Ron Paul and Murray Sabrin are Split on Steve Lonegan for NJ Governor

[rockandrollsouls]

Sounds like Lonegan is a dick but he has a great record at limiting government spending.

No, he didn't. Don't know where you heard that....

Kenny Kaplan is the only good choice.

 

[jt8025]

Since the election is June 2, is there any reason to donate money at this point? Could it actually be used in time?

 

[jmlfod87]

No, he didn't. Don't know where you heard that....

Kenny Kaplan is the only good choice.

he heard that from Ron Paul, who endorsed Lonegan. Lonegan kept government spending below the inflation rate when he was Mayor of Bogota, and well under the state average.

 

[rockandrollsouls]

he heard that from Ron Paul, who endorsed Lonegan. Lonegan kept government spending below the inflation rate when he was Mayor of Bogota, and well under the state average.

Perhaps you should consider doing some research. Just because he spent slightly less than the spending hogs in NJ does not mean he is a conservative nor does it mean he is a good choice for governor.

 

[jmlfod87]

perhaps you should consider doing some research. He has spent his much of his political career to fighting ballot questions that would increase spending, fighting McGreevey's gasoline tax hike, and Corzine toll tax hike. Just because he isn't perfect doesn't mean he wont be an improvement for NJ. Kaplan can't win, wont break 5% of the vote, and wont even be heard from. Lonegan is an articulate advocate of fisccal conservatism. Every time I've seen him speak he has sounded just like ron Paul. He has been critical of the Federal Reserve and supports going back to the gold standard.

Just because you have made friends with the LP doesn't mean they are the only ones who produce viable candidates in NJ. The LP has done nothing for NJ, and will not be able to do anything for NJ until campaign finance law is drastically reformed. That is why Ron Paul and many others suggest working inside the GOP. Breaking through the GOP is the only way we can disrupt the two party system and elect truly principled liberty candidates to public office.

Have fun pushing Kaplan though, too bad he couldn't get RP's endorsement.

 

[rockandrollsouls]

perhaps you should consider doing some research. He has spent his much of his political career to fighting ballot questions that would increase spending, fighting McGreevey's gasoline tax hike, and Corzine toll tax hike. Just because he isn't perfect doesn't mean he wont be an improvement for NJ. Kaplan can't win, wont break 5% of the vote, and wont even be heard from. Lonegan is an articulate advocate of fisccal conservatism. Every time I've seen him speak he has sounded just like ron Paul. He has been critical of the Federal Reserve and supports going back to the gold standard.

Just because you have made friends with the LP doesn't mean they are the only ones who produce viable candidates in NJ. The LP has done nothing for NJ, and will not be able to do anything for NJ until campaign finance law is drastically reformed. That is why Ron Paul and many others suggest working inside the GOP. Breaking through the GOP is the only way we can disrupt the two party system and elect truly principled liberty candidates to public office.

Have fun pushing Kaplan though, too bad he couldn't get RP's endorsement.

Perhaps you should consider living in NJ, or close to or IN his township. You might say he's not "perfect" but it's a different story when that's YOUR money he's not being perfect with. YOUR money he's spending. YOUR money he's being reckless with. YOU might be okay with a candidate that is half-ass but chances are you haven't lived with it already. So what's your idea of improvement? Raising taxes on the majority of individuals in the state? Funneling money to a flawed public education system? How about we vote for someone that completely abolishes the income tax. Oh, wait. You won't even campaign for such an individual; and individual that will truly do away with all the nonsense of excessive taxation, zoning ordinances, and a bunch of other laws that stifle personal freedom and choice. You, sir, are directly attempting to put my personal freedom and liberty in a chokehold.

I'm all for breaking through the GOP; but not with someone that funnels money to a flawed education system and raises taxes on most individuals. I'm for getting a REAL conservative in the GOP...not a pseudo one.

I will have fun pushing or Kaplan because it's better for MY money and MY personal freedom.

Ron Paul couldn't win last election cycle so I take it you compromised principle and voted for someone that could have won. The argument is bullshit and it holds up even less at the state level. You come to NJ and live with a half-assed governor. It's terrible, and I'll be voting for someone that finally puts an end to the BS, rather than perpetuating it with a compromise candidate like Lonegan.

