You keep believing that. I agree with the OP completely, to say he's made it crystal clear is just not true. Besides, I think alot of you spend to much time with other RP supporters, do you consider that last night was the first time alot of people heard him speak? Most voters I know of might spend a whopping 5 minutes actucally looking into the candidates, but so many of you continue under this notion that people are going to go do all these hours of research to figure out what Ron really meant, bottom line I live in a mostly Republican town and while I hesitate to call most of them NeoCons the only thing they got from Ron last night was that he would "give peace a chance", regardless of whether or not their fears are justified, alot of people fear Iran, and his answer did not satisfy them.
Ron Paul absolutely MUST clarify his position on national defense.
- Thread starter Clem Kadiddlehopper
- Start date
You keep believing that. I agree with the OP completely, to say he's made it crystal clear is just not true. Besides, I think alot of you spend to much time with other RP supporters, do you consider that last night was the first time alot of people heard him speak? Most voters I know of might spend a whopping 5 minutes actucally looking into the candidates, but so many of you continue under this notion that people are going to go do all these hours of research to figure out what Ron really meant, bottom line I live in a mostly Republican town and while I hesitate to call most of them NeoCons the only thing they got from Ron last night was that he would "give peace a chance", regardless of whether or not their fears are justified, alot of people fear Iran, and his answer did not satisfy them.
newbitech
Member
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2007
- Messages
- 8,847
I know how frustrating it is. I have a few "nuts" that just won't crack in my neck of the woods too. There is just nothing you can say to these people if they are not willing to spend more than 5 minutes to understand what is happening in the world. A lot of people do fear Iran, but the solution to fears about anything requires confronting the source of the fear. If those folks aren't satisfied with going the peaceful route to resolving their fears, then the solution of peace will only become obvious to them once they realize that the source of their fear is on the other side of the mirror.
Last edited:
Matthew5
Banned
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2011
- Messages
- 2,473
No additional efforts are needed by Ron Paul. The burdens falls on us as supporters to help clarify.
newbitech
Member
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2007
- Messages
- 8,847
ding ding ding +rep. Good that you noticed this. Just keep in mind that this idea too will be a hard message to "clarify" because people really do need to realize these things on their own. The best we can do as supporters is understand that message to it's core and live our lives by it. That shining example speaks so much louder than words.
'
To a point, but eventually they need to hear it from Ron, I can only get them to listen, and I do, I have watched on more than one occassion where I've had people interested then he starts in with his "Iran wants to feel safe" and I watch any support I've built drain right out of the room. I WISH Ron would talk about foreign policy like I do, or even as I've seen him do himself in interviews, he would have so many more votes.
Okie RP fan
Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2011
- Messages
- 3,695
It would help if Ron Paul made soundbite remarks during debates like "I do NOT support Iran" or "Israel is our great ally and friend, but let's quit keeping them dependent through our foreign 'aid.'"
Or, "I want endless wars on all Muslims" that should help win over some supporters...
It's up to us now to educate our family and friends, and people through the Internet (although, don't spend too much time doing that) about Ron Paul's foreign policy and how all the other candidates want endless wars and sky high debt.
Or, "I want endless wars on all Muslims" that should help win over some supporters...
It's up to us now to educate our family and friends, and people through the Internet (although, don't spend too much time doing that) about Ron Paul's foreign policy and how all the other candidates want endless wars and sky high debt.
The Campaign needs to roll out an Ad FAST on Ron Paul's foreign policy. The other Candidates and especially media are going to go after him big time as being outside of the Republican mainstream, unwilling to defend America's interests and being an isolationist.
We all know this is dead wrong, however it is up to Campaign Braintrust to compliment Ron Paul with a hard hitting ad explaining how endless wars are destroying our country, that are military is broken after ten years of wars, and that Presidents have to follow the Constitution.
Also, highlight that the Troops Support Ron Paul's Foreign Policy position.
Without a hard hitting commercial our momentum will be slowed.
Serial Hypocrisy has run its course on the air.....
We all know this is dead wrong, however it is up to Campaign Braintrust to compliment Ron Paul with a hard hitting ad explaining how endless wars are destroying our country, that are military is broken after ten years of wars, and that Presidents have to follow the Constitution.
