Rise of the "HomoCon"

So this is probably also why incest and having sex with children USED to be okay, but now it's not. What got God to change His mind? :)

God does not change, but His plan for the human race may appear to change from our perspective as it is more completely revealed. From God's perspective, we are all children of Adam and Eve, so from the 'consistency' point of view no one has not committed incest, if your basis for defining it is the act itself, instead of God's plan. It was vital to God (then and now) to protect the developing race from genetic defects or contamination. Early cohabitation was permitted early because the early generations after Adam and Eve were more perfect, thus capable of resisting mutation as the population necessarily had to grow. In this fashion the race is still one human race, and thus all equally remain subject to the 'once for all' salvation provided by Christ. What makes blood relative incest okay early on (but not now) consistent is God's purposes, not the act itself.
 
That in fact is what the current precedent of law is. It begs the question to what GOProud and groups like it are trying to accomplish. Personally I am not particularly "proud" of my sexuality. It's a private matter completely.

GOProud has an agenda certainly. It's primarily neo-conservatism which is essentially political authoritarianism. Gay marriage for instance asks society to give a government mandated stamp of approval on gay relationships.

You continue to say GOProud is a neocon organization without offering PROOF, links please :) GOProud my very well be neocon but I have not seen any proof of it. I have visited their site and browsed around quite a bit.

You mention Gay Marriage. I took a look at their published agenda and the only place it mentions marriage at all is here "Opposing any anti-gay federal marriage amendment." Which from our view point should be fine because I think most of us agree this is a state issue.

I have asked you several times to link proof and you continue to rant without linking any proof at all. Sir, it is time to put up or shut up!
 
You continue to say GOProud is a neocon organization without offering PROOF, links please :) GOProud my very well be neocon but I have not seen any proof of it. I have visited their site and browsed around quite a bit.

You mention Gay Marriage. I took a look at their published agenda and the only place it mentions marriage at all is here "Opposing any anti-gay federal marriage amendment." Which from our view point should be fine because I think most of us agree this is a state issue.

I have asked you several times to link proof and you continue to rant without linking any proof at all. Sir, it is time to put up or shut up!

Tony, links have been provide to their foreign policy positions. They have been very cozy in treatment of Benjamin Netenyahu. That is a huge red flag.
http://blog.goproud.org/?p=70
http://blog.goproud.org/?p=195

"6 - FIGHTING GLOBAL EXTREMISTS - Standing strong against radical regimes who seek to criminalize gays and lesbians."
Any fighting of global extremists is a huge red flag.
http://goproud.org/?page=legislativeagenda

Praise for and association with Rudy Giuliani and Newt Gingrich is a huge red flag.

"GOProud Praises Bipartisan Senate Resolution Condemning Proposed Anti-gay Uganda Law"
A willingness to try and interfere with another country's personal affairs is a huge red flag.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and hangs out with other ducks. I say it's a duck.
 
God does not change, but His plan for the human race may appear to change from our perspective as it is more completely revealed. From God's perspective, we are all children of Adam and Eve, so from the 'consistency' point of view no one has not committed incest, if your basis for defining it is the act itself, instead of God's plan. It was vital to God (then and now) to protect the developing race from genetic defects or contamination. Early cohabitation was permitted early because the early generations after Adam and Eve were more perfect, thus capable of resisting mutation as the population necessarily had to grow. In this fashion the race is still one human race, and thus all equally remain subject to the 'once for all' salvation provided by Christ. What makes blood relative incest okay early on (but not now) consistent is God's purposes, not the act itself.

Interesting story.
 
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Tony, links have been provide to their foreign policy positions. They have been very cozy in treatment of Benjamin Netenyahu. That is a huge red flag.
http://blog.goproud.org/?p=70
http://blog.goproud.org/?p=195

"6 - FIGHTING GLOBAL EXTREMISTS - Standing strong against radical regimes who seek to criminalize gays and lesbians."
Any fighting of global extremists is a huge red flag.
http://goproud.org/?page=legislativeagenda

Praise for and association with Rudy Giuliani and Newt Gingrich is a huge red flag.