 

[jmlfod87]

Perhaps you should consider living in NJ, or close to or IN his township. You might say he's not "perfect" but it's a different story when that's YOUR money he's not being perfect with. YOUR money he's spending. YOUR money he's being reckless with. YOU might be okay with a candidate that is half-ass but chances are you haven't lived with it already.

I live in the same state as you do, in probably a far more liberal community. Our politicians waste money all the time. I simply rather have someone in office who is willing to waste less, even if he will waste.

I'm all for breaking through the GOP; but not with someone that funnels money to a flawed education system and raises taxes on most individuals. I'm for getting a REAL conservative in the GOP...not a pseudo one.

The only tax policy more conservative than a flat tax is no tax. Seems like you're drinking Christie's kool-aid. His flat tax proposal would be the largest tax cut in NJ history.

I will have fun pushing or Kaplan because it's better for MY money and MY personal freedom.

Ron Paul couldn't win last election cycle so I take it you compromised principle and voted for someone that could have won. The argument is bullshit and it holds up even less at the state level. You come to NJ and live with a half-assed governor. It's terrible, and I'll be voting for someone that finally puts an end to the BS, rather than perpetuating it with a compromise candidate like Lonegan.

1. Its not better for your money because no one is going to hear his message.

2. Ron Paul was able to get into the debates and get his message out. Kaplan wont get into the debates or get his message out. Just like Scheuer wasn't able to. http://www.njlp.org/news/partynews/...to-allow-libertarian-jason-scheurer-in-debate

Every candidate compromises somehwere. Paul compromises on abortion and immigration, but considering you're on these forums you aren't against him. The best candidate is the one who makes few compromises but also has a good chance of winning and spreading the message. Kaplan might be principled, but Lonegan's ability to catch interest far outweighs Kaplan's merits.

 

[jmlfod87]

Renowned Economist Peter Schiff Endorses Lonegan Tax Cut Plan

Trenton, NJ – Conservative Republican Gubernatorial Candidate Steve Lonegan was in the State House today where he received another major endorsement for his tax cut plan. Conservative economist Peter Schiff said that he wholeheartedly endorses Lonegan’s plan to cut taxes and revitalize New Jersey’s economy.

“This is a battleground state for free market principles,” Schiff said. “The smaller the government the more vibrant the free market. New Jersey can’t keep doing the same thing and expect a different result. Why send a Republican to office if he’s just going to keep the status quo? Someone has to turn the tide and Steve Lonegan can do that.”

Peter Schiff is the President of brokerage firm Euro Pacific Capitol Inc., author and regular economic commentator on news networks such as CNN, CNBC and Fox News. He is also widely known as a n outspoken expert on the power of the free market.

“The most important thing that New Jersey can do is become a competitive state with a broader tax base and more jobs, “Schiff said in the press conference. “Lonegan’s plan for New Jersey will lower taxes for people, not just now, but in the future. Lonegan’s tax plan incentifies people to keep working hard. The harder you work the less tax you will have to pay in the future.”

Schiff also added that eliminating the business tax is a key component to the Lonegan Plan. “Ending the tax on businesses will make New Jersey competitive again, keeping businesses in the state and attracting new companies will benefit everyone,” Schiff said. “A lower tax environment is where businesses will grow. There will be no employment opportunities if taxes keep rising and businesses leave.”

Lonegan's tax cut pla n will reduce income tax rates for single filers making over $35,000 a year and couples over $70,000 a year. Coupled with property tax reductions from overturning the Abbott decision, more than 75% of all taxpayers will pay less to the government under the Lonegan tax cut plan.

"My proposed $2.7 Billion tax cut will, once implemented, be the biggest tax cut in New Jersey history and will lead to real sustainable economic growth," Lonegan said. That just doesn't happen when government bureaucrats are trying to micromanage the economy as Obama and Corzine are doing and Christie proposes to do," Lonegan added. "My tax cut plan gets government out of the way, and let's the market do it's thing."

 

[rockandrollsouls]

I live in the same state as you do, in probably a far more liberal community. Our politicians waste money all the time. I simply rather have someone in office who is willing to waste less, even if he will waste.


