Ron Paul on KTNV: "We're afraid to sneeze or we're gonna warm up the globe."

This is one of the few points I disagree with Ron Paul on.

Ron Paul is not a scientist. His degrees are not in atmospheric physics, cryospherics, oceanic physics, climatology, or any of the other branches of science related to weather and climate.

As such, he is of course entitled to his opinion. However, I happen to work with the models and the simulations that are being used in effort to predict exactly what impacts there will be from a changing climate.

Derisively dismissing climate change is no different than those dismissing the fiscal crisis that is facing this country. The crisis that David Walker (Comptroller of the GAO) states is a serious issue, but we have people who are ignorant or simply don't want to believe it's there. Despite glaring evidence that a financial crisis is coming, nobody seems to want to acknowledge that it even exists except for "fringe" people such as Ron Paul.

This is very similar to climate change. The data is there. The models are available to public. You can download them from NASA if you want to. Yet in spite of the volumes of data supporting the fact that the climate is indeed changing, despite the thousands of scientist worldwide who agree, people either ignore it or don't want to admit it. What is causing it doesn't matter at this point. What matters is how we are going to deal with it.

I agree that there have been way to many alarmists about climate change. It will not end the world. But it will change it, and we have to be ready for it.

That is not to say that it is the federal government's responsibility to handle this. My point is that dismissing something out of hand simply because you don't know about it is as bad as those who dismiss Ron Paul as a loon simply because they don't know about him (or worse, only know what they've been told by FOX).

~X~

I don't think anyone disputes the Earth is going through a cycle of warming. However, what many conservatives and rational people dispute is the notion that it is man-made. It's an excuse used by liberals to get more government control.

Also, the Earth has warmed and cooled down throughout history. This is a natural cycle. Many credible scientists have come out against Al Snore and his theories but they aren't given media attention.
 
My god, we are dealing with the global climate and the fate of the Earth here.

Given the highly nonlinear nature of climate phenomena, there simply may be no turning back.

In consideration of gravity of the situation, don't you think it's prudent to err on the side of safety and _assume_ that it is manmade?

I haven't read the literature on controversy between man-made or not, but I don't want to find out 50 years from now that it _is_ man-made, but that it is far too late.
 
Sometimes Ron Paul's and the whole libertarian movement's dismissal of the climate change and increasing catastrophe makes me question whether my support is really justified.

After all, individual rights and less government are all a good thing -- but only if we are comfortable enough to enjoy it.
 
We have been infiltrated by hacks and MSM shills, the hacks come from within the establishment and are here trying to cause feelings of dispair. Don't even answer those assholes, IGNORE THEM!!!!!

I agree, global warming has been going on long before man learned to make fire. The great lakes are a result of global warming.
 
in the 1970s and 80s you were considered an absolute fool if you didn't believe that an ice age was coming, now you are considered an absolute fool if you don't believe in global warming. yes, there is the probably global warming on earth and mars - how much of it is from man is to be determined.

what i am sure of is this, "fact" is being manipulated by politicians for their own means and there are many companies willing to play the game for huge profits. hillary wants to pull the country out of recession by "green collar" jobs.

ron is not a scientist but he has been around long enough to see these bandwagons come and go.

The other night in the Dem debate, Barack talked about his plans to implement a "cap and trade" policy if he's elected.

Yes, I remember the ice age scare and the Y2K scare, as well.
 
I don't think anyone disputes the Earth is going through a cycle of warming. However, what many conservatives and rational people dispute is the notion that it is man-made. It's an excuse used by liberals to get more government control.

Also, the Earth has warmed and cooled down throughout history. This is a natural cycle. Many credible scientists have come out against Al Snore and his theories but they aren't given media attention.

Actually there are a number of climate scientists who disagree with whether warming is occurring, along with dissenting on related issues, as revealed in this survey:

http://downloads.heartland.org/2086111.pdf

The global warming debate actually breaks down into 4 different main questions, that get mixed up in the discussion---1) is it happening at all, 2) if it is occurring, is it a transcient or permanent trend, 3) if it's permanent, is it mailnly man-made or manipulatable by man, and 4) if it is manipulatable, is the best way to deal with by controlling carbon emissions (through a global tax on exhaling?) or through CO2 sequestration (growing more plants to absorb the CO2). LRC ran an interesting piece on a free-market way to increase CO2 sequestration a few weeks ago:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/masterjohn3.html
 
Yes, and the ice caps of Mars and other outer planets are melting too.

Science agrees, there is global warming and that is because the Sun - Sol is getting hotter.

It's also the cause of that comet that flared up bigger than Jupiter.
 
Are you people really buying the propaganda of Big Oil? They've been caught red-handed paying off scientists to dismiss global warming.

Exxon made $39 billion last year. Follow the money. There's much more profit to be made by dismissing global warming than by promoting it.

And from what I've seen, those counter-arguments, like the sun's output changing and warming Mars, are already taken into account in the climate models. Solar output can account for some of the effect we're seeing, but not all of it.