"GOProud Praises Bipartisan Senate Resolution Condemning Proposed Anti-gay Uganda Law"
A willingness to try and interfere with another country's personal affairs is a huge red flag.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and hangs out with other ducks. I say it's a duck.

None of your links encourage imposing US economic or military force against another nation, none of them. The blogs contain very little commentary, which I find rather dull, and generally link or quote another source concerning a gay related issue.

You seem to think it is wrong to TALK about another countries policies, I disagree. There is nothing wrong with TALKING but there is a problem with imposing force on another country.

You talking about fighting, but you can fight with words and I have yet to see GOProud advocate using economic or military force against anyone.
 
the comments from some of you young people on this forum underscore EXACTLY what I'm talkin about..

You have all been so corrupted by modern society that you can't even see it. Moral standards that were in place for THOUSANDS OF YEARS before you were even born were only overturned in the past 40 years.

These mores existed for a reason. They served as the basis for the formation of stable families and stable communities.

You fools who scoff at what has happened to our society really think that all we need is Austrian Economics and everything will be ok?

Look around.....half the damn country is medicated or addicted to booze, drugs etc. All trying to fill the emptiness inside...an emptiness caused by a dgenerate society that thinks "happiness" is to be found in material things and easy sex instead of faith in a higher power, stable relationships and traditional families.

50% divorce.....young people who never marry or have kids.....herpes, AIDS, screwed up emotional development, abortions, perversions, depression......

How's that sexual revolution thingey workin out for ya?

Sure can't argue with your post. That is what happened to the Roman empire, took them 1000 years to fall.

America will fall in less than 300.

Seems society can never learn from history, only repeat it.
 
Claptrap straw man. Sex does not equal sexual immorality. God grieves when sin is committed against Him, as it violates His purposes for His Creation. I do not need your permission to recognize that, but if you want the law to reflect your values, you are precisely denying permission. An imposition of values is clearly coming from your direction, whether you try to dismiss the idea or not.

Why do you trust man to carry out God's justice and figure out what these coercive anti-liberty laws should be? Isn't man imperfect? Isn't God supposed to judge us ultimately? We really should just leave justice up to God, I think. Unless someone violates my rights, in which case I can defense myself or transfer that right to the state to defend myself. I don't have the right to force gay people not to have sex, therefore I don't have the right to tell the state to force gay people not to have sex.
 
None of your links encourage imposing US economic or military force against another nation, none of them. The blogs contain very little commentary, which I find rather dull, and generally link or quote another source concerning a gay related issue.

You seem to think it is wrong to TALK about another countries policies, I disagree. There is nothing wrong with TALKING but there is a problem with imposing force on another country.

You talking about fighting, but you can fight with words and I have yet to see GOProud advocate using economic or military force against anyone.


Gay group presses Obama to stand up to Iran

New group tries to convince Cheney to run in 2012
"The 2012 race for the Republican nomination for President will be about much more then who will be the party's standard bearer against Barack Obama, the race is about the heart and soul of the GOP," said Christopher Barron [GOProud Chairman of the Board], one of the organizers of the Draft Cheney movement. "There is only one person in our party with the experience, political courage and unwavering commitment to the values that made our party strong – and that person is Dick Cheney."
Read a good commentary here.

What more can you possibly ask for. This group has not even been around for a year ... but already they shout the neo-con slogans. They worship the neo-con idols. Even without the "I'm a Neo-Con" pin on their lapel ... they're still neo-cons.
 
the comments from some of you young people on this forum underscore EXACTLY what I'm talkin about..

You have all been so corrupted by modern society that you can't even see it. Moral standards that were in place for THOUSANDS OF YEARS before you were even born were only overturned in the past 40 years.