The only tax policy more conservative than a flat tax is no tax. Seems like you're drinking Christie's kool-aid. His flat tax proposal would be the largest tax cut in NJ history.



1. Its not better for your money because no one is going to hear his message.

2. Ron Paul was able to get into the debates and get his message out. Kaplan wont get into the debates or get his message out. Just like Scheuer wasn't able to. http://www.njlp.org/news/partynews/...to-allow-libertarian-jason-scheurer-in-debate

Every candidate compromises somehwere. Paul compromises on abortion and immigration, but considering you're on these forums you aren't against him. The best candidate is the one who makes few compromises but also has a good chance of winning and spreading the message. Kaplan might be principled, but Lonegan's ability to catch interest far outweighs Kaplan's merits.

No, I think Christie is a scumbag.

His is the largest tax cut in the wrong sense of the word. You can't cut taxes on the wealthy and raise them on the little guy. If you cut taxes, cut them for everyone. Kaplan does this and his proposal would be the largest tax cut in the history of the state and it would be a cut for EVERYONE. That's a REAL tax cut.

And, I'm aware that Schiff is backing Lonegan. However, and I did watch his speech, he did admit that it WOULD be a tax hike on some individuals and justified it as a necessary evil to reach and end result. That doesn't fly with me and I think he's wrong there. You don't raise taxes to make them lower.

And, the notion that this is the best thing we've got is ludicrous. If actually raising taxes on the bulk of individuals is the best we can do with this GOP candidate, we need new GOP candidates. And, I'll actually have my taxes lowered significantly....but I comprehend basic economics. Lonegan's plan is not a good idea, Kaplan has the best plan, and we should be rallying behind Kaplan.

Guess what happens when Lonegan gets voted in and people realize they are actually having their taxes raised? They don't care what the "long term" goal is. They want their money. The end result? More flak to the GOP name, free market policies dubbed ineffective, and we'll get someone far more liberal after he's voted out of office. It's easy to see, so why not just prevent it and vote in a man with a real plan?

 

[Knightskye]

perhaps you should consider doing some research. He has spent his much of his political career to fighting ballot questions that would increase spending, fighting McGreevey's gasoline tax hike, and Corzine toll tax hike. Just because he isn't perfect doesn't mean he wont be an improvement for NJ. Kaplan can't win, wont break 5% of the vote, and wont even be heard from. Lonegan is an articulate advocate of fisccal conservatism. Every time I've seen him speak he has sounded just like ron Paul. He has been critical of the Federal Reserve and supports going back to the gold standard.

Have fun pushing Kaplan though, too bad he couldn't get RP's endorsement.

I like how most of your argument is bashing the Libertarian Party, and the chance of a third party of winning an election. Jason Scheurer didn't get Paul's endorsement either. That doesn't mean he wasn't worth voting for.

more than 75% of all taxpayers will pay less to the government under the Lonegan tax cut plan.

Who are the 25% who will see a tax increase?

 

[jmlfod87]

I like how most of your argument is bashing the Libertarian Party, and the chance of a third party of winning an election. Jason Scheurer didn't get Paul's endorsement either. That doesn't mean he wasn't worth voting for.



Who are the 25% who will see a tax increase?

yea, voting for a third party is a waste of time. The LP is a useless GOP-lite party. I voted for Scheurer, but not because I thought it would make a differnece. When there is a GOP candidate available thats worth supporting you support them, and not the LP just because they are "more principled". You have to weigh the odds with principles. Thats why we support RP here, despite hiim being a Republican.
If an LP candidate ran in his district in 2010, would you support RP or the LP? My point exactly.

Lonegan just showed up today at the Christie HQ for a press release denouncing Christie-Karrow attacks on Mike Doherty, who supported Ron Paul last year.

http://www.lonegan.com/site/Viewer.aspx?iid=22400&mname=Article&rpid=5955

PARSIPPANY -- Speaking in front of Christie Campaign Headquarters in Parsippany, Republican gubernatorial candidate Steve Lonegan called on opponent Chris Christie - as well as Christie's campaign chairman and co-chairman - to distance themselves from a direct mailer and robo-call that attacks the patriotism of a fellow Republican.

