Ron Paul called for a "Bipartisan Revolution" I say we give it to him.

Cshelton21

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Today was a day of victory, no doubt about that.

Ron Paul may very well have started something that will change the rest of our lives (as if he already hasn't). This could be the first of many fatal blows to the Federal Reserve and fiat currency. The resulting brush-fires could swirl into a firestorm of support for the reduction of government and subsequent secrecy. Global peace is possible again, once printing machines are revealed to be most lethal weapon in world. After all, if you can't inflate the currency you have to raise taxes exponentially, and nobody is willing to do that.

But that's only if we fight, with ally's!

I propose reaching out to members of the Occupy Wall Street movement, inform them of the success of H.R 459 and encourage them to contact senators and inform other Occupy activist. This is one of Occupy's battle-crys, but they lack leadership or means of change past mass demonstrations. I understand that many people (especially here at RPF) can't stand the though of working with anyone from OWS. But, if you can put that aside, a valuable ally may be made.

If OWS'ers begin to research Paul's stance against crony capitalism and corporatism they may find the Libertarian hiding just beneath the skin. Use this to our advantage.
 
Today was a day of victory, no doubt about that.

Ron Paul may very well have started something that will change the rest of our lives (as if he already hasn't). This could be the first of many fatal blows to the Federal Reserve and fiat currency. The resulting brush-fires could swirl into a firestorm of support for the reduction of government and subsequent secrecy. Global peace is possible again, once printing machines are revealed to be most lethal weapon in world. After all, if you can't inflate the currency you have to raise taxes exponentially, and nobody is willing to do that.



I propose reaching out to members of the Occupy Wall Street movement, inform them of the success of H.R 459 and encourage them to contact senators and inform other Occupy activist. This is one of Occupy's battle-crys, but they lack leadership or means of change past mass demonstrations. I understand that many people (especially here at RPF) can't stand the though of working with anyone from OWS. But, if you can put that aside, a valuable ally may be made.

If OWS'ers begin to research Paul's stance against crony capitalism and corporatism they may find the Libertarian hiding just beneath the skin. Use this to our advantage.

Well, what if the neocon flavor of tea decides to revive it's media attack on occupy? Why let them dictate the terms of controversy? Be careful there. The neocon flavor of tea would like nothing better than manufactured opposition. The Media as well. They are on their last limb at this point. Almost reaching out in desperation for us to bite the worm. Don't. Force them to report on the relevant discussion of the day.

All that playing along with trustees of manufactured talking points would do would be to stimulate reality tv type news even more so than it already is. What better way for them to avoid discussing the fed than to get a "patriot" vs 'occupy" shenanigan going again? You know. The old makers and takers gag?

Besides. I specifically recall the libertarian/constitution party actually taking part in as we ll as organize "occupy" wherever it was convenient. I recall also that most of them moved from Paul early on and set up camp for GJ. Now Virgil Goode, I think.

I see your madness but as I said, be careful. Such a move may spell doom for homemade tea. And the instant variety have just been watering at the chops to re-spin the terms of controversy back to Harry and Nancy. Problem...reaction...solution.

Nope. I say finish the game.
 
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If Ron Paul and Kucinich ran it might very well be a winning ticket. Run as the 'Do Something' ticket and stress that 'Although we are opposed on many issues. We are one in our platform.' Done deal. Honestly.
 
I'd say let's not over analyze this. Just ask OWS'ers to reach over to our side of the isle like Dennis K did, it's to their benefit, it's something we have in common.
 
I want to say something in response that I feel is urgent and essential. I ask that anyone reading this please put aside any hostility or disrespect you may feel for me and please focus on what I am trying to say here.

This is about Occupy. I am going to try be concise.


From when I first got into Paul, back in August of last year, I believed that Paul needed Occupy and vice-versa.

Here's why.

IMO, Paul's strength is his philosophy of Liberty.

Occupy's strength is their philosophy of solidarity.

Now, let me explain what I mean.

I started a thread in the off-topic sub-forum yesterday about Albert Camus.

Camus wrote about how Marx's philosophy was wrong, but that solidarity of humanity was essential.

I saw this quote in an article yesterday that made the suggestion that Marxism is making a comeback:

"The New Communism matters not because of its intellectual merits but because it may yet influence layers of young Europeans in the context of an exhausted social democracy, austerity and a self-loathing intellectual culture," wrote Johnson. "Tempting as it is, we can't afford to just shake our heads and pass on by." - from "Why Marxism is on the rise again"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/04/the-return-of-marxism

People are suffering. We all know that.