These mores existed for a reason. They served as the basis for the formation of stable families and stable communities.

You fools who scoff at what has happened to our society really think that all we need is Austrian Economics and everything will be ok?

Look around.....half the damn country is medicated or addicted to booze, drugs etc. All trying to fill the emptiness inside...an emptiness caused by a dgenerate society that thinks "happiness" is to be found in material things and easy sex instead of faith in a higher power, stable relationships and traditional families.

50% divorce.....young people who never marry or have kids.....herpes, AIDS, screwed up emotional development, abortions, perversions, depression......

How's that sexual revolution thingey workin out for ya?

Yes, for thousands of years society has been working just fine and ALL OF A SUDDEN there were social problems.

Honestly, you're just an ignoramus. We know that for thousands of years, women and children were treated as subhuman sources of labor and sexual abuse. For thousands of years, there was no such thing as "childhood." Children were exposed to levels of violence and sexual abuse to a far greater degree than they are in modern day America (which has fewer incidents of child abuse than most "traditional" cultures in current times).

For thousands of years there was slavery, genocide, the use of rape as a weapon of war, terrible living conditions, virtually no knowledge of the causes of disease or the traumatizing effects of child abuse on children, and all sorts of terrible, terrible things based on a far more debauched system of morality than has ever been advocated by anyone who favors homosexual liberation.

It's people like you who are the greatest threat to human happiness. So ignorant that you hold the cult beliefs and mythology of a bronze age society as an undeniable truth, and so lacking in empathy you cannot see that your own judgmental and absolutist attitude is far more dangerous than sodomy between consenting adults ever was.

What's worse, divorce or arranged marriages? You really think that "traditional values" are so great, why don't you arrange the marriages of your children? Why don't you do what was always done in these "traditional societies" which is to perform abortions in secret at extreme risk to the woman? What about all the emotional trauma suffered by the victims of your sick absolutist morality? The homosexuals tormented, beaten, and murdered by people who shared your demented world-view - is there suffering immaterial to you? Who do you care about anyway? People like you? People who share your personal sexual and cultural values? How fitting for a person who subscribes to the ancient rambling myths of a band of desert nomads to subscribe to a tribal mentality.

You think depression, or the wide-spread use of narcotics is a NEW thing? Like I said before, you're simply ignorant of history and the fact that the things you are complaining about (as if it is the result of the fact that we treat homosexuality as exactly what it is - just another form of sexual fetish) not only existed in ALL previous societies, but also existed to a GREATER degree.

You can take your "traditional values" bullshit and shove it up your ass. Go join the fucking Taliban, I'm sure you'd be accepted with open arms as long as you grow a beard and decide that a different set of ancient scribblings about a sky-god is more appealing.
 
Sure can't argue with your post. That is what happened to the Roman empire, took them 1000 years to fall.

America will fall in less than 300.

Seems society can never learn from history, only repeat it.

Hahaha

"The Roman Empire collapsed due to the degenerate sexual morality of its population" -An actual person
 

Gay group presses Obama to stand up to Iran

New group tries to convince Cheney to run in 2012

Read a good commentary here.

What more can you possibly ask for. This group has not even been around for a year ... but already they shout the neo-con slogans. They worship the neo-con idols. Even without the "I'm a Neo-Con" pin on their lapel ... they're still neo-cons.

Thank you :) I posted earlier that I did not whether they were neocon or not but that I could not see real proof on their website. I did send an email yesterday expressing interest and asking for clarification on their foreign policy stance. They have not replied to me but if they saw a bunch of site hits from RPF, I bet they are hesitant to reply to me :P

It is apparent from the links you have provided that their leader is undeniably a neocon. That simple proof is all I asked for. I refuse to pass judgment on someone until I have proof. Not proof by association or red flags, these are just clues we see that keep us alert. Thanks!
 
Here's the good news.