Conservative Assemblyman Mike Doherty is challenging Marcia Karrow for the 23rd District State Senate seat in New Jersey. Doherty is running with Steve Lonegan. Karrow is on Chris Christie's ticket.

The Christie-Karrow ticket chose Memorial Day weekend to put out a mail piece that accused Mike Doherty of supporting "Surrender in Iraq". Yesterday, a recorded telephone message was sent to households telling voters that Mike Doherty supports "Surrender in Iraq".

Mike Doherty is a West Point graduate who served for eight years in the United States Army. Mike and his wife, Linda, have three grown sons in military service. Their son Ryan just returned from a tour of duty in Iraq with the United States Marine Corps. Their son Matt is set to be deployed to Iraq with the United States Army. Their son Jared is stationed on remote duty in South Korea with the U.S. Air Force.

"There isn't a single Republican official in all New Jersey with more at stake when it comes to the defense of America," Lonegan said.

The author of this attack on an American veteran is Chris Christie's political consultant, Jamestown Associates. Christie campaign chairman Joe Kyrillos and co-chairman Tom Kean Jr. are Karrow's top supporters.

Neither Mr. Christie or Senator Kean or Senator Kyrillos have ever served in the United States military. Karrow has not served.

"These people are shameless," Lonegan said. "They have no right to question the patriotism of Mike Doherty or his family."

"Today I'm asking Chris Christie, his campaign chairman, and co-chairman to speak up about this outrage and distance themselves both from Marcia Karrow and her consultants immediately," Lonegan added. "It's one thing to see Barack Obama, Jon Corzine and their leftist allies attacking our military. It's another thing to see someone who claims to be a Republican say the same thing."

"Mike Doherty is an Army veteran with three sons serving in harm's way," Lonegan pointed out. "Marcia Karrow's attacks on Mike Doherty's patriotism, as well as his three sons, are just about the lowest thing I've seen in politics in a long, long time. It's just another reason why Republicans need to sweep out-of-power the Christie-Karrow liberals who have made us the minority party and led us to defeat. They're just more of the same."

"It's time for a change, time for a conservative change, and I look forward to working with Senator Mike Doherty to take our state back from the kind of people who engage in these smears. Republicans shouldn't question the patriotism of veterans who have served and who have family members serving. It mocks the work they do to protect the freedoms all of us enjoy. The integrity of the entire Republican party is at stake with this disturbing attack on a military family."

And this is the Christie-Karrow attack ad:

Lonegan took a huge stand in defending Doherty who has been labeled as a "radical Ron paul supporter" and someone who advocates "surrendering in Iraq". He still isn't worthy of your support I presume.

 

[TER]

Bump for Lonegan

 

[rockandrollsouls]

yea, voting for a third party is a waste of time. The LP is a useless GOP-lite party. I voted for Scheurer, but not because I thought it would make a differnece. When there is a GOP candidate available thats worth supporting you support them, and not the LP just because they are "more principled". You have to weigh the odds with principles. Thats why we support RP here, despite hiim being a Republican.
If an LP candidate ran in his district in 2010, would you support RP or the LP? My point exactly.

Lonegan just showed up today at the Christie HQ for a press release denouncing Christie-Karrow attacks on Mike Doherty, who supported Ron Paul last year.

http://www.lonegan.com/site/Viewer.aspx?iid=22400&mname=Article&rpid=5955



And this is the Christie-Karrow attack ad:

Lonegan took a huge stand in defending Doherty who has been labeled as a "radical Ron paul supporter" and someone who advocates "surrendering in Iraq". He still isn't worthy of your support I presume.

You keep comparing these men to Christie and his associates like we are voting for Christie.....and that's not the case. You're comparing apples to oranges.

What I think most people want to know is why should they vote for Lonegan, who does have a questionable record as mayor and whose flat tax will raise taxes on many individuals, when they could vote for Kaplan who is a true libertarian candidate that will ELIMINATE the income tax and turn our economy into a true free market economy by doing away with excessive regulation.

