy than the an-caps themselves.

 

[ClayTrainor]

"The purpose of the State is to provide security" is an out-n-out lie.
This infers a police state and State constitutions do not call for police or security teams.

No, you are inferring that all on your own.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Ron Paul is "defender of liberty" and supporter of the Constitution. How come you guys lie and cannot be honest about that?

I can't speak for others, but I personally have never claimed that Ron Paul isn't a supporter of the Constitution. However, it is also clear that Ron Paul is in no way opposed to a libertarian society that advocates for self-government, rather than a return to the constitution.

No one here is lying, you're just getting uptight and resorting to ad-hominems and accusations about our motives, which to me is typical of someone who is losing an argument.

Also, for someone who said...

They never answer the tough questions.

It's pretty interesting how you avoided my last question, and proceeded with assertions and ad-hom bombs.

How is that not "providing" a form of "Security", with regards individual liberty?

 

[V3n]

If you agree with him, vote for him, if not, don't. Enough with this collectivist shit. Please!