Also, highlight that the Troops Support Ron Paul's Foreign Policy position.
Without a hard hitting commercial our momentum will be slowed.
Serial Hypocrisy has run its course on the air.....
hazek
Member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2007
- Messages
- 4,688
Half of people in this thread who think Ron did ok last night are victims of the curse of knowledge. If you don't know what that is, look it up.
The problem of the curse of knowledge is that we understand what Ron meant while the masses lack this knowledge and probably and most likely misunderstood Ron's answers for pacifism. Especially after the MSM is done with smearing him.
Ron needs to realize that when he speaks to broader audiences he needs to step away from specific examples such as the nuclear Iran trap and approach it more broadly. I really hoped his answer to the Iran question would have been something like this:
What would you do if you received info Iran has a nuke tomorrow?
"Two things. First I'd follow the rule of law, the U.S. Constitution. So if the information was credible and there was a real threat I'd present it to the congress and if they thought it was a real threat I'd ask them to declare war and then I'd be all out, I'd fight it with all the military power we have, win it and get it over with fast.
Second I'd do my best to exhaust all the other diplomatic options first by talking to who ever would threaten us and try and resolve a conflict before it escalates into dragging us into another war that would cost us American lives and worsen our financial situation. As for your example of Iran, I'd make use of our 12000 diplomats and I'd try and talk to them and reason with them before anything else. Besides there's no evidence currently that suggest they are making a bomb or want to attack our country."
I guarantee you, an answer like that would go over much better than what he did last night specifically because people only heard the last part and lack the knowledge of what he would do facing an actual threat. That's the real question they asked anyway... What would you do facing a real threat to national security? It's just that they wrapped it into the Iran nuclear issue and Ron fell for it and went and argued whether or not Iran actually is a threat instead of clarify how he would deal with any potential threat.
I sincerely hope someone from the campaign reads this and relays this message to him because after last night I'm sure the soft votes will get scared and switch.
The problem of the curse of knowledge is that we understand what Ron meant while the masses lack this knowledge and probably and most likely misunderstood Ron's answers for pacifism. Especially after the MSM is done with smearing him.
Ron needs to realize that when he speaks to broader audiences he needs to step away from specific examples such as the nuclear Iran trap and approach it more broadly. I really hoped his answer to the Iran question would have been something like this:
What would you do if you received info Iran has a nuke tomorrow?
"Two things. First I'd follow the rule of law, the U.S. Constitution. So if the information was credible and there was a real threat I'd present it to the congress and if they thought it was a real threat I'd ask them to declare war and then I'd be all out, I'd fight it with all the military power we have, win it and get it over with fast.
Second I'd do my best to exhaust all the other diplomatic options first by talking to who ever would threaten us and try and resolve a conflict before it escalates into dragging us into another war that would cost us American lives and worsen our financial situation. As for your example of Iran, I'd make use of our 12000 diplomats and I'd try and talk to them and reason with them before anything else. Besides there's no evidence currently that suggest they are making a bomb or want to attack our country."
I guarantee you, an answer like that would go over much better than what he did last night specifically because people only heard the last part and lack the knowledge of what he would do facing an actual threat. That's the real question they asked anyway... What would you do facing a real threat to national security? It's just that they wrapped it into the Iran nuclear issue and Ron fell for it and went and argued whether or not Iran actually is a threat instead of clarify how he would deal with any potential threat.
I sincerely hope someone from the campaign reads this and relays this message to him because after last night I'm sure the soft votes will get scared and switch.
Last edited:
Okie RP fan
Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2011
- Messages
- 3,695
Agreed. They need to make a quick foreign policy ad that shows he is not isolationist and define how he is different. Quit running "serial hypocrisy" and run an ad on foreign policy.
I hope it's not too late, and hopefully, this money bomb today pulls in enough money that they may have enough left over to do so.
Let's get to promoting!
raystone
Member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2007
- Messages
- 1,743
He has made it crystal clear to you because you are looking for it. You underestimate the bias (or refer to your D. above) of a large percentage of Fox viewers/GOP primary voters. We need those votes.
Here's a comment quote from a conservative facebook page. This is what we are dealing with. These people are loud, and they will prevent enough conservatives from being confident enough to vote Ron Paul.