It's simple physics: CO2 traps heat. We know that, and we know that the percentage of CO2 in the atmosphere has increased 40% or so due to industrial output. The only uncertainty is the effects of all the feedback loops in the biosphere. It's an amazingly complicated system. But if you look at the history of the planet, there are periods where it gets a lot hotter and drier, and relatively lifeless. And the planet can flip to a new phase a lot more quickly than we used to think. We really, really don't want that to happen.

So why am I supporting Ron Paul? Because despite his skepticism, PAUL IS THE ONLY ONE WHO COULD FIX IT!

First he told Bill Maher that if global warming is for real, the best thing we could do is what he wants to do anyway: stop subsidizing Big Oil, stop protecting our oil supplies with military force, stop keeping the price of oil artificially low so that alternative fuels can compete.

Then I saw the Money As Debt documentary (40 minute video, google it, comes right to the top), which explains how our monetary system actually works. It'll be old hat to a lot of Paul supporters, for me it was a real eye-opener. Our money is backed by debt, and the only way to pay the interest on that debt is to keep expanding the money supply and the economy, exponentially. If you keep growing exponentially on a finite planet, it's pretty obvious to anybody aside from an economist that you're going to run into trouble.

Paul's idea to allow competing currencies fixes that problem. (The documentary had some arguments against the gold standard, which I thought were pretty weak...but of course Paul's plan is to allow any new form of currency that people are interested in using.)

Then I saw this article on lewrockwell:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/masterjohn3.html

....which said that the only currently-practical way to remove large amounts of CO2 from the atmosphere, in the short term, is to restore topsoil, and there are people (linked in the article) who know how to do it. Their two big problems are: 1) government subsidies to conventional agriculture, which makes it hard for them to compete, and 2) forthcoming government mandates to chip all animals in a pasture, but not all the animals in a factory farm, which makes it even harder for them to compete.

And guess who wants to fix both those problems?

Meanwhile, what do the candidates who talk about fixing global warming want to do? Regulate? Join Kyoto? A report came out recently saying the countries who signed up for Kyoto aren't coming anywhere near meeting their targets. Regulation is not going to fix this problem. The only way to fix it is to change the system, and only Paul has plans for doing that.

Something like 70% of Americans are convinced now that global warming is a big problem. This does not have to be a problem for us. Paul is absolutely the best candidate for anyone who's worried about this issue, and he'll fix it without applying oppressive regulations. If we promote this fact, we can make environmentalists our allies instead of our enemies. And we need all the allies we can get.
 
Are you people really buying the propaganda of Big Oil? They've been caught red-handed paying off scientists to dismiss global warming.

Exxon made $39 billion last year. Follow the money. There's much more profit to be made by dismissing global warming than by promoting it.

And from what I've seen, those counter-arguments, like the sun's output changing and warming Mars, are already taken into account in the climate models. Solar output can account for some of the effect we're seeing, but not all of it.

It's simple physics: CO2 traps heat. We know that, and we know that the percentage of CO2 in the atmosphere has increased 40% or so due to industrial output. The only uncertainty is the effects of all the feedback loops in the biosphere. It's an amazingly complicated system. But if you look at the history of the planet, there are periods where it gets a lot hotter and drier, and relatively lifeless. And the planet can flip to a new phase a lot more quickly than we used to think. We really, really don't want that to happen.

So why am I supporting Ron Paul? Because despite his skepticism, PAUL IS THE ONLY ONE WHO COULD FIX IT!

First he told Bill Maher that if global warming is for real, the best thing we could do is what he wants to do anyway: stop subsidizing Big Oil, stop protecting our oil supplies with military force, stop keeping the price of oil artificially low so that alternative fuels can compete.

Then I saw the Money As Debt documentary (40 minute video, google it, comes right to the top), which explains how our monetary system actually works. It'll be old hat to a lot of Paul supporters, for me it was a real eye-opener. Our money is backed by debt, and the only way to pay the interest on that debt is to keep expanding the money supply and the economy, exponentially. If you keep growing exponentially on a finite planet, it's pretty obvious to anybody aside from an economist that you're going to run into trouble.

Paul's idea to allow competing currencies fixes that problem. (The documentary had some arguments against the gold standard, which I thought were pretty weak...but of course Paul's plan is to allow any new form of currency that people are interested in using.)

Then I saw this article on lewrockwell:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/masterjohn3.html

....which said that the only currently-practical way to remove large amounts of CO2 from the atmosphere, in the short term, is to restore topsoil, and there are people (linked in the article) who know how to do it. Their two big problems are: 1) government subsidies to conventional agriculture, which makes it hard for them to compete, and 2) forthcoming government mandates to chip all animals in a pasture, but not all the animals in a factory farm, which makes it even harder for them to compete.

And guess who wants to fix both those problems?

Meanwhile, what do the candidates who talk about fixing global warming want to do? Regulate? Join Kyoto? A report came out recently saying the countries who signed up for Kyoto aren't coming anywhere near meeting their targets. Regulation is not going to fix this problem. The only way to fix it is to change the system, and only Paul has plans for doing that.

