Ron Paul 2012: We are Running to Win, Right?

Ron Paul 2012: Running to Win or to Educate?

  • Running to WIN

    Votes: 136 82.4%
  • Running to EDUCATE

    Votes: 22 13.3%
  • Not Sure

    Votes: 7 4.2%

  • Total voters
    165
anything less than victory is failure. that is just reality. that doesn't mean there can't be some good in failure - but we need to be in this for the WIN.

while i know we are in this to win it... and like all winners, we need to accept it and think like it...


Mild success is still success... Goldwater anyone???


Obviously we are in this to save ours and our nation's ass, so we must/will win
 
Mild success is still success... Goldwater anyone???

Not to contradict your main point. I basically agree with it.

But could you spell out what you mean by Goldwater's mild success? What good really came of it?

It looks to me like all the young Goldwaterites who got inspired to get politically active by him went on to become the very same GOP establishment that does so much to expand its power in the state and to suppress those of us who would get in their way.
 
The difference won't be Ron, the difference will be US. We, the activist core of RP08, have a metric pluck-ton more experience than we did 2 years ago... That experience will mean the difference between defeat and victory.

Excellent point!
 
Really? What about Rand Paul winning in Kentucky? What about all these other outsiders winning elections for Senate and House elections and governorships? How could you say such a thing?
I can say such a thing because I'm a realist, perhaps? Because I recognize that while liberty is growing in popularity in some small pockets of the country, there's simply no possible way RP would carry California, New York, Florida, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan or any number of other states? We can reconsider this when pro-freedom candidates start winning seats in places like NYC, Detroit, and LA.

It took generations to get the mess we have today. The enemy is in control of the educational system, is the darling of the popular media, and sends big checks every month to a substantial portion of the population -- checks that RP's election would quite possibly reduce or eliminate.

On top of that, the small-government tea party movement has been hijacked by the Sarah Palin/Glen Beck theocratic wing of the Republican Party. How often does RP even get mentioned in relation to that movement anymore? How many of those "tea party" candidates are theocratic war-mongers in disguise? And after the non-ground zero non-mosque debacle, a lot of sane people are ashamed to be associated with that movement anyway.

People have to understand why an all-powerful state won't work before anything substantial changes. Yes, there are millions who understand that now; there are also millions who stick their fingers in their ears and shout "na na na" to avoid being exposed to the truth. That's not something that's going to be cured in a year or two, as much as I wish otherwise.

We're much more likely to end up with a theocracy than we are with a pro-liberty president.
 
The difference won't be Ron, the difference will be US. We, the activist core of RP08, have a metric pluck-ton more experience than we did 2 years ago... That experience will mean the difference between defeat and victory.
Plus we have time on our side. Understanding Ron and becoming a supporter is a bit of a learning curve for the average person and that takes time. I didn't get really active in the camapign until mid summer 2007. I know many other came after me, probably in the fall or around the time of the big money bombs in late Nov/Dec. We had less than 2 months to turn people on to Ron after those money bombs got him some attention. This time we will have over a year!
 
Somebody call the ambalamps.

LtJsN.gif

I like the poll results.
 
Plus we have time on our side. Understanding Ron and becoming a supporter is a bit of a learning curve for the average person and that takes time. I didn't get really active in the camapign until mid summer 2007. I know many other came after me, probably in the fall or around the time of the big money bombs in late Nov/Dec. We had less than 2 months to turn people on to Ron after those money bombs got him some attention. This time we will have over a year!

I'm a late comer. Didn't climb on board till early 2009:o
 
I can say such a thing because I'm a realist, perhaps? Because I recognize that while liberty is growing in popularity in some small pockets of the country, there's simply no possible way RP would carry California, New York, Florida, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan or any number of other states? We can reconsider this when pro-freedom candidates start winning seats in places like NYC, Detroit, and LA.

It took generations to get the mess we have today. The enemy is in control of the educational system, is the darling of the popular media, and sends big checks every month to a substantial portion of the population -- checks that RP's election would quite possibly reduce or eliminate.

On top of that, the small-government tea party movement has been hijacked by the Sarah Palin/Glen Beck theocratic wing of the Republican Party. How often does RP even get mentioned in relation to that movement anymore? How many of those "tea party" candidates are theocratic war-mongers in disguise? And after the non-ground zero non-mosque debacle, a lot of sane people are ashamed to be associated with that movement anyway.

People have to understand why an all-powerful state won't work before anything substantial changes. Yes, there are millions who understand that now; there are also millions who stick their fingers in their ears and shout "na na na" to avoid being exposed to the truth. That's not something that's going to be cured in a year or two, as much as I wish otherwise.