To me, the REAL Occupy are the people I know personally or whom I have seen in the news who have tried to stop the suffering, from people losing their houses from foreclosure, for example. The people who empathize, but perhaps do not understand or care to understand the Paul view on why people are suffering.

The media has tried to turn Paul into a monster that doesn't care about people. Referencing Ayn Rand, the newsletters, and anything else they can get their hands on, I believe that they have been pretty successful. I have seen comments out on the internet that tell me that the individuals who made those comments did not have the capacity at that moment to believe that Paul is who we know and believe him to be.

But, I believe that there is a larger group of people who "side" with Occupy yet want to believe that Ron Paul is who we know and believe him to be. These people are more intelligent, more humane, and probably have been less degraded in their own lives. They understand suffering, humanity. They also can understand complexity, these are educated people.

I know people like that. I believe that these two "sides" will come together, because they must. Humanity must come together to save itself. And I believe that the majority of people on this earth are intelligent and humane enough, and those that aren't are so either because they have been "humiliated" so much, as Camus puts it, or that they choose evil.

I believe that the philosophies of Liberty and Solidarity MUST come together for our country, the world, to be saved.

That's all I can really say, I think. But I really believe that this is where Occupy and the R3V can finally find each other. I still believe they/we need each other.

If you are interested in what I'm saying here, I URGE you to check out the short essays in this book:

Resistance, Rebellion, and Death by Albert Camus (free epub ebook format)

http://www.epubbud.com/book.php?g=DV6H76TX

and if you really want to see a man in 1940-something turn on Marxism while defending the humanity of the people who suffered for it, check out The Rebel: An Essay of Revolt, again by Camus (I haven't been able to find a free copy online, but I have an ebook copy that I can send anyone, or you will likely be able to find it at your library or of course you can buy it.)

I've been trying to "push" Camus here since I got here because of what I just talked about, and because of the similarities I see between him and Paul. I really believe he nailed Marxism.

To illustrate, here are two quotes that deal directly with what I am talking about.

“At this meridian of thought, the rebel thus rejects divinity in order to share in the struggles and destiny of all men. We shall choose Ithaca, the faithful land, frugal and audacious thought, lucid action, and the generosity of the man who understands. In the light, the earth remains our first and our last love. Our brothers are breathing under the same sky as we; justice is a living thing. Now is born that strange joy which helps one live and die, and which we shall never again postpone to a later time. On the sorrowing earth it is the unresting thorn, the bitter brew, the harsh wind off the sea, the old and the new dawn. With this joy, through long struggle, we shall remake the soul of our time, and a Europe which will exclude nothing. Not even that phantom Nietzsche, who for twelve years after his downfall was continually invoked by the West as the blasted image of its loftiest knowledge and its nihilism; nor the prophet of justice without mercy who lies, by mistake, in the unbelievers’ plot at Highgate Cemetery [Marx - my note here]; nor the deified mummy of the man of action in his glass coffin; nor any part of what the intelligence and energy of Europe have ceaselessly furnished to the pride of a contemptible period. All may indeed live again, side by side with the martyrs of 1905, but on condition that it is understood that they correct one another, and that a limit, under the sun, shall curb them all. Each tells the other that he is not God; this is the end of romanticism. At this moment, when each of us must fit an arrow to his bow and enter the lists anew, to reconquer, within history and in spite of it, that which he owns already, the thin yield of the fields, the brief love of this earth, at this moment when at last a man is born, it is time to forsake our age and its adolescent furies. The bow bends; the wood complains. At the moment of supreme tension, there will leap into flight an unswerving arrow, a shaft that is inflexible and free.” from “Beyond Nihilism” – The Rebel by Albert Camus

"Q: One cannot avoid tackling certain subjects today. The most serious one is a problem for all men: in the struggles dividing the world today, must we really be willing to forget all that is bad one side to light what is worse on the other?