When all of these bigoted and ignorant social conservatives die off (and based on their average age, it won't be too long), the next generation will be able to build a much more tolerate and sophisticated society. One that doesn't harp about morality because of a some ancient mythology but understands that rules and morals should be based on scientific evidence and should be developed democratically.

Studies show over and over again that the 18-30 year old demographic overwhelmingly disapproves of the social conservative view of homosexuality. Very similar to views about gender, race, religion, etc growing more tolerant over time despite the best efforts of the bigoted ignoramuses who are too caught up defending their own outdated views in their concocted culture war to realize the damage they are doing to society's development.
 
Yes, for thousands of years society has been working just fine and ALL OF A SUDDEN there were social problems.

Honestly, you're just an ignoramus. We know that for thousands of years, women and children were treated as subhuman sources of labor and sexual abuse. For thousands of years, there was no such thing as "childhood." Children were exposed to levels of violence and sexual abuse to a far greater degree than they are in modern day America (which has fewer incidents of child abuse than most "traditional" cultures in current times).

For thousands of years there was slavery, genocide, the use of rape as a weapon of war, terrible living conditions, virtually no knowledge of the causes of disease or the traumatizing effects of child abuse on children, and all sorts of terrible, terrible things based on a far more debauched system of morality than has ever been advocated by anyone who favors homosexual liberation.

It's people like you who are the greatest threat to human happiness. So ignorant that you hold the cult beliefs and mythology of a bronze age society as an undeniable truth, and so lacking in empathy you cannot see that your own judgmental and absolutist attitude is far more dangerous than sodomy between consenting adults ever was.

What's worse, divorce or arranged marriages? You really think that "traditional values" are so great, why don't you arrange the marriages of your children? Why don't you do what was always done in these "traditional societies" which is to perform abortions in secret at extreme risk to the woman? What about all the emotional trauma suffered by the victims of your sick absolutist morality? The homosexuals tormented, beaten, and murdered by people who shared your demented world-view - is there suffering immaterial to you? Who do you care about anyway? People like you? People who share your personal sexual and cultural values? How fitting for a person who subscribes to the ancient rambling myths of a band of desert nomads to subscribe to a tribal mentality.

You think depression, or the wide-spread use of narcotics is a NEW thing? Like I said before, you're simply ignorant of history and the fact that the things you are complaining about (as if it is the result of the fact that we treat homosexuality as exactly what it is - just another form of sexual fetish) not only existed in ALL previous societies, but also existed to a GREATER degree.

You can take your "traditional values" bullshit and shove it up your ass. Go join the fucking Taliban, I'm sure you'd be accepted with open arms as long as you grow a beard and decide that a different set of ancient scribblings about a sky-god is more appealing.

max said:

I can see the future.
 
Yes, for thousands of years society has been working just fine and ALL OF A SUDDEN there were social problems.

Honestly, you're just an ignoramus. We know that for thousands of years, women and children were treated as subhuman sources of labor and sexual abuse. For thousands of years, there was no such thing as "childhood." Children were exposed to levels of violence and sexual abuse to a far greater degree than they are in modern day America (which has fewer incidents of child abuse than most "traditional" cultures in current times).

For thousands of years there was slavery, genocide, the use of rape as a weapon of war, terrible living conditions, virtually no knowledge of the causes of disease or the traumatizing effects of child abuse on children, and all sorts of terrible, terrible things based on a far more debauched system of morality than has ever been advocated by anyone who favors homosexual liberation.

It's people like you who are the greatest threat to human happiness. So ignorant that you hold the cult beliefs and mythology of a bronze age society as an undeniable truth, and so lacking in empathy you cannot see that your own judgmental and absolutist attitude is far more dangerous than sodomy between consenting adults ever was.