The only answer you seem to have is "He can't win" and "Christie doesn't like Lonegan" which isn't even pertinent to the discussion.

Furthermore, Mike Doherty is very questionable. He may have voted no on some taxes, but he wrote a lot of legislation that isn't exactly conservative friendly. I still don't know enough about Doherty to make a decision, but what I've currently discovered isn't exactly encouraging. Any cookie cutter libertarian for the same position will, likely, look miles better.

So why shouldn't we vote for the more principled candidates?

 

[jmlfod87]

Lonegan's tax plan is great. You are demagouging the issue, just like Christie is, that it will raise some people's taxes. IT WILL BE THE LARGEST TAX REDUCTION IN NJ HISTORY.

That is why you should support Lonegan. The larger the budget, the larger the state. Lonegan will shrink the size of the budget more than any othr viable candidate. I really don't give a shit that people who don't pay any taxes are going to have to pay a few dollars of taxes. Thats what I call social justice, where everyone pays the same percentage. Just because people are dirt poor doesn't mean wealthier individuals should have to pay a higher tax burden to make up for it.

Lonegan has a plan of massive budget cuts, massive tax cuts, and deregulation. Thats why I support him, thats why Ron Paul supports him, thats why Peter Schiff supports him. Electing Lonegan will be a tremendous boost to the NJ economy. If you actually care about the NJ economy you would support Lonegan. Instead you are going to allow him him to get steamrolled by Christie, why? Because he doesn't want to legalize drugs? We doesn't want to abolish public education? He doesn't want to legalize gay marriage? Those strikes are peanuts compared to all the benfits of electing Loneagn.

Question: If Lonegan is such a bad candidate, how come all the big names that supported RP support Lonegan?

 

[rockandrollsouls]

Lonegan's tax plan is great. You are demagouging the issue, just like Christie is, that it will raise some people's taxes. IT WILL BE THE LARGEST TAX REDUCTION IN NJ HISTORY.

That is why you should support Lonegan. The larger the budget, the larger the state. Lonegan will shrink the size of the budget more than any othr viable candidate. I really don't give a shit that people who don't pay any taxes are going to have to pay a few dollars of taxes. Thats what I call social justice, where everyone pays the same percentage. Just because people are dirt poor doesn't mean wealthier individuals should have to pay a higher tax burden to make up for it.

Lonegan has a plan of massive budget cuts, massive tax cuts, and deregulation. Thats why I support him, thats why Ron Paul supports him, thats why Peter Schiff supports him. Electing Lonegan will be a tremendous boost to the NJ economy. If you actually care about the NJ economy you would support Lonegan. Instead you are going to allow him him to get steamrolled by Christie, why? Because he doesn't want to legalize drugs? We doesn't want to abolish public education? He doesn't want to legalize gay marriage? Those strikes are peanuts compared to all the benfits of electing Loneagn.

Question: If Lonegan is such a bad candidate, how come all the big names that supported RP support Lonegan?

No, I am not. I wouldn't consider raising taxes on many New Jerseyians "great." Cutting taxes for the more wealthy at the expense of the working class isn't great, nor is raising taxes on the wealthy class and cutting them for the lower class. Both are wrong.

So why should I choose someone that does that over someone that cuts the income tax for EVERYONE, and whose plan is undeniably better for business and citizens? And Schiff justified his endorsement of the tax plan as a necessary evil, and he's made it very clear in the speech I heard. "Raising taxes now is nothing for the long run." Sorry, that doesn't fly with me.

Furthermore, Christie won't come close to steamrolling Lonegan....not from the signs and press I've seen in my area and surrounding areas. Haven't seen one Christie sign....have seen literally hundreds of Lonegan signs.

Additionally, Ron Paul has supported questionable characters in the past and it's well known he doesn't always scrutinize those he endorses.

I do care about the NJ economy which is why I'm supporting the man with the MUCH better plan for the economy. I'm not supporting Lonegan because HE'S NOT A CONSERVATIVE. In addition to all of the things you've mentioned his plan will hardly put a dent in our troubled economy because he's not doing anything to help it. He won't be changing zoning ordinances or regulations, he won't be cutting taxes like Kaplan. He's not a free market guy like Kaplan is and simply put Kaplan is the better person for the state and YOU KNOW IT. The only excuse you have is "He can't win." Give me a break. Lonegan ain't no conservative and he certainly isn't getting my vote. I'm not willing to compromise my principles and vote a moderate into office when there is a much better alternative a stone's throw away.