A: Before he died in combat in the last war, Richard Hilary found the phrase that sums up this dilemma: “We were fighting a lie in the name of a half-truth.” He thought he was expressing a very pessimistic idea. But one may even have to fight a lie in the name of a quarter-truth. This is our situation at present. However, the quarter-truth contained in Western society is called liberty. And liberty is the way, and the only way, of perfectibility. Without liberty heavy industry can be perfected, but not justice or truth. Our most recent history, from Berlin to Budapest, ought to convince us of this. In any case, it is the reason for my choice. I have said in this very place that none of the evils totalitarianism claims to remedy is worse than totalitarianism itself. I have not changed my mind. On the contrary, after twenty years of our harsh history, during which I have tried to accept every experience it offered, liberty ultimately seems to me, for societies and for individuals, for labor and for culture, the supreme good that governs all others."

- Albert Camus from "The Wager of Our Generation"

Resistance, Rebellion and Death

Now, I am only suggesting you check his stuff out here to get an understanding of what I am trying to say.

IMO, the REAL Occupy people, who may or may not actually be involved with the actual organization, are about PEOPLE, solidarity. They fight for one another.

I believe, that if the philosophy of Liberty and those who fight for it, and the philosophy of solidarity, the understanding of suffering, of the human condition, and those who fight for it, come together, this world will be where it should be.

I believe that these two groups don't understand yet, and this is my opinion, that they are Yin and Yang.

This is a suggestion, this is my opinion, but I believe it with all of my being.

When I got into Paul, I fell in love with you all because you fight like no other people that I have ever met, and you fight for truth, and justice, and liberty.

When I saw Occupy, I couldn't understand what they were doing. I thought I understood what they were TRYING to do, but I thought they were failing.

But I have learned over the past year a new lesson about faliure.

Part of that lesson was succinctly put by Nassim Taleb in this interview on CNBC (quote is at @8:57, about his upcoming book)

"...a robust system is a system that not just can sustain shocks, but one that improves after every shock"

"The Black Swan" author Nassim Taleb Cheers Ron Paul's Economic Platform on CNBC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6s8a6H7Qts

I believe that the R3V and Occupy have to learn to handle the "shocks" of each other, and "become the system."

There ARE "social darwins" in this world, but I believe that they are the minority. They are the TRUE monsters, the TRUE "selfish" people, as Paul has been unjustly portayed, and the TRUE Marxists, the "prophet of justice without mercy", as Camus said above.

I hope this is helpful. If not, no harm done.

\nn/

<3
 
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I'll have to read this again...once i'm awake.
Anyone here remember Alcatraz? Russell Means? Lots of typical socialist talking points? And something happened. Now you may have different opinions of Means as a person/politician; but something happened; something that moved him from that philosophy to one where he actually sought nomination for president (lost in 1988 to Ron Paul) and later started the Republic of Lakota. He endorsed Ron Paul this election cycle. What did he see that moved him from "Occupy Alcatraz" to libertarian stance. It would be interesting to hear his words on this.
 
As long as I don't have to stand in a circle, hold hands and OM with the whole static filled lot of them I am fine with them coming over to the side of liberty. To coopt it and keep the same BS idealism that has one thought and one dimension is useless.

BTW..yer alright since ya atopped begging for some kind of offishul position. We have a tendency to laugh and mock those.

HTH
Rev9
 
I appreciate it, rev9. ;-). And you have the 'official' coolest name on RPF!!!

If I can be welcomed back here then, by gum, maybe Gingrich is right and we'll all be living on the moon someday!!!

Lols and <3 for you all!!!

(and devil horns) \nn/

:-p
 
But that's only if we fight, with ally's!

How do you want to contact OWS'ers?

Use their 99% campaign, with our rhetoric.

"The dollar has lost 98% of it's value since 1913. I am the 99%"

"The Federal Reserve is a catalyst for perpetual warfare. I am the 99%"

"The worst tax is inflation, which takes from the poor to spoil the rich. I am the 99%"
 
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But that's only if we fight, with ally's!

How do you want to contact OWS'ers?

I contact the leadership of my local OWS, I find them through facebook and talk to them, if you get the right person you can often get a speaking spot at a event or something they hold.
 
To tell you the truth I can't stand the idea, and I know it happens now and again, that we ever align ourselves with the OWS movement.

Most of these people are intellectually incapable of understanding the philosophical foundation on which the principles of the liberty movement stand much less how capitalism is not the problem.

They just have been programmed to think... "Rich bad.... government helps the helpless....old suit and tie guy has my slice of pie.. etc etc".

The more you bring these kind of people into the liberty movement without educating their minds the more you will see media outlets taking any opportunity they can to point a camera at them and say the liberty movement is crazy.

I don't like it at all.
 