What's worse, divorce or arranged marriages? You really think that "traditional values" are so great, why don't you arrange the marriages of your children? Why don't you do what was always done in these "traditional societies" which is to perform abortions in secret at extreme risk to the woman? What about all the emotional trauma suffered by the victims of your sick absolutist morality? The homosexuals tormented, beaten, and murdered by people who shared your demented world-view - is there suffering immaterial to you? Who do you care about anyway? People like you? People who share your personal sexual and cultural values? How fitting for a person who subscribes to the ancient rambling myths of a band of desert nomads to subscribe to a tribal mentality.

You think depression, or the wide-spread use of narcotics is a NEW thing? Like I said before, you're simply ignorant of history and the fact that the things you are complaining about (as if it is the result of the fact that we treat homosexuality as exactly what it is - just another form of sexual fetish) not only existed in ALL previous societies, but also existed to a GREATER degree.

You can take your "traditional values" bullshit and shove it up your ass. Go join the fucking Taliban, I'm sure you'd be accepted with open arms as long as you grow a beard and decide that a different set of ancient scribblings about a sky-god is more appealing.

Your attempt to associate every human atrocity to sofia's comments is as equally invalid as her historical generalizations.
 
Here's the good news.

When all of these bigoted and ignorant social conservatives die off (and based on their average age, it won't be too long), the next generation will be able to build a much more tolerate and sophisticated society. One that doesn't harp about morality because of a some ancient mythology but understands that rules and morals should be based on scientific evidence and should be developed democratically.

Studies show over and over again that the 18-30 year old demographic overwhelmingly disapproves of the social conservative view of homosexuality. Very similar to views about gender, race, religion, etc growing more tolerant over time despite the best efforts of the bigoted ignoramuses who are too caught up defending their own outdated views in their concocted culture war to realize the damage they are doing to society's development.

*shrugs* I don't need them to die off. I think requiring that society be tolerant, even in their own minds, of everyone else in it... is no better than requiring society to ostracize homosexuals, or those of another race, or whoever. I just need freedom to apply to everyone. Think what you like, but legislate less. Way, way less.

* * *

Oh and sofia/max has done what they often do: lob a grenade, and run. I doubt that particular character will answer anyone personally, but I've been wrong before.
 
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Why is it you get banned for saying something negative about another's religion but you can throw the word "fag" around with no consequences?

I don't think you should get banned for either, but the hypocrisy here is off the wall.
 
Here's the good news.

When all of these bigoted and ignorant social conservatives die off (and based on their average age, it won't be too long), the next generation will be able to build a much more tolerate and sophisticated society. One that doesn't harp about morality because of a some ancient mythology but understands that rules and morals should be based on scientific evidence and should be developed democratically.

Studies show over and over again that the 18-30 year old demographic overwhelmingly disapproves of the social conservative view of homosexuality. Very similar to views about gender, race, religion, etc growing more tolerant over time despite the best efforts of the bigoted ignoramuses who are too caught up defending their own outdated views in their concocted culture war to realize the damage they are doing to society's development.

That morals should be based on scientific evidence is absurd. How could I possibly find scientific evidence that it is wrong to murder somebody or that it wrong to steal from somebody? That they should be developed democratically is an intriguing position since most advocates of issues such as gay marriage are unwilling to let it go to a vote but rather push for judicial changes.
 
Why is it you get banned for saying something negative about another's religion but you can throw the word "fag" around with no consequences?

I don't think you should get banned for either, but the hypocrisy here is off the wall.

I think it is ok because sophia is trangendered. She used to be a man named max.
 
Your attempt to associate every human atrocity to sofia's comments is as equally invalid as her historical generalizations.

sofia is invoking the status of human society for "thousands of years" as evidence of the superiority of her traditional morality, and I'm simply pointing out that ACTUAL HISTORY does not bear her out at all on that point
 
sofia is invoking the status of human society for "thousands of years" as evidence of the superiority of her traditional morality, and I'm simply pointing out that ACTUAL HISTORY does not bear her out at all on that point

Yeah... I did that various pages ago, too :)
 
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