We're much more likely to end up with a theocracy than we are with a pro-liberty president.
It's hard to say because a candidate like Ron is rarely seen on the political scene. Ron is a complete X-factor. I truly believe if people are able to hear his message they will be drawn in. Most people are libertarian in their hearts even if they don't realize it. His message clearly reasonates with those that hear it, its getting that messages in a coherent manner drilled into the psyche of the average person. With enough time, effort, and money we can make it quite palatable. In 2008 nobody outside of online political junkies knew who Ron was, let alone what he stood for. Like I said before, there is a learning curve to "get" Ron.
 
Ron Paul winning this go around? hmmmnnn

Many things need to happen

he can't have "followers" look like crack pots pushing 9/11 truther shit (whether true or not)
he cant talk about removing the irs and federal reserve and going to gold
he can't talk about ALOT OF SHIT

however if he would just run on a solid platform that dems and repub sheep would accept he could THEN once in office take control and handle some shit.

There are many ways to win, its like sales. Yes you can be 100% honest with every point however you will lose sales except those who like exactly what it is you are offering. Instead you locate what it is the person is after and talk up the product on THEIR hot buttons without mentioning other stuff.

so

1. economy - reduce debt without saying you are removing EVERYTHING
2. health care - hes a damn doctor, who better
3. war - this will be touchy for dems and repubs


all the ron paul supporters last time simply made him look crazy, we ran around screaming how no one would listen to him or us, then screamed about 9-11, gun rights, marijuana rights, removing the entire tax system among other things.

what did we think was going to happen?
 
Ron Paul winning this go around? hmmmnnn

Many things need to happen

he can't have "followers" look like crack pots pushing 9/11 truther shit (whether true or not)
he cant talk about removing the irs and federal reserve and going to gold
he can't talk about ALOT OF SHIT

however if he would just run on a solid platform that dems and repub sheep would accept he could THEN once in office take control and handle some shit.

There are many ways to win, its like sales. Yes you can be 100% honest with every point however you will lose sales except those who like exactly what it is you are offering. Instead you locate what it is the person is after and talk up the product on THEIR hot buttons without mentioning other stuff.

so

1. economy - reduce debt without saying you are removing EVERYTHING
2. health care - hes a damn doctor, who better
3. war - this will be touchy for dems and repubs


all the ron paul supporters last time simply made him look crazy, we ran around screaming how no one would listen to him or us, then screamed about 9-11, gun rights, marijuana rights, removing the entire tax system among other things.

what did we think was going to happen?
How do you stop that though concerning the 9/11 truthers? They latched onto Ron for some reason, even though he rejected their government conspiracy theory. They are clearly a rather dense lot.
 
Paul just needs to be SUPER forceful with the 9/11 truther crap. distance himself fully, basically tell the reporter asking him about to shove it, nicely.
 
Paul just needs to be SUPER forceful with the 9/11 truther crap. distance himself fully, basically tell the reporter asking him about to shove it, nicely.

it would help him, but it's just not of part of his personality telling people what to do.
 
I don't think people are getting the point yet

whether it is true or not ISN'T THE DAMN POINT

the point is

WINNING

it is AFTER THE FACT

once in office that something beneficial can happen

I think politicians and those who represent them need more salesmanship to actually accomplish something.
 
We must ask ourselves "how do we define success"?

As a country? with nine years of war with no defined exit strategy, and redefined purpose. 14 trillion dollars of debt, a shit poor school system, bailouts for "to big to fail", over 9% unemployment, etc...dam that headache is coming back.
 
As a country? with nine years of war with no defined exit strategy, and redefined purpose. 14 trillion dollars of debt, a shit poor school system, bailouts for "to big to fail", over 9% unemployment, etc...dam that headache is coming back.
Mission Accomplished!
 
I do not care about educating people, or "freeing minds." If we happen to wake some people up along the way, that is cool. But we are in it to WIN IT this time!!!
 
What would be more effective ? An extra 10 million liberty-lovers who'll vote, donate to and campaign for local, state and federal candidates and who'll will work to get their friends and family to do the same;

or

A President Paul who won by fooling ignorant people into voting for him through obfuscation and clever campaigning and who'll be confronted and stopped by a hostile congress, media and public the moment he tries to make any significant changes to the status quo ?

Also, which one is more likely to happen ?


I'll probably change my stance once the campaign and debates get underway; but from the safe distance of September 2010, trying to win at all costs seems like a bad idea.

If Ron runs in 2012, I think the best strategy is to use the campaign to spread the message of liberty and hope for the best. Worst case scenario is that we'll have a much larger movement, have more of our issues in the mainstream and have more influence within the Republican party.
 
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