Use their 99% campaign, with our rhetoric.

"The dollar has lost 98% of it's value since 1913. I am the 99%"

"The Federal Reserve is a catalyst for perpetual warfare. I am the 99%"

"The worst tax is inflation, which takes from the poor to spoil the rich. I am the 99%"

Add SB 202 in there and #AudittheFED and you have yourself a solid tweet.

+rep
 
I am active in the Occupy movement as well as the RP movement. I've been talking to Occupiers about the Fed and monetary policy, and a lot of them are coming around. I've already talked to my Occupy group about the Reid situation in particular (well posted on our Facebook wall anyway). So I guess I've already gotten started on this. :)
 
These are just some thoughts:

I think what will bring us together are these things:

1. If the philosophies that I mentioned in my OP are sound, the philosophy of liberty and the philosophy of solidarity.

Check. No problem there.

2. If we live by those philosophies.

It's pretty simple. Defend liberty, defend people.

I guess the common theme is defense?

I don't think there is a plan anyone could come up with to "bring together" Occupy and Paul.

So maybe we should focus on what NOT to do.

First off, I would say, we can't "make" it happen. But we can eliminate that which would prevent it.

They are people, just like us and they will decide as individuals what to do.

But we are certainly capable of making the possibility of us working together less possible.

Paul talks about talking with other countries, we need to talk to them.

We can't, nor should we expect anything from them that they would not expect from us.

It has to come down to the 2 prinicples.

Paul talks about how Liberty unites people. So does solidarity.

People, caring for them, helping them, reaching out to them. These are things that we understand, all of us.

So, to look at what is "self-evident": I would say follow that.

Defend liberty, defend people.

You can't have liberty without solidarity, or humanity, and you can't have true solidarity or humanity without liberty, without being free and depending freedom.

I'm just bringing this up. I think we all understand this anyway. I mean, Paul defends liberty, the liberty of people. Solidarity defends people, so that their liberty is not taken.

So I'm just bringing this up. I'm not trying to "start" something, or really explain anything. This is just how I see it and I think that the concept that liberty and solidarity are the same thing is true, as long as the individual principles are sound and we live by them.

I guess I just wanted to make a point. The point is humanity. It cannot survive without liberty and solidarity.

That's what I am saying here.

But like I said, I think we all understand this, as human beings. Defend liberty, defend each other.

So anyway, I'm gonna shut up now because I already feel like I've begun digging my next grave here ;-)

---

Seriously, I think it's pretty simple.

Anyway, look at that, I'm done!!!

---

One last suggestion:

I think that this is not a "priority", but only because this should be an every minute of every day thing for all of us. Defend liberty, defend people.

So we do that as we should be doing, but because we don't have to change anything there, we can focus on the Paul tasks at hand. You know, the ones everyone here works on before I start flapping my gums.

So I guess we solved the Paul/Occupy problem! Defend Liberty, Defend People.

Just make sure that you include EVERYONE. There is no selectivity in Liberty, there is no selectivity in people.

Ok. So now I'm really done. Maybe I can get some sleep now.

I hope I've been helpful. I've REALLY TRIED to curb my ego (that's tough, because I am a very ego-driven person, if you haven't noticed. But I try to build my ego around doing good stuff)

----

As a topic, I don't consider it really that "important" because there is no time limit on Liberty and Solidarity. There are however, time limits on getting people elected, delegates to tampa, passing Audit the Fed, etc.

So this stays in the backs of our minds, in our hearts. If we are true to it, we will be ready if the opportunity ever presents itself.

If two groups of people are truly aligned to the same principles, then they will co-exist in harmony.

If liberty and solidarity are the same, and if both groups live by those principles, then we will be able to co-exist in harmony.

So there has to be a glitch if we have not been able to do that. Those glitches are correctable because they are controlled and corrected by individuals, not by the philosophies.

"Ideology should serve humanity, not vice-versa" (paraphrasing) - Camus

Ok, benedryl kicking in. I hope I was helpful.

<3
 
I'm sorry for my arrogance. It's a big part of who I am. I have been in a lot of pain for a long time. Think Dr. House. I am happier today then I ever have been. The R3V (Vengabus, as I now lovingly call it), has been the latest thing that has helped turn me around.

I'm sorry for how I act. Its hard to explain. My life has SUCKED. But it has gotten so much better because of you all. I'm just trying to help. Please let me know if/when I am out of line.

<3
 
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