Something like 70% of Americans are convinced now that global warming is a big problem. This does not have to be a problem for us. Paul is absolutely the best candidate for anyone who's worried about this issue, and he'll fix it without applying oppressive regulations. If we promote this fact, we can make environmentalists our allies instead of our enemies. And we need all the allies we can get.

I don't deny planetary warming... I am skeptical of the reasons... and what i mean is... Al Gore's over-simplification of... its all our fault... turns off any intellectual.
If all the other planets are warming up too... comets are bursting into giant comas larger than jupiters... then perhaps there is more going on than just too many cars.
This planet was here long before us... and it will be here long after...
this isn't about saving the planet... its about saving us... so let's get serious about understanding warming and cooling cycles and quit with the fear mongering Gore science.

Has anyone ever asked the question, could global warming be good for the earth?
Yes- there will be changes... but our eco system depends on environmental renewal through such changes. Primarily, volcanization, is the leading cause for terraforming our planet... and a good source for green house gases.

Evolution increases during warming periods and decreases during cooling periods.
And many other cool facts, but i gotta go to work!
 
Exactly, it's about saving us. The planet has been warmer before, and in the long term it'll be just fine. It's been a lot warmer than it ever has since the beginning of agriculture. In all our history, we have never dealt with that level of change. But throughout history, human civilizations have fallen due to environmental changes that they themselves caused. Let's not let it happen to us.

(Incidentally, there's no controversy at all on another problem: that aside from any warming issue, the increased CO2 is increasing the acidity of the oceans, to the point where there's real concern that it will kill off small crustaceans and collapse the food chain. Personally, I'd miss seafood.)

My point, though, is that as far as this election is concerned, it doesn't matter what we believe on this issue. The things that Paul wants to do anyway will have major beneficial effects for the environment. That's the message we should promote.
 
My god, we are dealing with the global climate and the fate of the Earth here.

Given the highly nonlinear nature of climate phenomena, there simply may be no turning back.

In consideration of gravity of the situation, don't you think it's prudent to err on the side of safety and _assume_ that it is manmade?

I haven't read the literature on controversy between man-made or not, but I don't want to find out 50 years from now that it _is_ man-made, but that it is far too late.

The Earth has warmed and cooled down many times over its history. You're buying into the paranoia of the facist liberals. The scare tactic in the 1970s was that man was to blame for the coming Ice Age. Now they changed their mind and decided we are to blame for global warming. They are making this a political issue.
 
Yes, and the ice caps of Mars and other outer planets are melting too.

Science agrees, there is global warming and that is because the Sun - Sol is getting hotter.

Why don't people research. When people at work told me about the ice caps on Mars melting, and how that proved that man made Global Warming was a myth, I went home and searched for it. A bunch of facts and articles were out there. They said that Mars' ice caps are melting due to the way it is tilting on it's axis, or wobbling, and scientists all know about that and agree on that--except for the ONE scientist who keeps promoting this hogwash.

I am also extremely skeptical of the hype about global warming. But I am more skeptical of all this stuff that keeps coming out disproving it.
 
The Earth has warmed and cooled down many times over its history. You're buying into the paranoia of the facist liberals. The scare tactic in the 1970s was that man was to blame for the coming Ice Age. Now they changed their mind and decided we are to blame for global warming. They are making this a political issue.

Why don't people research. This crap about global cooling is propaganda used by those who try to disprove man made global warming. Just look up global cooling and you'll see what I mean! The two ideas have no similarity--global cooling was never taken seriously by a number of scientists. Global warming on the other hand is taken seriously by a huge consensus of scientists--and scientists have taken it seriously for years and years--way before it was trendy. Global cooling however was immediately picked up by Time or Newsweek or some crap and then got attention--but it was still never given credence in the science community.
 
Why don't people research. When people at work told me about the ice caps on Mars melting, and how that proved that man made Global Warming was a myth, I went home and searched for it. A bunch of facts and articles were out there. They said that Mars' ice caps are melting due to the way it is tilting on it's axis, or wobbling, and scientists all know about that and agree on that--except for the ONE scientist who keeps promoting this hogwash.

I am also extremely skeptical of the hype about global warming. But I am more skeptical of all this stuff that keeps coming out disproving it.

What about the comet that is flaring up because of increase solar radiation?
 
Gosh. I start a thread about Ron Paul and everybody gets into a global warming argument.

Ron Paul isn't a scientist

Last time I checked, Ron Paul was running for president. He's for individual liberty and property rights. It's not his job to fight global warming. Nor is it the government's job. Please don't troll in my threads. :)
 
I hope it's not trolling to say this: If you're promoting Ron Paul and you talk with someone who's concerned about global warming, please don't try to convince the person that global warming is not real. It won't work. Tell them how Ron Paul is the best person to fight global warming. (I listed three reasons why that's true, in a previous post.)
 
This is one spin I'd like too see him lean on

I subscribe to the side that says we're screwed.
 
It's hard to win an election when you disagree with the majority of voters. I suggest he stop talking about global warming.
 
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