Ron Paul on Labor??

[gride]

being a doctor, would Ron agree or disagree that doctors should be required to go to school, have a degree etc???
if the answer is agree, then i would assume that he would have to agree that people who weld on or work on structural projects where safety of the user is required, should also be required to have schooling and licensing etc etc??
i'm just trying to get something here to show my ironworker brothers.
they know we are screwed with either of the "mainstream" candidates,
but they won't seem to take a look at Ron's free market position
i think a union like ours would do fine in a free market

 

[Kade]

being a doctor, would Ron agree or disagree that doctors should be required to go to school, have a degree etc???
if the answer is agree, then i would assume that he would have to agree that people who weld on or work on structural projects where safety of the user is required, should also be required to have schooling and licensing etc etc??
i'm just trying to get something here to show my ironworker brothers.
they know we are screwed with either of the "mainstream" candidates,
but they won't seem to take a look at Ron's free market position
i think a union like ours would do fine in a free market

In a real free market, no licenses, no permits would be needed... any position away from that, would flaw the entire ideal..

Which is why, personally, I like degrees and licenses as requirements.

 

[phixion]

In a real free market, no licenses, no permits would be needed... any position away from that, would flaw the entire ideal..

Which is why, personally, I like degrees and licenses as requirements.

I aren't too sure about that.

Surely in a real free market the health and safety concerns (or rather demands) from the public on to health care providers would beget a system of various licences and requirements which would end up standardized, overseen by some entity, profit or non profit. The free market may demand the latter.

Pete

 

[Kade]

I aren't too sure about that.

Surely in a real free market the health and safety concerns (or rather demands) from the public on to health care providers would beget a system of various licences and requirements which would end up standardized, overseen by some entity, profit or non profit. The free market may demand the latter.

Pete

Through what, trial and error?

 

[phixion]

Through what, trial and error?

It would be in the interests of the provider to know what they're doing - hi lawsuits.

It would be in the publics interest to know the provider knows what they're doing.

Where does trial and error come in to it? The knowledge is already out there. If it were to go 'free market' tomorrow, we would all demand exactly the same rules and regulations and licences etc that are in place now, up to the same standards. Nothing less I wouldn't imagine.

Pete

 

[gride]

If it were to go 'free market' tomorrow, we would all demand exactly the same rules and regulations and licences etc that are in place now, up to the same standards. Nothing less I wouldn't imagine.
Pete

i like the sound of that
i wish i could hear something like that straight from Ron
i'm trying to open my ironworker brothers up to Ron
but it ain't no easy task
in the ironworker forums i get sand kicked in my face and they steal my lunch money when i speak of Ron =)

any fellow union jacks out there with any good arguing points for Ron to the Dem. union folks??

 

[Kade]

It would be in the interests of the provider to know what they're doing - hi lawsuits.

It would be in the publics interest to know the provider knows what they're doing.

Where does trial and error come in to it? The knowledge is already out there. If it were to go 'free market' tomorrow, we would all demand exactly the same rules and regulations and licences etc that are in place now, up to the same standards. Nothing less I wouldn't imagine.

Pete

You are correct, but that was at the costs of a system for which was forged through policy, and a combination of trial and error....

Some things would go back to Tabula Rasa, and the sheer number of scams would become uncontrollable... and would lead to a voter backlash, which, in a democracy, is equally damaging.

 

[acptulsa]

There are organizations from Underwriters' Laboratories to Consumers' Reports and Good Housekeeping who have performed standardized ratings over time, so companies can voluntarily (or under duress from their insurance underwriters) subject themselves and/or their employees to standards and testing. And as for Brotherhoods, they were born in a free market to help make sure the market for our labor remains a free market and not a monopoly where all the employers are in cahoots with each other. And speaking of in cahoots, how do your union brothers feel about the NAFTA Superhighway?

 

[Kade]

There are organizations from Underwriters' Laboratories to Consumers' Reports and Good Housekeeping who have performed standardized ratings over time, so companies can voluntarily (or under duress from their insurance underwriters) subject themselves and/or their employees to standards and testing. And as for Brotherhoods, they were born in a free market to help make sure the market for our labor remains a free market and not a monopoly where all the employers are in cahoots with each other. And speaking of in cahoots, how do your union brothers feel about the NAFTA Superhighway?