 

[jmlfod87]

If you dont think the largest tax cuts in New Jersey history would help our economy there is no talking to you. Peter Schiff supports Lonegan tax plan. Maintaing an injust system is worse than cutting tax for the wealthy and raising them for the poor. If he could abolish taxe all together he certainly would, but doesn't want to look like a crank like Ron Paul did. He has a feasible plan that would free up major capital to stimulate the private sector.

Lonegan is definitely a free market guy. You want to pretend Lonegan is someone he isn't. Keep living in lalaland.

And lastly, Lonegan is still down in the polls. Last time I checked he was down by 9% with likely Republican voters. Looking at yard signs is not a scientific method of analyzing support.

 

[rockandrollsouls]

If you dont think the largest tax cuts in New Jersey history would help our economy there is no talking to you. Peter Schiff supports Lonegan tax plan. Maintaing an injust system is worse than cutting tax for the wealthy and raising them for the poor. If he could abolish taxe all together he certainly would, but doesn't want to look like a crank like Ron Paul did. He has a feasible plan that would free up major capital to stimulate the private sector.

Lonegan is definitely a free market guy. You want to pretend Lonegan is someone he isn't. Keep living in lalaland.

And lastly, Lonegan is still down in the polls. Last time I checked he was down by 9% with likely Republican voters. Looking at yard signs is not a scientific method of analyzing support.

You keep saying "in history" like it means something. Let me tell you, NJ does not have any history of great tax cuts. Kaplan will cut by FAR MORE. And, we've went over this numerous times so you clearly aren't reading, Schiff acknowledges there will be a "tax hike." He even calls it a "tax hike." Additionally, his predictions haven't been performing too well so I'd be skeptical to use him as any kind of indicator of success.

Lonegan is not a free market guy. Raising taxes on MOST individuals to cut taxes for SOME individuals is not free market. Cutting taxes for ALL individuals is free market. Eliminating the state sponsored school monopoly is free market. Eliminating excessive regulation is free market.

You clearly don't know the definition of "free market." Lonegan is anything but.

 

[Epic]

You keep saying "in history" like it means something. Let me tell you, NJ does not have any history of great tax cuts. Kaplan will cut by FAR MORE. And, we've went over this numerous times so you clearly aren't reading, Schiff acknowledges there will be a "tax hike." He even calls it a "tax hike." Additionally, his predictions haven't been performing too well so I'd be skeptical to use him as any kind of indicator of success.

Lonegan is not a free market guy. Raising taxes on MOST individuals to cut taxes for SOME individuals is not free market. Cutting taxes for ALL individuals is free market. Eliminating the state sponsored school monopoly is free market. Eliminating excessive regulation is free market.

You clearly don't know the definition of "free market." Lonegan is anything but.

Lonegan wants a flat tax, which is by definition fair (if one accepts taxation as moral). Sure it might be raising it very slightly for some people - but they will be paying the same percentage as everyone else. Furthermore, they will benefit by the greater availability of jobs and general economic progress when limited government and a favorable business environment is allowed.

 

[rockandrollsouls]

Lonegan wants a flat tax, which is by definition fair (if one accepts taxation as moral). Sure it might be raising it very slightly for some people - but they will be paying the same percentage as everyone else. Furthermore, they will benefit by the greater availability of jobs and general economic progress when limited government and a favorable business environment is allowed.

And can anyone tell my why someone who is truly free market would vote for a flat tax over the elimination of the income tax?

There is no logical reason.

 

[TER]

And can anyone tell my why someone who is truly free market would vote for a flat tax over the elimination of the income tax?

There is no logical reason.

Because Lonegan has a better chance of winning than Kaplan?

Truth is, the truly free markets will not emerge over night. It will take steps to get us there. And Lonegan has an astronomically statisticaly greater chance of getting us there than Kaplan at this very moment in time (with elections around the corner)