"I thought Dr. Paul was doing well at first until he imploded into an uncontrolled rant on foreign policies....felt sorry for him. Regardless of what one might think about his views, he should step aside as the icon for Libertarianism...his time came and passed on the public stage."
Grassroots is already on overtime trying to clear up Dr. Paul's foreign policy
.
If Dr. Paul would just say what he said last night (twice) that he will go to war with a Congressional Declaration of War a little clearer, in a standalone statement, and at a 5th grade level of understanding.
Having said that, my most effective method for bringing warmongering conservatives around is posting information on troops donating twice as much to Ron Paul as all other GOP candidates combined. It makes their heads spin.
Also, when the warmongers start calling us Paul supporters derogatory names, ask if they are referring to our military men and women as they support Ron Paul 2 to 1 with donations.
Attachments
newbitech
Member
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2007
- Messages
- 8,847
I understand where you are coming from. Part of the problem and please don't take this personally, but part of the problem you may be having is that you are watching MSM war propaganda attacks against Ron Paul and you are hearing his response to it. I have trained myself to filter out propaganda. This didn't occur overnight, in fact it's been about hmm going on 9 years now that I have given up watching television.
Some people don't have that problem tho. Some people are semi-immune to it, like younger people. I am 34 for a point of reference. No one is totally immune so it's best to treat TV like a bio hazard and only approach it with the proper personal protective equipment.
I would encourage you to take a slightly different approach when dealing with potential converts. Blow off the MSM like the MSM blows off the ideas we are embracing. Make the conversation personal by relating to everyday life here in the United States. Everyone has someone in their neighborhood who is always going around to the neighbors with gossip. These nosy people are tolerated, but not really liked. Well imagine if that nosy neighbor started going around taking a crap in everyone's yard instead of starting gossip. Eventually, someone is going to get tired of shoveling the shit and start building a crap flinging machine to launch the crap right back at them.
The United States is the nosy neighbor taking a crap in everyone's yard. Iranians are sick of it, and they are not alone. Russia is sick of it. Pakistan is sick of it. China is sick of it. Venezuela is sick of it. So there is a coalition of neighbors building up against that nosy neighbor who can't seem to figure out that crapping in other people's yards is a bad idea. If people are really that afraid of what Iran might do. Just think, Iran is just the easiest country to keep shitting on because their crap flinging machine can't make it across the street.
cavalier973
Member
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2010
- Messages
- 338
This. Those of us who support Ron Paul already know his foreign policy positions. If it hasn't been a deal-killer (even if we disagree to some extent) before last night, it's not a deal-killer now. It's not like Ron Paul has kept his foreign policy view hidden, and that now a bunch of people are surprised and hurt after listening to the debate last night.
extrmmxer
Member
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2007
- Messages
- 469
Great conversation in this thread. Ron Paul supporters are the best.
He needs to emphasize on Leno tonight, he gets the most donations from the military and he voted to go after those responseable for 9/11. He needs to show strength without being a warmonger. He did mention last night, he'd go to war with a legal declaration. He needs to figure out a better explaination to why Iran wants a nuke. Don't just say "of course they want a nuke, look whats around them....Pakistan, Israel, India, etc." To the educated Paul supporter we know what he means, however for the casual listener it could be a cause of concern.
I think comparing the push for war with Iran and the propaganda that resulted in the Iraq war is a good strategy.
He needs to emphasize on Leno tonight, he gets the most donations from the military and he voted to go after those responseable for 9/11. He needs to show strength without being a warmonger. He did mention last night, he'd go to war with a legal declaration. He needs to figure out a better explaination to why Iran wants a nuke. Don't just say "of course they want a nuke, look whats around them....Pakistan, Israel, India, etc." To the educated Paul supporter we know what he means, however for the casual listener it could be a cause of concern.
I think comparing the push for war with Iran and the propaganda that resulted in the Iraq war is a good strategy.
Last edited:
Indiana4Paul
Member
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2011
- Messages
- 148
I agree completely with this. To me this is the biggest problem.
Ron Paul's camp needs to be the one defining Ron Paul on the issues. I think a major move by the campaign to redefine the Foreign Policy issue is warranted.