Heh, I worked for UL in South Bend, Indiana, for awhile...

 

[gride]

And speaking of in cahoots, how do your union brothers feel about the NAFTA Superhighway?

i threw that subject up on their forums with a "huh" reply
its not mainstream news yet so much as some of the other issues so they dont get it yet

And as for Brotherhoods, they were born in a free market

our union (ironworkers) is like an accredited college now for which we receive a degree when graduating from the apprenticeship..

so back to original question
will a dr still be required to have a degree to practice??
because if yes then i should be able to assume with confidence that a position of building structures in which public safety is a concern in the finished product should require a degree and liscencing...thus protection the jobs of union members

 

[therealjjj77]

I'm all in favor of licenses and regulations. Just not ones imposed by the government. In my own cafe, my customers regulate how I produce the product. They require good quality, good value, and a product that they won't get sick from. If I don't meet enough of their requirements, I'm out of business. If I make them sick, I could find myself in court.

Same goes for a doctor. You go into his office and see he's licensed by such and such school to practice medicine, then you can choose whether or not you have him practice on you. You have imposed the regulation on him as opposed to some government body doing it. I'm all in favor of that kind of regulation.

Those are the kind of regulations that drive our economy to give us better quality products at a lower price.

Government regulations, on the other hand, tend to cost lots of money to cause lots of problems. I go to my doctor and say what I want done but that I don't want to pay too much. He says he can't help me there because he has everything told to him from the kind of soap he buys to the clothes used. Every little minutia is regulated. On top of that, if he accepts payment from Medicare or insurance companies, he has to charge me list price or he's in violation of the statutes.

 

[therealjjj77]

By the way, government did not invent college degrees. The free market did.

 

[AutoDas]

The government is not some omnipotent being that knows when it is 'good enough'. Schools do the licensing themselves with their diplomas. All that the government is good for is protecting life, liberty and property.

 

[gride]

i saw in the pillars some thing he does not like
the prevailing wage laws
and some other things

 

[nickcoons]

Surely in a real free market the health and safety concerns (or rather demands) from the public on to health care providers would beget a system of various licences and requirements which would end up standardized, overseen by some entity, profit or non profit. The free market may demand the latter.

They very well may. The important point that separates free market regulation from government regulation is that the former is voluntary (and functions more effectively), and the latter is forced at gunpoint.

When Ron Paul says that he's against regulations and licensing, because he is a congressional and presidential candidate, it is implied that he's against government regulations and licensing. The free market is naturally self-regulating, and there's no reason for him to oppose that.

 

[Mini-Me]

They very well may. The important point that separates free market regulation from government regulation is that the former is voluntary (and functions more effectively), and the latter is forced at gunpoint.

When Ron Paul says that he against regulations and licensing, because he is a congressional and presidential candidate, it is implied that he against government regulations and licensing. The free market is naturally self-regulating, and there's no reason for him to oppose that.

Exactly: The federal government has absolutely no authority to impose restrictions on who may or may not perform whatever type of job. Instead, whoever is paying to have the job done will decide for themselves just how good "good enough" is, and they'll have to live with the consequences (and perhaps the liability, depending on the contract). Generally speaking, nobody in their right minds would hire someone to do construction work (or medical work, or whatever) that doesn't know what they're doing - the market itself demands all of the degrees and accreditation that are necessary for any type of work. Whenever the government gets involved, it screws something up: Either it drives up costs by requiring people to meet senseless regulations with no logical basis, or it sets some completely substandard requirement for accreditation, which everyone just assumes is "enough" because the government said so. Either way, it distorts the market.

 

[danberkeley]

Through what, trial and error?

Sure. Did you think that the government was born knowing everything?

 

[Mini-Me]

Sure. Did you think that the government was born knowing everything?

"No wonder the politicians of the [twenty-first] century look upon society as an artificial production of the legislator's genius."